Question about BB, A, AA etc.

[Anonymous]

Hanging out at the PVS October Open this weekend and studying times to pass the time. I’m noticing there are very few times being swum better than BB and essentially no AAA or AAAA times at all. In an event of 100 or more swimmers in the 11-12s, there might be 3-4 A times and perhaps 1-2 AA times. Sometimes there are no AA times. I thought A was supposed to be top 15% and AA top 8%. What’s going on?

[Anonymous]

That seems odd that there are so few AA, but overall, it’s an early season meet and super fast times are often achieved at champs meet and not in Oct. it’s also possible that the more competitive kids passed on this meet or aren’t swimming their best events at a meet like this. They save those for when they’ve trained more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That seems odd that there are so few AA, but overall, it’s an early season meet and super fast times are often achieved at champs meet and not in Oct. it’s also possible that the more competitive kids passed on this meet or aren’t swimming their best events at a meet like this. They save those for when they’ve trained more.

The opens can be a real slog. If someone doesn't need the time or the experience, I know I'd opt out if I could.

[Anonymous]

It depends on the age group and the site. We were at Claude Moore and the 11-12 session was absolutely loaded with multiple AAA times. Kids that placed 10th at CM would have been in the top 3 at the other sites.

[Anonymous]

I didn't see RMSC on any of the psych sheets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I didn't see RMSC on any of the psych sheets.

They opted out en masse. They're hosting their own meet next weekend. Same with Makos and OCCS skipping and doing different meets. Open meets just means no PVS team can be turned away, not that they all have to go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I didn't see RMSC on any of the psych sheets.

RMSC never goes to any of the PVS Open meets. They pretty much host all their own meets and occasionally invite small MD teams to their meets (TIBU is going to RMSCs meet this coming weekend).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hanging out at the PVS October Open this weekend and studying times to pass the time. I’m noticing there are very few times being swum better than BB and essentially no AAA or AAAA times at all. In an event of 100 or more swimmers in the 11-12s, there might be 3-4 A times and perhaps 1-2 AA times. Sometimes there are no AA times. I thought A was supposed to be top 15% and AA top 8%. What’s going on?

I also don't think A and AA correspond to the same percentiles in the younger age groups. At the spring championship meets an AA time is close to making finals in the younger groups, but in the older groups everyone has an AA time or better. Consider for example that there are 21 AA or better times in 100 free out of 1,176 11-12 boys -- https://swimmerstats.com/strokes.php?lsc=PV&stroke=1&code=X&sex=M&age=11-12&course=Y&distance=100 -- which puts the AA cut line at the top 1.79% of swimmers. In the same event, there are 249 AA or better times for 17-18 boys out of a much smaller pool or swimmers -- https://swimmerstats.com/strokes.php?lsc=PV&course=Y&code=X&stroke=1&distance=100&sex=M&age=17-18 -- so in this case AA corresponds to the top 34.7% of swimmers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It depends on the age group and the site. We were at Claude Moore and the 11-12 session was absolutely loaded with multiple AAA times. Kids that placed 10th at CM would have been in the top 3 at the other sites.

Interesting. What clubs were swimming Claude Moore?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hanging out at the PVS October Open this weekend and studying times to pass the time. I’m noticing there are very few times being swum better than BB and essentially no AAA or AAAA times at all. In an event of 100 or more swimmers in the 11-12s, there might be 3-4 A times and perhaps 1-2 AA times. Sometimes there are no AA times. I thought A was supposed to be top 15% and AA top 8%. What’s going on?

I also don't think A and AA correspond to the same percentiles in the younger age groups. At the spring championship meets an AA time is close to making finals in the younger groups, but in the older groups everyone has an AA time or better. Consider for example that there are 21 AA or better times in 100 free out of 1,176 11-12 boys -- https://swimmerstats.com/strokes.php?lsc=PV&stroke=1&code=X&sex=M&age=11-12&course=Y&distance=100 -- which puts the AA cut line at the top 1.79% of swimmers. In the same event, there are 249 AA or better times for 17-18 boys out of a much smaller pool or swimmers -- https://swimmerstats.com/strokes.php?lsc=PV&course=Y&code=X&stroke=1&distance=100&sex=M&age=17-18 -- so in this case AA corresponds to the top 34.7% of swimmers.

The 11-12 AA cut is 58.69, right? So actually only 8 of the 1176 11-12 boys in PVS have that cut. I guess AA is not top 8%, or PVS has a really bad crop of swimmers in that group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It depends on the age group and the site. We were at Claude Moore and the 11-12 session was absolutely loaded with multiple AAA times. Kids that placed 10th at CM would have been in the top 3 at the other sites.

Interesting. What clubs were swimming Claude Moore?

NCAP West, NCAP CM and Machine’s VA sites were the top teams there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hanging out at the PVS October Open this weekend and studying times to pass the time. I’m noticing there are very few times being swum better than BB and essentially no AAA or AAAA times at all. In an event of 100 or more swimmers in the 11-12s, there might be 3-4 A times and perhaps 1-2 AA times. Sometimes there are no AA times. I thought A was supposed to be top 15% and AA top 8%. What’s going on?

I also don't think A and AA correspond to the same percentiles in the younger age groups. At the spring championship meets an AA time is close to making finals in the younger groups, but in the older groups everyone has an AA time or better. Consider for example that there are 21 AA or better times in 100 free out of 1,176 11-12 boys -- https://swimmerstats.com/strokes.php?lsc=PV&stroke=1&code=X&sex=M&age=11-12&course=Y&distance=100 -- which puts the AA cut line at the top 1.79% of swimmers. In the same event, there are 249 AA or better times for 17-18 boys out of a much smaller pool or swimmers -- https://swimmerstats.com/strokes.php?lsc=PV&course=Y&code=X&stroke=1&distance=100&sex=M&age=17-18 -- so in this case AA corresponds to the top 34.7% of swimmers.

