Official Ebola update thread

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'd like to hear more from returning workers who are abiding by quarantines just because they thing it's the right thing to do.

Here's one man from back in July.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/02/health/ebola-doctor-quarantine/

[Anonymous]

Yesterday health care workers who've worked with Ebola patients in Africa, some of whom are still within the 21 day incubation period, were at the White House. Obama thanked them and shook each one's hand. If there was any danger at all, do you think that would've happened?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:All of you arguing about civil liberties - I don't think there's a single judge in this nation that would not uphold Maine's right to impose a 21 day home quarantine on a returning Ebola health care worker. Not a chance. I don't see this as even a close issue. We just don't have civil liberties fundamentalists on the bench anymore; and even if we do, this is a case where the due process concerns clearly weigh in favor of the state. If someone has another interpretation based on review of actual quarantine caselaw, I'd like to see it.

She is less contagious that a lot of people with HIV spreading it around. The judges need to read biology.

Totally different case. There is a highly rational reason to believe that she will contract a highly contagious (MUCH more contagious than HIV, and much more deadly) disease during the quarantine period.

Really? Do you actually "believe she will contract" Ebola? Based on what? The vast majority of health care workers who have treated people with this disease while using protective gear have not contracted it. So while there may be reason to believe that there's a small possibility that she'll contract the disease, it's not "highly rational" to believe that she WILL, only that she might.

As far as your "much more deadly than HIV statement, let's compare. I'm going to use 2012 statistics for HIV since the 2013 statistics aren't available yet, and since using statistics since the beginning of the epidemic wouldn't be a fair comparison since medication has changed.


HIV diagnoses worldwide in 2012 HIV related deaths in 2012 % Ebola diagnoses worldwide (this epidemic) Ebola deaths (this epidemic) %
2.3 million 1.6 million 70% 10,141 4922 49%

Ebola also has a lower death rate in the US, and a lower R factor which is a measure of how contagious the virus is.

Ebola has a lower death rate when it has been caught early in the U.S. but really the sample size is too small to make any judgments of this type. All we need is one healthcare worker to get it and not seek immediate treatment, and the people they spread it to may not even know they are at risk.

Well, for starters, don't go near anyone who is sick and sweating profusely or bleeding from their orifices, and don't touch any dead bodies. Then you won't catch Ebola in the United States.

Seriously, I don't think you realize how very, very sick people are when they are infectious. They are in extreme pain. Infectious people are not partying at a football game and unwittingly exposing others.

I don't think you have any clue what you are talking about. All it takes is one symptomatic person to go to work and leave a mess in the bathroom that others unwittingly come into contact with.

No, I do know what I am talking about. This is part of my job, actually. An Ebola-infected person isn't going to MAKE it to work. They are going to feel shitty and start running a fever, and then because this is the US, they will know if they had any exposure to West Africa or Ebola, like Spencer, and call 911 and get to the hospital. You are not going to unwittingly run into Ebola in your work bathroom or even in a hospital bathroom. It's just not going to happen.

Right, because people are never in denial and sick people never go to work. If you're the person making policy, we are in trouble.

Not PP, but your ignorance is showing. The point at which people are especially contagious is at the end of the infection. They aren't going to work at that point. They are MUCH too sick.

Prior to that, they aren't that dangerous. Duncan lived with his family and none of them got sick. People have flown with Ebola and no one on the plane caught it.

Patients infect healthcare workers. Healthcare workers don't infect other people. [/quot

You are the one showing.g ignorance. Patrick Sawyer spread the disease to 20 people aafter gettinggetting on. Flight while symptomatic. Many of these cases were healthcare workers who spread it to their families- d the disease would not be spreading so rapidly in Africa if it was as hard to ge hard to get as you describe.

[Anonymous]

Only 3 health care workers have contracted Ebola from patients of the thousands working with Doctors Without Borders. One is the guy in NYC. They are very, very good at taking precautions. They have to be.

If she files a lawsuit she will win. There's someone else coming back to NYC who is also planning to file a lawsuit. He will win. The science is behind them.

