should we opt for the only long-term care option on offer?

[Anonymous]

My DH was just dx with Parkinson's disease, although he is fully functional and still working. We are in our mid/late 50s. Trying to figure out if we should pull the trigger on the one and only long-term care insurance option he's been offered--a hybrid life insurance policy with LTC rider. We would pay 100K and he would get a maximum of about 250K in benefits, tax free (so he'd get about $3,200 a month if trigger is pulled this year, up to about $6,000 per month in a decade). Death benefit is not great--it's less than the 100K we pay for the first decade, then rises modestly. Our financial advisor is really meh about this option, but it's our only one (for him). Our net worth is close to $4M and we do have disability and life insurance.

And yes, we are consulting with elder law attorneys right now. I'm just looking at this policy specifically and wondering if it's worth it since we have the 100K available. Thoughts from the wise DCUM community?

[Anonymous]

Can you estimate how long before he either won't be able to function?

If that timeline is long enough that investing $100k over that period would yield more than $250k in returns, then clearly invest the $100k.

Also, how long could you expect him to draw benefits? $6,000 a month is 42 months before the $250k is reached, and if you don't expect him to draw benefits for that long then your $100k investment didn't even yield it's full return.

I have to agree with your financial advisor's meh opinion about this plan, especially given that you have $4M net worth with disability and life insurance.

[Anonymous]

I'm an economist. I think it's worth it. As you say, it's your only option available because for everyone else it's too risky. You need to weigh your risk of how bad the illness might get versus life expectancy. With Parkinson's the life expectancy is supposedly the same as normal, 81 years on average, so you might be looking at 20+ years of care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm an economist. I think it's worth it. As you say, it's your only option available because for everyone else it's too risky. You need to weigh your risk of how bad the illness might get versus life expectancy. With Parkinson's the life expectancy is supposedly the same as normal, 81 years on average, so you might be looking at 20+ years of care.

Thanks for weighing in. It seems that many who frequent message boards instinctively dislike anything to do with LTC policies. It seems that Parkinson's, with its often attendant dementia, probably entails longer care needs than for most.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can you estimate how long before he either won't be able to function?

If that timeline is long enough that investing $100k over that period would yield more than $250k in returns, then clearly invest the $100k.

Also, how long could you expect him to draw benefits? $6,000 a month is 42 months before the $250k is reached, and if you don't expect him to draw benefits for that long then your $100k investment didn't even yield it's full return.

I have to agree with your financial advisor's meh opinion about this plan, especially given that you have $4M net worth with disability and life insurance.

He's 100% functional right now, and chances are he will be for years. Of course, there is no way to predict any one person's progression. How long do you think it would take to turn 100K into 250K in a normal market?

[Anonymous]

Even so, the $250k max payout only lasts a few years.

[Anonymous]

I probably would given the diagnosis.

[Anonymous]

OP, given that you have other money separate from this, I would go for it. I view it as diversifying your retirement funds and opening up another funding mechanism.

If this was your only retirement money then my answer would likely be different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm an economist. I think it's worth it. As you say, it's your only option available because for everyone else it's too risky. You need to weigh your risk of how bad the illness might get versus life expectancy. With Parkinson's the life expectancy is supposedly the same as normal, 81 years on average, so you might be looking at 20+ years of care.

Assisted living costs on the order of $66k a year now… obviously will be more in the future… $250k is almost four years of that… if you need 20 years of care you better have a Plan B.

Also it’s not the only option, the other option is put the $100k in the market for ten years or so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an economist. I think it's worth it. As you say, it's your only option available because for everyone else it's too risky. You need to weigh your risk of how bad the illness might get versus life expectancy. With Parkinson's the life expectancy is supposedly the same as normal, 81 years on average, so you might be looking at 20+ years of care.

Assisted living costs on the order of $66k a year now… obviously will be more in the future… $250k is almost four years of that… if you need 20 years of care you better have a Plan B.

Also it’s not the only option, the other option is put the $100k in the market for ten years or so.