Just an FYI, swimmerstats is not a great site because it routinely misses meets. For example a bunch of NCAP sites went to a meet in Charlottesville last weekend and that meet is not on that site, last weekend’s Harvest Moon meet is also not on there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hanging out at the PVS October Open this weekend and studying times to pass the time. I’m noticing there are very few times being swum better than BB and essentially no AAA or AAAA times at all. In an event of 100 or more swimmers in the 11-12s, there might be 3-4 A times and perhaps 1-2 AA times. Sometimes there are no AA times. I thought A was supposed to be top 15% and AA top 8%. What’s going on?

I also don't think A and AA correspond to the same percentiles in the younger age groups. At the spring championship meets an AA time is close to making finals in the younger groups, but in the older groups everyone has an AA time or better. Consider for example that there are 21 AA or better times in 100 free out of 1,176 11-12 boys -- https://swimmerstats.com/strokes.php?lsc=PV&stroke=1&code=X&sex=M&age=11-12&course=Y&distance=100 -- which puts the AA cut line at the top 1.79% of swimmers. In the same event, there are 249 AA or better times for 17-18 boys out of a much smaller pool or swimmers -- https://swimmerstats.com/strokes.php?lsc=PV&course=Y&code=X&stroke=1&distance=100&sex=M&age=17-18 -- so in this case AA corresponds to the top 34.7% of swimmers.

The 11-12 AA cut is 58.69, right? So actually only 8 of the 1176 11-12 boys in PVS have that cut. I guess AA is not top 8%, or PVS has a really bad crop of swimmers in that group.

AA is definitely less than top 8% for 12&u. Maybe for 13/14 it's closer to top 8% though. At 14&u champs last spring, the breakdown of boys AA times in 100 free went like this 10&u - 21, 11/12 - 18, and 13/14 - 70. AA times are just hard to come by for 12&u.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hanging out at the PVS October Open this weekend and studying times to pass the time. I’m noticing there are very few times being swum better than BB and essentially no AAA or AAAA times at all. In an event of 100 or more swimmers in the 11-12s, there might be 3-4 A times and perhaps 1-2 AA times. Sometimes there are no AA times. I thought A was supposed to be top 15% and AA top 8%. What’s going on?

I also don't think A and AA correspond to the same percentiles in the younger age groups. At the spring championship meets an AA time is close to making finals in the younger groups, but in the older groups everyone has an AA time or better. Consider for example that there are 21 AA or better times in 100 free out of 1,176 11-12 boys -- https://swimmerstats.com/strokes.php?lsc=PV&stroke=1&code=X&sex=M&age=11-12&course=Y&distance=100 -- which puts the AA cut line at the top 1.79% of swimmers. In the same event, there are 249 AA or better times for 17-18 boys out of a much smaller pool or swimmers -- https://swimmerstats.com/strokes.php?lsc=PV&course=Y&code=X&stroke=1&distance=100&sex=M&age=17-18 -- so in this case AA corresponds to the top 34.7% of swimmers.

The 11-12 AA cut is 58.69, right? So actually only 8 of the 1176 11-12 boys in PVS have that cut. I guess AA is not top 8%, or PVS has a really bad crop of swimmers in that group.

It hard to make that assessment at this point in the season, I’m sure there were many more 11-12s that had the AA last season but they have aged up since the end of last SC season. Last SC season 57 11-12 boys in PVS hit the AA time or better. Swimstandards site is good for this kind of analysis.

https://swimstandards.com/rankings/100fr-scy-11-12-male-pv?u_season=2324&u_season_start=2023&u_season_end=2024&page=3

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hanging out at the PVS October Open this weekend and studying times to pass the time. I’m noticing there are very few times being swum better than BB and essentially no AAA or AAAA times at all. In an event of 100 or more swimmers in the 11-12s, there might be 3-4 A times and perhaps 1-2 AA times. Sometimes there are no AA times. I thought A was supposed to be top 15% and AA top 8%. What’s going on?

I also don't think A and AA correspond to the same percentiles in the younger age groups. At the spring championship meets an AA time is close to making finals in the younger groups, but in the older groups everyone has an AA time or better. Consider for example that there are 21 AA or better times in 100 free out of 1,176 11-12 boys -- https://swimmerstats.com/strokes.php?lsc=PV&stroke=1&code=X&sex=M&age=11-12&course=Y&distance=100 -- which puts the AA cut line at the top 1.79% of swimmers. In the same event, there are 249 AA or better times for 17-18 boys out of a much smaller pool or swimmers -- https://swimmerstats.com/strokes.php?lsc=PV&course=Y&code=X&stroke=1&distance=100&sex=M&age=17-18 -- so in this case AA corresponds to the top 34.7% of swimmers.

The 11-12 AA cut is 58.69, right? So actually only 8 of the 1176 11-12 boys in PVS have that cut. I guess AA is not top 8%, or PVS has a really bad crop of swimmers in that group.

It hard to make that assessment at this point in the season, I’m sure there were many more 11-12s that had the AA last season but they have aged up since the end of last SC season. Last SC season 57 11-12 boys in PVS hit the AA time or better. Swimstandards site is good for this kind of analysis.

https://swimstandards.com/rankings/100fr-scy-11-12-male-pv?u_season=2324&u_season_start=2023&u_season_end=2024&page=3

Good find. So the breakdown looks like 3x as many AA times by 13-14.

154 boys in 13-14 AG hit AA in 100 free last year
57 boys in 11-12 AG hit AA in 100 free last year
53 boys in 9-10 AG hit AA in 100 free last year