I'm getting the sense that some of the hysteria is dying down as the infected health care workers have gotten better and after its become clear that unless you are working with end stage Ebola patients in a hospital not providing proper protection, you just aren't going to get it.

It turns out that the CDC was right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trophy generation brat angry she came home to a quarantine instead of a trophy.

She was risking her life caring for the dying in Africa. She came home to be treated like a criminal. I'd be pretty pissed if I were her.

If she were symptomatic, I would agree with you all. She isn't symptomatic, however, and until and unless she is, she poses 0% public health risk. The amount of ignorance and hysteria on this thread is astonishing.

I tend to agree with this. She's had two clean tests for Ebola and she's not going to transmit the virus -- if she has it -- through riding her bike. I think she's trying to reduce the hysteria that's creeping up on us.

On a happier note, isn't Nurse Pham's dog scheduled to be out of quarantine soon? I am so happy they didn't put him down as they did the dog in Spain.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Only 3 health care workers have contracted Ebola from patients of the thousands working with Doctors Without Borders. One is the guy in NYC. They are very, very good at taking precautions. They have to be.

If she files a lawsuit she will win. There's someone else coming back to NYC who is also planning to file a lawsuit. He will win. The science is behind them.

I'm getting the sense that some of the hysteria is dying down as the infected health care workers have gotten better and after its become clear that unless you are working with end stage Ebola patients in a hospital not providing proper protection, you just aren't going to get it.

It turns out that the CDC was right.

Your information is not correct --as of mid-September 14 Doctors Without Borders healthcare workers had gotten ebola. That information is 6 weeks old and doesn't include, at a minimum, Dr. Spencer. Overall more than 240 healthcare workers have gotten ebola in Africa, including at least 3 other American aid workers (all of whom were treated here). Most of these statistics come right from the Doctors without borders website. http://www.msf.org/article/ebola-workers-risk-tragic-reality-ebola-response-west-africa

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trophy generation brat angry she came home to a quarantine instead of a trophy.

She was risking her life caring for the dying in Africa. She came home to be treated like a criminal. I'd be pretty pissed if I were her.

If she were symptomatic, I would agree with you all. She isn't symptomatic, however, and until and unless she is, she poses 0% public health risk. The amount of ignorance and hysteria on this thread is astonishing.

I tend to agree with this. She's had two clean tests for Ebola and she's not going to transmit the virus -- if she has it -- through riding her bike. I think she's trying to reduce the hysteria that's creeping up on us.

On a happier note, isn't Nurse Pham's dog scheduled to be out of quarantine soon? I am so happy they didn't put him down as they did the dog in Spain.

Me too, PP!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trophy generation brat angry she came home to a quarantine instead of a trophy.

She was risking her life caring for the dying in Africa. She came home to be treated like a criminal. I'd be pretty pissed if I were her.

If she were symptomatic, I would agree with you all. She isn't symptomatic, however, and until and unless she is, she poses 0% public health risk. The amount of ignorance and hysteria on this thread is astonishing.

I tend to agree with this. She's had two clean tests for Ebola and she's not going to transmit the virus -- if she has it -- through riding her bike. I think she's trying to reduce the hysteria that's creeping up on us.

On a happier note, isn't Nurse Pham's dog scheduled to be out of quarantine soon? I am so happy they didn't put him down as they did the dog in Spain.

Me too, PP!

Yes! I think I read he is to be freed on Nov. 1!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Didnt Hickox test free of the Ebola virus? I thought I read that.

The test will be negative until the level of virus in the body rises enough to be detected. Most people become sick within the 21 days. Some have gone 40 days past exposure before the virus has replicated enough to be detected. So one negative test doesn't mean the person is not going to become sick in a few days.

This is why the public wants travel restrictions for all nonessential persons in the region and/or a pause on issuing new visas from the region. A person can fly in free of fever, then become sick weeks after.

But with Hickox being the wagging dog, we've shifted to arguing the history and legality of quarantine instead of continuing to ask why these visas are being granted and which city will be host to the next Duncan.

