MoCo Question B would be a disaster

[Anonymous]

I don't understand how a revenie cap works in a county that is always growing. When the school system grows by 2K kids a year. The population grows every year. Limiting the reveue makes no sense. More people means we need more services etc. I assume with no increased revenue there will be no additional schools, roads, extra police and fire for the growing population???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Question B allows the county to push back on the unions. The unions don't want an income tax hike but don't care about a property tax increase. No property tax increase = no money to keep giving the unions whatever they want. Its the only way to a balanced budget.

I also find it amazing that the Elrich supporters seem to think that a property tax really only hurts millionaires living in Potomac. Newsflash but the multi-millionaires living in Potomac do not care about a big hike in property tax and there are not many of them in the count much toward the revenues.

The vast majority of property in MOCO is in the 300K-under 1M bucket. A big hike in property will hurt them. It will r educe the numbers of buyers because people stretching to afford a home will need to reduce their house buying budget to meet the debt to income threshold with higher property taxes. It will price seniors out of their homes or cut substantially into their retirement savings.

The county can't raise the income tax. The property tax is it's main source of revenue. If question B passes make no mistake the rate will go down every year unless the housing market crashes and thus will affect public services including schools, roads and public safety. The county has very limited options for raising revenues to make up for that loss.

They can cut unnecessary expenses. The hazard pay essential employees received should had been much less and stopped when the state moved to phase 2. Bloated pensions and salaries need to be cut. salary freezes. get rid of bogus positions. Stop giving money to developers. If the county wasnt so wasteful, people would be more.supportive of a tax increase.for essential services.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Question B allows the county to push back on the unions. The unions don't want an income tax hike but don't care about a property tax increase. No property tax increase = no money to keep giving the unions whatever they want. Its the only way to a balanced budget.

I also find it amazing that the Elrich supporters seem to think that a property tax really only hurts millionaires living in Potomac. Newsflash but the multi-millionaires living in Potomac do not care about a big hike in property tax and there are not many of them in the count much toward the revenues.

The vast majority of property in MOCO is in the 300K-under 1M bucket. A big hike in property will hurt them. It will r educe the numbers of buyers because people stretching to afford a home will need to reduce their house buying budget to meet the debt to income threshold with higher property taxes. It will price seniors out of their homes or cut substantially into their retirement savings.

The county can't raise the income tax. The property tax is it's main source of revenue. If question B passes make no mistake the rate will go down every year unless the housing market crashes and thus will affect public services including schools, roads and public safety. The county has very limited options for raising revenues to make up for that loss.

They can cut unnecessary expenses. The hazard pay essential employees received should had been much less and stopped when the state moved to phase 2. Bloated pensions and salaries need to be cut. salary freezes. get rid of bogus positions. Stop giving money to developers. If the county wasnt so wasteful, people would be more.supportive of a tax increase.for essential services.

A much better solution to that problem is voting in better leaders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand how a revenie cap works in a county that is always growing. When the school system grows by 2K kids a year. The population grows every year. Limiting the reveue makes no sense. More people means we need more services etc. I assume with no increased revenue there will be no additional schools, roads, extra police and fire for the growing population???

MCPS enrollment declined by over 3k this year. It's not a hard revenue cap, inflation is the limit. Moco, due to its economic policies, isn't growing faster than the rate of inflation, so the property taxes shouldn't increase over the rate of inflation either. There will still be enough for schools, roads, police, and fire, if they reallocate those funds from somewhere else. Looking at the county's budget online, there's a lot of generic, vague descriptions of where the money is going.

If Moco is supposedly growing faster than the rate of inflation, then why is our tax base supposedly getting smaller?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Question B allows the county to push back on the unions. The unions don't want an income tax hike but don't care about a property tax increase. No property tax increase = no money to keep giving the unions whatever they want. Its the only way to a balanced budget.

I also find it amazing that the Elrich supporters seem to think that a property tax really only hurts millionaires living in Potomac. Newsflash but the multi-millionaires living in Potomac do not care about a big hike in property tax and there are not many of them in the count much toward the revenues.

The vast majority of property in MOCO is in the 300K-under 1M bucket. A big hike in property will hurt them. It will r educe the numbers of buyers because people stretching to afford a home will need to reduce their house buying budget to meet the debt to income threshold with higher property taxes. It will price seniors out of their homes or cut substantially into their retirement savings.

The county can't raise the income tax. The property tax is it's main source of revenue. If question B passes make no mistake the rate will go down every year unless the housing market crashes and thus will affect public services including schools, roads and public safety. The county has very limited options for raising revenues to make up for that loss.

They can cut unnecessary expenses. The hazard pay essential employees received should had been much less and stopped when the state moved to phase 2. Bloated pensions and salaries need to be cut. salary freezes. get rid of bogus positions. Stop giving money to developers. If the county wasnt so wasteful, people would be more.supportive of a tax increase.for essential services.

A much better solution to that problem is voting in better leaders.

