Dog witching hour agony
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Anonymous
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We’ve had a 18-month old rescue dog for 3 months, and have a pretty good handle on his exercise, training and socialization needs. He’s getting a good amount of physical and mental exercise during the day, balanced with rest and naps because we found that he sometimes got overstimulated. He’s a mutt with strong herding/hunting traits and genetics. We are experienced dog owners and rescuers and have had some really tough dogs along the way.
Even with that experience, our evenings right now are a nightmare. From 6-10 pm we can’t walk him because he’ll come home, have to pee in the backyard, and then do psychotic zoomies. If we go in the backyard during that time, he’ll flip out and has grabbed at shifts or cuffs until they ripped. If he’s inside and starts playing after dinner and we engage in a ball game or try to do a sniffing training game, he’ll get worked up and race around the house or he’ll start stealing stuff that isn’t his (especially shoes!) and trying to chew them like toys. If we try go to bed before he decides it’s bedtime, he’ll race around the house trying to grabbed whatever object we last touched. We’re getting around it by reducing evening exercise and games and by giving him a really defined area to play with new and interesting toys in the evening. And if he doesn’t calm down, we’ll crate him. But what are we missing? When the school year rolls around, some of his daytime exercise will have to be pushed to the evening, so I worry the witching hour will only expand. My sense is that he’s young, energetic, doesn’t like when people go to different spaces at night and hates when the fun stops. We also think that the 6 months this dog spent in the shelter affected him in ways we’ll never fully understand but possibly were especially bad at nighttime. Is there something in our routine we’re missing that could fix his behavior or is this normal?! |
Anonymous
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He's completely overtired and overstimulated, OP. You need to decrease whatever's going on in his day, so that he can face the evening with more equanimity. And use the crate! It's not a punishment, it's a safe space. Does he like his crate? I train my dog and fosters when they're puppies to like their crate. I put their favorite treats in there, their favorite blankies, etc. For terrified new puppies, I cover the wire crate with a blanket to replicate the den-like atmosphere. |
Anonymous
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wait... "experienced dog owner" leaves dog unattended in backyard, post-walk, because he "has to pee"? And "if he doesn't calm down" you'll crate him (after he destroys your stuff)?
Oh... Oh, no... Crate your dog. As PP said, much more politely, it's in their best interest. Every time you allow this zoomies crap, you endorse it. And then you make the crate a punishment because it's used as a last-resort instead of a first step. Everything. Ev.Er.Y.Thing with a rescue starts with their crate. They leave the crate to go immediately outside to pee, then they do their activities, then they go back to the crate. Slowly, you extend the time outside of the crate, once they stabilize into a routine. It is the same for shelter/rescue dogs. There really aren't any exceptions. The very first thing a responsible dog owner does is crate train their dog. Whatever experience you think you have is insufficient and you need to (re)educate yourself, quickly, for your dog's sake. Your dog is going mental because he doesn't have the leadership and routines he needs you to make for him. This is on you. |
Anonymous
Thank you. I know you’re scolding me and think I’m a moron, but your advice is actually helpful- no sarcasm. Our past rescues all had leash reactivity and severe confinement anxiety, so we are coming from that mindset with regards to how and when we use a leash and a crate. We also had really specific requirements from the shelter about how we should use our crate because our dog had experienced injuries and issues in one during his travels from one shelter to another and during his confinement at the last shelter. He came to us with a raw nose and muzzle from trying to bite his way out of crates and enclosures. I can see that it has affected how we are approaching this dog and that we need to restart the crate work from a different perspective. |
Anonymous
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This is why people buy puppies from responsible breeders. You don't know what his experience was before you got him.
How much night time and day time sleep does he get? Are naps in the crate and at the same time every day (like 1-4)? |
Anonymous
Thank you for being teachable. I'm sure your dog will thank you, too. Good luck! |
Anonymous
| We have a rescue who has never been crate trained. He has his own challenges, but a crate/no crate has zero factor. He's chill at night and even with a herding background, just picks one of us to guard. Just pointing out that this advice isn't universal. |
Anonymous
Even a puppy from a "responsible breeder" (no such thing in this scenario, but I'll play along) is going to need the exact same crate protocol. It may be slightly easier, because a responsible breeder would've already crate-trained the dog somewhat, and it would simply be a matter of acclimating the dog to a new crate in a new location. But the protocol is the same: the dog is crated any time it's not being actively handled. The dog leaves the crate and immediately goes outside to do its business, and is then kept on leash, actively observed, for an age-appropriate amount of time, to do supervised/scheduled activities before being returned to its crate. Purebred puppies need the exact same training. You either know it and do it, or you don't (and then you blame the puppy, who may end up at a shelter, where there are plenty of dogs with exactly this sort of mishandling as their previous life experience). |
Anonymous
You lead by admitting you've not crate-trained your dog, so how could you possibly know this? 
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Anonymous
| OP we got a rescue at the start of June. He is about 2-3 yrs old and sometimes gets the zoomies if there are more than the usual number of people in the house (unrelated to exercise, food, training or entertainment). I find these things help, I say "oh no, calm down now". We sit, we encourage him to sit with us and cuddle (calmly) or we give him a chew stick to focus on. All these help. Your dog is different but may respond similarly. Good luck. |
Anonymous
This is crazy but I think you figured out my dog’s trigger (OP here). Our dog does great when it’s just me and DD and he follows our routine calmly and doesn’t have zoomies at night. But DH has a pretty erratic schedule and travels 1-3 weeks/month. We also had a relative staying with us for the month of June. The common thread with both our relative and my DH is that their presence seems to trigger the crazy behavior/zoomies from the dog. DH had to travel abruptly a day after we brought the dog home and wasn’t home for the first 9 days. Now I’m worried that the dog believes that DH is the world’s least responsive wayward sheep… |
Anonymous
Do not give the dog a chew stick or other reward for this behavior. Leash your dog, and have the other person hold it and put your dog in a sit. People are not sheep. They're all superior to your dog, at all times (including/especially children). Train your dog by putting the people in an authority position and having them give commands. When the dog is quiet, calm, and responsive, then and only then does it get rewards/treats. |
Anonymous
pp you are responding to - we've had similar things going on in our house, DH traveling, an aunt staying etc. So long as their usual human is doing the usual things, I think it helps stabilize them. Because these are rescues and we don't know the chaos they lived in previously just being patient and calm is the way forward. There's a bunch of folks on this thread who think the dogs should be treated like police dogs or something. They have no idea. |
Anonymous
Ha ha! I'm 18:46. That was funny. Dogs are all nose, and respond differently to different people - it has to do with testosterone and other hormones they smell on them. We have a very masculine, energetic friend who comes to visit sometimes, and our dog goes CRAZY. He responds to whatever he senses in this guest. My son's teen friends (boys) also get a similar, but weaker, response. One of my daughter's friend (girl) gets a different sort of attention - cough - and sometimes it's embarrassing. Anyway. Off he goes in his crate when he starts acting like this. He calms down in there, has a little treat, and when he comes out, he's better behaved. |
Anonymous
| NP. We have a pure breed 18 month old herding dog and most of what you are describing sounds like normal dog behavior (i.e. backyard zoomies at the end of the day/walk, grabbing shoes and things). |