This is why conservatives and FOX News wants a travel ban, not the general public. The general public doesn't piss its pants quite as quickly as conservatives do.

Well this has made some strange bedfellows of us all, because I'm part of the general public and have never voted R, I, Tea Party in my life, and I want a travel ban.

+1. Life long Democrat, loathe FOX et al, and think a travel ban or at least a quarantine is reasonable. The reasons presented against these measures is specious - there's no reason why healthcare workers can't be granted access to and from the US as long as they maintain some distance from the general public for 21 days. I certainly don't want to be tended to by a nurse or doctor who returned from Sierra Leone five days ago. Supposedly medical workers are "self monitoring" but given the hubris demonstrated by Hickox and others I'm not convinced that actually means anything.

+2

+3

Sorry. I take it back. I should know that many people in my party are freakin' idiots.

Just because someone usually agrees with the party line doesn't mean it'll happen with every issue. I didn't agree to give up thinking critically when the voter ID card came in the mail.

Your dismissal of the general population's concern is condescending, and statements like your last one is what'll drive people to vote outside the party. Best to only comment on feel-good stories and updates about Pham's dog until after the elections.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Didnt Hickox test free of the Ebola virus? I thought I read that.

The test will be negative until the level of virus in the body rises enough to be detected. Most people become sick within the 21 days. Some have gone 40 days past exposure before the virus has replicated enough to be detected. So one negative test doesn't mean the person is not going to become sick in a few days.

This is why the public wants travel restrictions for all nonessential persons in the region and/or a pause on issuing new visas from the region. A person can fly in free of fever, then become sick weeks after.

But with Hickox being the wagging dog, we've shifted to arguing the history and legality of quarantine instead of continuing to ask why these visas are being granted and which city will be host to the next Duncan.

This is why conservatives and FOX News wants a travel ban, not the general public. The general public doesn't piss its pants quite as quickly as conservatives do.

Well this has made some strange bedfellows of us all, because I'm part of the general public and have never voted R, I, Tea Party in my life, and I want a travel ban.

+1. Life long Democrat, loathe FOX et al, and think a travel ban or at least a quarantine is reasonable. The reasons presented against these measures is specious - there's no reason why healthcare workers can't be granted access to and from the US as long as they maintain some distance from the general public for 21 days. I certainly don't want to be tended to by a nurse or doctor who returned from Sierra Leone five days ago. Supposedly medical workers are "self monitoring" but given the hubris demonstrated by Hickox and others I'm not convinced that actually means anything.

+2

+3

Sorry. I take it back. I should know that many people in my party are freakin' idiots.

Just because someone usually agrees with the party line doesn't mean it'll happen with every issue. I didn't agree to give up thinking critically when the voter ID card came in the mail.

Your dismissal of the general population's concern is condescending, and statements like your last one is what'll drive people to vote outside the party. Best to only comment on feel-good stories and updates about Pham's dog until after the elections.

I'm the one who posted about the nurse's dog, not the person you're snarking at.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Only 3 health care workers have contracted Ebola from patients of the thousands working with Doctors Without Borders. One is the guy in NYC. They are very, very good at taking precautions. They have to be.

If she files a lawsuit she will win. There's someone else coming back to NYC who is also planning to file a lawsuit. He will win. The science is behind them.

I'm getting the sense that some of the hysteria is dying down as the infected health care workers have gotten better and after its become clear that unless you are working with end stage Ebola patients in a hospital not providing proper protection, you just aren't going to get it.

It turns out that the CDC was right.

