Is there some way to prevent financial actions by an individual?

[Anonymous]

My mom is 80, and my stepfather is 84. He's slowly losing his ability to remember and make decisions, and we've seen the impact in that he easily falls for telemarketing scams. He answers the phone and chats with people, and on three occasions, he has signed up for contracts from scammers and whatnot. They've had to change credit cards twice this year due to scams.

Is there some way that we can limit his ability to make financial decisions? Some sort of power of attorney or something, or would it take some court determination that he is not competent to make financial decisions? Sorry if I don't know the term of art but was just wondering what options might be out there.

[Anonymous]

My father in law does this too. It’s maddening the number of hours DH has to take to fix the messes he gets himself into.

[Anonymous]

We faced the same issue with my Dad. I've written here before. Two of the major incidents involved him making thousands of small donations (like $5-25) to various political campaigns then added up to almost $100,000 in just a few months, and about a month ago he fell victim to a scam where he pulled $31k out of his bank account in cash and literally waited for a car to pull up and my dad put the money into the backseat through an open window. He's had other "smaller" issues where he's blown a few thousand here, a few thousand there--mostly signing contracts for things like new apartment rentals, changing his mind a few days later, and then needing to pay thousands to break the lease.

Basically it takes a court order that he is mentally incompetent, and that is really tough to get. You'll need a doctor to agree and write a letter.

[Anonymous]

Our experience is, your parent is considered cognitively fit until deemed otherwise and just a dementia screen alone doesn't always catch the slide. So, if the elder refuses to turn over the reigns to you or have some controls put in place, you cannot do anything. It's maddening to see how much money flowing from my once stingy mother as relatives tell sob stories and contractors over-charge and even neighbors send their kids begging for whatever fundraiser because now she will write a check for thousands just to impress. I have researched from every angle and I cannot force a full cognitive evaluation. Sibling is useless because she has mom writing her checks too. Having been through eldercare with dad, and inlaws I don't have the bandwidth for the drama that will ensue if I try to start an elder financial abuse investigation because in her mind I am the bad one for questioning anything. All I can do is hope the relatives and neighbors will pay her back by looking out for her. I also have a expert checking on her to assess need, but that person cannot do anything until she shows enough signs of being cognitively incapable.

[Anonymous]

Have everything managed by a bank. Give said individual an allowance of $100-500 a month and anything over that must be co-signed by bank. Bills are paid by bank, groceries etc go into credit card. Credit card bill is reviewed by bank It protects the individual and the family assets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Have everything managed by a bank. Give said individual an allowance of $100-500 a month and anything over that must be co-signed by bank. Bills are paid by bank, groceries etc go into credit card. Credit card bill is reviewed by bank It protects the individual and the family assets.

Were you able to get a court order that the elderly individual is mentally incompetent? Or if not, what arrangement is this under?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Have everything managed by a bank. Give said individual an allowance of $100-500 a month and anything over that must be co-signed by bank. Bills are paid by bank, groceries etc go into credit card. Credit card bill is reviewed by bank It protects the individual and the family assets.

How much does a service like this cost? I've never heard of something like this done by a bank--do all banks do this?

And really, this only works if the elderly person agrees to it. Most people are not going to willingly allow themselves to forfeit control over their finances and only have access to $100/month!

[Anonymous]

We convinced said individual that it was for their safety and to protect assets. Emphasized the convenience. The bank also invests money well so already paying for services. I’d recommend a trust.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My mom is 80, and my stepfather is 84. He's slowly losing his ability to remember and make decisions, and we've seen the impact in that he easily falls for telemarketing scams. He answers the phone and chats with people, and on three occasions, he has signed up for contracts from scammers and whatnot. They've had to change credit cards twice this year due to scams.

Is there some way that we can limit his ability to make financial decisions? Some sort of power of attorney or something, or would it take some court determination that he is not competent to make financial decisions? Sorry if I don't know the term of art but was just wondering what options might be out there.

Is your mom willing to take away his credit cards and checks. This seems like the easiest and most immediate solution.

