Bog People and Elder Care

[Anonymous]

I was reading about the Windover archaeology discovery and was touched, and saddened, when I read the following:

"...the type of life people lived seven to eight thousand years ago. Apparently, they were more caring and less nomadic than was generally believed. In one case, the skeleton of a woman who was more than 50 years old when she died, showed that she had suffered multiple bone fractures several years before her death. Her injuries would have kept her from functioning in a normal way for an extended period. During that time others would have cared for her and assumed the work she would normally have done."

Touched because people thousands of years ago cared and fed an elderly infirm woman, despite how difficult life was and how precious food and resources were. She was not a burden.

Saddened because so many would not do the same today.

[Anonymous]

Many do the same every day. The eldercare I do is a PT job on top of all the other things in my life.

I’m not seeing how your generalization makes sense. That’s just how it seems to you based on your mood or emotions.

Are you depressed?

[Anonymous]

Historically people cared for their elders. In Ireland traditional houses would have a ledge built in to the wall next to the fireplace where an infirm elderly person could rest and keep warm and be part of the daily household activities.

[Anonymous]

Margaret Meade talked about this caring for our frail and injured as a sign of civilization:
“Such signs of healing are never found among the remains of the earliest, fiercest societies. In their skeletons we find clues of violence: a rib pierced by an arrow, a skull crushed by a club. But this healed bone shows that someone must have cared for the injured person—hunted on his behalf, brought him food, served him at personal sacrifice.”

[Anonymous]

She was a burden, that's what makes it meaningful that they were willing to carry thjhe burden.

But they didn't have to do it for as many years as we do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Margaret Meade talked about this caring for our frail and injured as a sign of civilization:
“Such signs of healing are never found among the remains of the earliest, fiercest societies. In their skeletons we find clues of violence: a rib pierced by an arrow, a skull crushed by a club. But this healed bone shows that someone must have cared for the injured person—hunted on his behalf, brought him food, served him at personal sacrifice.”

Consider this - the Windover discovery was fairly recent (1980s) and it is an estimated 2,000 older than other civilizations like Mesopotamia, Egypt, etc.

And yes, some Windover skeletons had signs of violence but others, like this elderly woman and a disabled child, showed signs of long-term care.

[Anonymous]

Because she was part of the household and not off on her own, she was probably able to help with various tasks that didn't require mobility. Not sure what bog people did specifically but in other cultures elders often spun fiber, shelled peas, watched the meal cook on the fire, taught the kids, etc.

I'm not saying they wouldn't have cared for her even if she was incapacitated. I'm saying we tend to forget all the little things that infirm people can do in a community. And there would have been people around to watch her and talk to her, rather than her daughter driving across town to visit after work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She was a burden, that's what makes it meaningful that they were willing to carry thjhe burden.

But they didn't have to do it for as many years as we do.

This.

[Anonymous]

OP are you suggesting that we would allow a 50 YO woman with a broken leg to die in the streets?

[Anonymous]

People also worked from home or relatively close by, and households had many more members that could take turns watching someone. I totally think modern society has a problem with not intrinsically valuing the elderly the way older cultures did, but so many aspects of our current lives make it much harder to take care of elders without burning out. We should have a law where all office jobs can have a mandatory WFH option.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People also worked from home or relatively close by, and households had many more members that could take turns watching someone. I totally think modern society has a problem with not intrinsically valuing the elderly the way older cultures did, but so many aspects of our current lives make it much harder to take care of elders without burning out. We should have a law where all office jobs can have a mandatory WFH option.

People on DCUM always think they have the hardest life. Caring for an injured person while living in a bog with no running water, no indoor plumbing, no wheelchair, or smooth surfaces, no pain medicine. That's not hard! Only DCUM life could possibly be hard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People also worked from home or relatively close by, and households had many more members that could take turns watching someone. I totally think modern society has a problem with not intrinsically valuing the elderly the way older cultures did, but so many aspects of our current lives make it much harder to take care of elders without burning out. We should have a law where all office jobs can have a mandatory WFH option.

People on DCUM always think they have the hardest life. Caring for an injured person while living in a bog with no running water, no indoor plumbing, no wheelchair, or smooth surfaces, no pain medicine. That's not hard! Only DCUM life could possibly be hard.

LOL - Yes, this.

The fact the woman was estimated to be 50 years old is a wonder in itself. People in more "civilized" societies, thousands of years later, didn't even live that long.

Kudos to the Bog People!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP are you suggesting that we would allow a 50 YO woman with a broken leg to die in the streets?

We already are. Get outside the DCUM area and see how many poor elderly women (and men) are living on the streets or in their broken down cars. You might have an eye-opening experience.

If you are only getting $1,000 in Social Security what are your options? These are people who actually worked their whole lives and that's all they are getting. Many communities do not have housing for the elderly poor unless they are physically or mentally infirm.

So yes, we do allow elderly to die in the streets.

[Anonymous]

People always took care of the elderly, but as mentioned, the elderly also participated in the community. In fact childrearing was often the job of the elderly, as the "working age" men were hunting/gathering food and women were cleaning/cooking/doing chores. Nowadays, there are 2 big problems overlapping: (1) there are not enough young (the share of old people is at an all time high) (2) modern medicine has made it so that the body outlasts the mind (contributing to the 1st problem). At no time in history was it the case that one couple had to care for their parents, in-laws, their own kids and then fend for themselves as well. Remember that the retirement age of 65 was instituted b/c average life span was 61.7!

[Anonymous]

"At no time in history was it the case that one couple had to care for their parents, in-laws, their own kids and then fend for themselves as well."

False. In fact, many people are currently caring for multiple generations. As have previous generations.

In my childhood, many families had grandparent(s), parents, and children in the same house. We did, too. My grandfather lived downstairs in our house in an "in-law apartment" until his death. My father built is especially for him.