Your information is not correct --as of mid-September 14 Doctors Without Borders healthcare workers had gotten ebola. That information is 6 weeks old and doesn't include, at a minimum, Dr. Spencer. Overall more than 240 healthcare workers have gotten ebola in Africa, including at least 3 other American aid workers (all of whom were treated here). Most of these statistics come right from the Doctors without borders website. http://www.msf.org/article/ebola-workers-risk-tragic-reality-ebola-response-west-africa

24 MSF workers have gotten ebola. http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/article/q-msf%E2%80%99s-ebola-response-and-protocols Sadly people who have gotten ebola like Brantley cannot pinpoint when but believe it to have been when not fully hazmatted. Now would he or the camerman have touched some one unprotected while that person was emitting copious amounts of bodily fluids? No. So that is the heart of the problem.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:All of you arguing about civil liberties - I don't think there's a single judge in this nation that would not uphold Maine's right to impose a 21 day home quarantine on a returning Ebola health care worker. Not a chance. I don't see this as even a close issue. We just don't have civil liberties fundamentalists on the bench anymore; and even if we do, this is a case where the due process concerns clearly weigh in favor of the state. If someone has another interpretation based on review of actual quarantine caselaw, I'd like to see it.

She is less contagious that a lot of people with HIV spreading it around. The judges need to read biology.

Totally different case. There is a highly rational reason to believe that she will contract a highly contagious (MUCH more contagious than HIV, and much more deadly) disease during the quarantine period.

Not so, it is unlikely that she contracted it. Even if she develops ebola, right now she is not contagious.
HIV was 99% fatal before treatment. There were people running around intentionally infecting people and we did not quarantine. All they had to say was "whoops, I did not know I had it, gosh!"
Ebola is not as lethal, so far in the US, only 1 person has died from it.

It is unlikely that she contracted it, yes I can agree with that. But letting her do as she pleases sets bad precedent and eventually you will see another HCW return to the US carrying infection. The statistics are on her side as an individual HCW. The statistics will not be on our side if we don't in some way monitor people returning from hot zones.

She's riding a bicycle - not licking handrails on a metro. Let's be rational.
The quarantine is optional - so she's not defying anything.
It would be more effective if the quarantine restricted her from going to large public gathering places where tracking people would be difficult if not impossible - like a movie theater. But bicycling? Geez.

Of course she chose to ride her bike. She's the town pariah. She knows if she shows up in public, they'll go batshit. But what's the harm in an innocent bike ride? She even wore her helmet. Totally. Orchestrated.

Or maybe she just wanted to get out of the house and enjoy a beautiful fall day after spending the last couple of months in a hazmat suit in equatorial Africa, followed by a few days in tent in New Jersey.

Or maybe she was on the Today show two days ago, threatening to break her quarantine on Thursday. Heroes don't threaten the public, period. She gave up her hero status to focus on being an activist brat.

It's terrible to say but I wish she'd get ebola just to prove her wrong. She's being an arrogant bitch and she really can't say for certain she doesn't have it until the incubation period is over, regardless of her testing negative for it at this juncture.

I wish YOU would get Ebola and then have healthcare workers refuse to treat you. You're being an ignorant, hysterical bitch who is imposing house arrest on a nurse who poses 0 danger to public health because you are pissing your pants.

Look, I'm not pissing in my pants nor do I think I'm even close to being in danger of getting Ebola but I think that nurse is ballsy and arrogant. She needs to accept the fact that several healthcare professionals have been treated here after developing ebola after treating patients in Africa.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:All of you arguing about civil liberties - I don't think there's a single judge in this nation that would not uphold Maine's right to impose a 21 day home quarantine on a returning Ebola health care worker. Not a chance. I don't see this as even a close issue. We just don't have civil liberties fundamentalists on the bench anymore; and even if we do, this is a case where the due process concerns clearly weigh in favor of the state. If someone has another interpretation based on review of actual quarantine caselaw, I'd like to see it.

She is less contagious that a lot of people with HIV spreading it around. The judges need to read biology.

Totally different case. There is a highly rational reason to believe that she will contract a highly contagious (MUCH more contagious than HIV, and much more deadly) disease during the quarantine period.

Not so, it is unlikely that she contracted it. Even if she develops ebola, right now she is not contagious.
HIV was 99% fatal before treatment. There were people running around intentionally infecting people and we did not quarantine. All they had to say was "whoops, I did not know I had it, gosh!"
Ebola is not as lethal, so far in the US, only 1 person has died from it.