[Anonymous]

^ This. Insist that your SF does not have any credit cards in his possession nor is he able to access them.

If he balks at that, get a pre-paid Visa card with limited funds on it that he can use for incidentals.

Also see if you can set phones to automatically go into voice mail and simply tell him he CANNOT answer the phone - let it go into voicemail.

If he balks at that, see if their community's law enforcement (police, sheriff, etc.) has an office that deals with elder financial fraud. Many of them do. Perhaps they can impress upon him that what he is doing is very, very dangerous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^ This. Insist that your SF does not have any credit cards in his possession nor is he able to access them.

If he balks at that, get a pre-paid Visa card with limited funds on it that he can use for incidentals.

Also see if you can set phones to automatically go into voice mail and simply tell him he CANNOT answer the phone - let it go into voicemail.

If he balks at that, see if their community's law enforcement (police, sheriff, etc.) has an office that deals with elder financial fraud. Many of them do. Perhaps they can impress upon him that what he is doing is very, very dangerous.

What you are describing (cutting off his access to his own money, cutting off his ability to receive phone calls) can be perceived as elder abuse.
Unless/until the step dad is officially diagnosed and determined by a court to be mentally incompetent AND OP is assigned as his guardian, she has no right to do any of this and could get in a lot of trouble for even attempting it.

[Anonymous]

You can ask him if you can help make smart financial decisions. Those could entail:

Putting a credit freeze so that no one can fraudulently open cards in his name

Buying him a phone that reads out the caller, or sends to voicemail anyone that is not on a trusted list of contacts

Putting notes/placards around about common elder scams

https://www.consumerfinance.gov/consumer-tools/educator-tools/resources-for-older-adults/protecting-against-fraud/#resources-for-caregivers-and-service-providers

https://pueblo.gpo.gov/CFPBPubs/CFPBPubs.php?NavCode=XB&Sub2ID=256&CatID=39&PHPSESSID=ul4do0jq6rnjushq8dcrkqt5qa

Ask if you can have read-only access to their account transactions, or set up a “convenience” or “agency” account (which permits some co-management)

Ask if they’d be willing to sign a limited power of attorney for assistance with financial matters

Then, if you think you need more, you can look into a power of attorney (a durable POA doesn’t become invalid once a person is incompetent). But at this point you’d be asking them to submit to your judgement—that it would supersede theirs.

But many old folks have agnosia about cognitive impairment, and money troubles/scams are frequently the first sign. It is worth trying persuasive methods first, but you may need a more formal process.

Here’s Maryland’s standard POA:

https://www.mdcourts.gov/legalhelp/lifeplanningandpowerofattorney

[Anonymous]

After my dad died I helped my mom move her money to over to an account with a financial planner. He charged a smalll percentage but his gains have outpaced the gains we were making ourselves so he basically pays for himself. At this firm you need to call or email (that they’ll follow up with a call) in order to get money withdrawn. It adds a layer of complexity. My mom did have a small savings and checking account that we kept about $1000 in before she ultimately became unable to manage her money.

[Anonymous]

OP does your step dad have children of his own from a previous relationship?
How long have he and your mom been married? Are their finances completely intertwined?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ This. Insist that your SF does not have any credit cards in his possession nor is he able to access them.

If he balks at that, get a pre-paid Visa card with limited funds on it that he can use for incidentals.

Also see if you can set phones to automatically go into voice mail and simply tell him he CANNOT answer the phone - let it go into voicemail.

If he balks at that, see if their community's law enforcement (police, sheriff, etc.) has an office that deals with elder financial fraud. Many of them do. Perhaps they can impress upon him that what he is doing is very, very dangerous.

What you are describing (cutting off his access to his own money, cutting off his ability to receive phone calls) can be perceived as elder abuse.
Unless/until the step dad is officially diagnosed and determined by a court to be mentally incompetent AND OP is assigned as his guardian, she has no right to do any of this and could get in a lot of trouble for even attempting it.

So what if it is?
Is some pig butcher going to manage to open a case?