This. The pay out is only $250K so it won't cover a long period of care. I would skip it and invest the money. Plus that way you don't have to go through insurance to convince them to pay. They look for any excuse to not pay.

[Anonymous]

It seems to me that you should put 100K in the market if he is healthy and can reasonably expect to stay healthy for 10+ years. I would also put 20K in ibonds a year too. In 10 years you should have well over $400K set aside for his care if you need it.

And I am so sorry OP.

[Anonymous]

OP I have no opinion on the LTC insurance as I'm not terribly sensible about finances.

I am, however, a professional caregiver who has spent the last decade working with patients who have dementia of various types including Parkinson's, so I know a few things about the practical aspects of living with the disease.

I wanted to share this resource recently broadcast on CNN; it focuses on Alzheimer's but much of the emerging research shows promise for Parkinson's patients as well: https://www.cnn.com/audio/podcasts/the-whole-story-with-anderson-cooper/episodes/108c81e2-9f79-11ee-a6ef-ff2dcabab0fa

Also here is the Johns Hopkins medicine page on using diet and exercise to slow progression of Parkinson's: https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/parkinsons-disease/fighting-parkinson-disease-with-exercise-and-diet#:~:text=The%20Role%20of%20Exercise&text=%E2%80%9CMovement%2C%20especially%20exercises%20that%20encourage,the%20disease%2C%E2%80%9D%20she%20says.

A lot of doctors are still stuck in the modus of talking about inevitable disease progression and drug interventions (for Parkinson's there is also surgical intervention, one patient I worked with had terrific results from that path) but fail to discuss with patients immediately how they can improve their overall health and significantly impact the progression of disease by making lifestyle changes - big ones depending on how they are living their lives currently, but ones that would benefit the health of the whole family and which could maintain their cognitive function intact for many years to come.

I hope you don't mind too much me inserting this here; I've been following the emerging science and growing view of Alzheimer's and related dementias (including Parkinson's) as having roots in gut dysbiosis and I'm a bit evangelical about letting people know that they have some control over how this unfolds for them, if they choose to take the reins.

I wish you and your family all the best in the journey.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP I have no opinion on the LTC insurance as I'm not terribly sensible about finances.

I am, however, a professional caregiver who has spent the last decade working with patients who have dementia of various types including Parkinson's, so I know a few things about the practical aspects of living with the disease.

I wanted to share this resource recently broadcast on CNN; it focuses on Alzheimer's but much of the emerging research shows promise for Parkinson's patients as well: https://www.cnn.com/audio/podcasts/the-whole-story-with-anderson-cooper/episodes/108c81e2-9f79-11ee-a6ef-ff2dcabab0fa

Also here is the Johns Hopkins medicine page on using diet and exercise to slow progression of Parkinson's: https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/parkinsons-disease/fighting-parkinson-disease-with-exercise-and-diet#:~:text=The%20Role%20of%20Exercise&text=%E2%80%9CMovement%2C%20especially%20exercises%20that%20encourage,the%20disease%2C%E2%80%9D%20she%20says.

A lot of doctors are still stuck in the modus of talking about inevitable disease progression and drug interventions (for Parkinson's there is also surgical intervention, one patient I worked with had terrific results from that path) but fail to discuss with patients immediately how they can improve their overall health and significantly impact the progression of disease by making lifestyle changes - big ones depending on how they are living their lives currently, but ones that would benefit the health of the whole family and which could maintain their cognitive function intact for many years to come.

I hope you don't mind too much me inserting this here; I've been following the emerging science and growing view of Alzheimer's and related dementias (including Parkinson's) as having roots in gut dysbiosis and I'm a bit evangelical about letting people know that they have some control over how this unfolds for them, if they choose to take the reins.

I wish you and your family all the best in the journey.

Thank you. He's already been bumping up his exercise and trying to eat better. We are following the science closely.

[Anonymous]

I have an elderly parent w Parkinson’s and have read a good deal about it. Most ppl diagnosed so young seem to have decades without significant disability. I would invest that money somewhere else bc there is prob time for it to grow a lot.