It is unlikely that she contracted it, yes I can agree with that. But letting her do as she pleases sets bad precedent and eventually you will see another HCW return to the US carrying infection. The statistics are on her side as an individual HCW. The statistics will not be on our side if we don't in some way monitor people returning from hot zones.

She's riding a bicycle - not licking handrails on a metro. Let's be rational.
The quarantine is optional - so she's not defying anything.
It would be more effective if the quarantine restricted her from going to large public gathering places where tracking people would be difficult if not impossible - like a movie theater. But bicycling? Geez.

Of course she chose to ride her bike. She's the town pariah. She knows if she shows up in public, they'll go batshit. But what's the harm in an innocent bike ride? She even wore her helmet. Totally. Orchestrated.

Or maybe she just wanted to get out of the house and enjoy a beautiful fall day after spending the last couple of months in a hazmat suit in equatorial Africa, followed by a few days in tent in New Jersey.

Or maybe she was on the Today show two days ago, threatening to break her quarantine on Thursday. Heroes don't threaten the public, period. She gave up her hero status to focus on being an activist brat.

It's terrible to say but I wish she'd get ebola just to prove her wrong. She's being an arrogant bitch and she really can't say for certain she doesn't have it until the incubation period is over, regardless of her testing negative for it at this juncture.

I wish YOU would get Ebola and then have healthcare workers refuse to treat you. You're being an ignorant, hysterical bitch who is imposing house arrest on a nurse who poses 0 danger to public health because you are pissing your pants.

Look, I'm not pissing in my pants nor do I think I'm even close to being in danger of getting Ebola but I think that nurse is ballsy and arrogant. She needs to accept the fact that several healthcare professionals have been treated here after developing ebola after treating patients in Africa.

Yes. They have been. And not a single one of them infected another person. All of them reported to the hospital for treatment as soon as they were symptomatic. Some of them were aware that they were symptomatic within 90 minutes because they were taking their temp that often. Every single one of them is aware that his/her life is on the line and the lives of other people are on the line and are carefully monitoring their temperature for the sake of THEIR OWN HEALTH! If you can't trust them to be professionals who care about public health, then you should trust them to be careful because

Health care workers are at serious risk from their patients. The general public is not at risk from health care workers. She isn't putting you at risk because she rode her bike. The doctor didn't put anyone at risk by taking the Metro. The nurse didn't infect anyone on the plane.

Until you can point to a specific case in which a healthcare worker has infected someone else, you are punishing healthcare workers for no reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Only 3 health care workers have contracted Ebola from patients of the thousands working with Doctors Without Borders. One is the guy in NYC. They are very, very good at taking precautions. They have to be.

If she files a lawsuit she will win. There's someone else coming back to NYC who is also planning to file a lawsuit. He will win. The science is behind them.

I'm getting the sense that some of the hysteria is dying down as the infected health care workers have gotten better and after its become clear that unless you are working with end stage Ebola patients in a hospital not providing proper protection, you just aren't going to get it.

It turns out that the CDC was right.

Your information is not correct --as of mid-September 14 Doctors Without Borders healthcare workers had gotten ebola. That information is 6 weeks old and doesn't include, at a minimum, Dr. Spencer. Overall more than 240 healthcare workers have gotten ebola in Africa, including at least 3 other American aid workers (all of whom were treated here). Most of these statistics come right from the Doctors without borders website. http://www.msf.org/article/ebola-workers-risk-tragic-reality-ebola-response-west-africa

Healthcare workers are at serious risk from patients. The general public is not at serious risk from healthcare workers, however. They are being very careful to monitor their own health. They know their lives depend on them to self-monitor.
24 MSF workers have gotten ebola. http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/article/q-msf%E2%80%99s-ebola-response-and-protocols Sadly people who have gotten ebola like Brantley cannot pinpoint when but believe it to have been when not fully hazmatted. Now would he or the camerman have touched some one unprotected while that person was emitting copious amounts of bodily fluids? No. So that is the heart of the problem.

[Anonymous]

So we must ask the question...should we detain all healthcare worker? I say yes.