Hard to do that when those wasteful leaders try to reproduce more of themselves (Question C).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Question B allows the county to push back on the unions. The unions don't want an income tax hike but don't care about a property tax increase. No property tax increase = no money to keep giving the unions whatever they want. Its the only way to a balanced budget.

I also find it amazing that the Elrich supporters seem to think that a property tax really only hurts millionaires living in Potomac. Newsflash but the multi-millionaires living in Potomac do not care about a big hike in property tax and there are not many of them in the count much toward the revenues.

The vast majority of property in MOCO is in the 300K-under 1M bucket. A big hike in property will hurt them. It will r educe the numbers of buyers because people stretching to afford a home will need to reduce their house buying budget to meet the debt to income threshold with higher property taxes. It will price seniors out of their homes or cut substantially into their retirement savings.

The county can't raise the income tax. The property tax is it's main source of revenue. If question B passes make no mistake the rate will go down every year unless the housing market crashes and thus will affect public services including schools, roads and public safety. The county has very limited options for raising revenues to make up for that loss.

They can cut unnecessary expenses. The hazard pay essential employees received should had been much less and stopped when the state moved to phase 2. Bloated pensions and salaries need to be cut. salary freezes. get rid of bogus positions. Stop giving money to developers. If the county wasnt so wasteful, people would be more.supportive of a tax increase.for essential services.

By all means please lead the charge to cut pensions for public safety workers (they are the only ones that still get pensions). They certainly could freeze salaries for a year or two but at a certain point you have to keep up with inflation and give people enough to live on in this county. "Bogus" positions will not add up to nearly enough and nobody will agree on which ones they are. Development will be the only way to I crease the tax base under Question B so it will actually increase the incentive to give money to developers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Question B allows the county to push back on the unions. The unions don't want an income tax hike but don't care about a property tax increase. No property tax increase = no money to keep giving the unions whatever they want. Its the only way to a balanced budget.

I also find it amazing that the Elrich supporters seem to think that a property tax really only hurts millionaires living in Potomac. Newsflash but the multi-millionaires living in Potomac do not care about a big hike in property tax and there are not many of them in the count much toward the revenues.

The vast majority of property in MOCO is in the 300K-under 1M bucket. A big hike in property will hurt them. It will r educe the numbers of buyers because people stretching to afford a home will need to reduce their house buying budget to meet the debt to income threshold with higher property taxes. It will price seniors out of their homes or cut substantially into their retirement savings.

The county can't raise the income tax. The property tax is it's main source of revenue. If question B passes make no mistake the rate will go down every year unless the housing market crashes and thus will affect public services including schools, roads and public safety. The county has very limited options for raising revenues to make up for that loss.

They can cut unnecessary expenses. The hazard pay essential employees received should had been much less and stopped when the state moved to phase 2. Bloated pensions and salaries need to be cut. salary freezes. get rid of bogus positions. Stop giving money to developers. If the county wasnt so wasteful, people would be more.supportive of a tax increase.for essential services.

By all means please lead the charge to cut pensions for public safety workers (they are the only ones that still get pensions). They certainly could freeze salaries for a year or two but at a certain point you have to keep up with inflation and give people enough to live on in this county. "Bogus" positions will not add up to nearly enough and nobody will agree on which ones they are. Development will be the only way to I crease the tax base under Question B so it will actually increase the incentive to give money to developers.

So it wouldn't be all doom and gloom, we can just build like Northern Virginia. They seem to be doing pretty well with all that development. Moco used to be like that too in the 80's and 90's, before the Silver Spring crew took over the county council and discouraged development. If I had to choose between higher taxes or development, I choose development. Yes developers get money, they get money whichever jurisdiction they build in because most jurisdictions realize development is typically a net positive economically.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand how a revenie cap works in a county that is always growing. When the school system grows by 2K kids a year. The population grows every year. Limiting the reveue makes no sense. More people means we need more services etc. I assume with no increased revenue there will be no additional schools, roads, extra police and fire for the growing population???

MCPS enrollment declined by over 3k this year. It's not a hard revenue cap, inflation is the limit. Moco, due to its economic policies, isn't growing faster than the rate of inflation, so the property taxes shouldn't increase over the rate of inflation either. There will still be enough for schools, roads, police, and fire, if they reallocate those funds from somewhere else. Looking at the county's budget online, there's a lot of generic, vague descriptions of where the money is going.

If Moco is supposedly growing faster than the rate of inflation, then why is our tax base supposedly getting smaller?

But this is not a typical year for MCPS and we all know it is distance learning related. Forget the schools, just look at regular population growth. Inflation does not cover adding more people to the equation. Inflation just means that you are paying more for what you had before. It does not include needing more on top of that. When they built out Clarksburg, they need more firefighters, they need more road maintenance., on and on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand how a revenie cap works in a county that is always growing. When the school system grows by 2K kids a year. The population grows every year. Limiting the reveue makes no sense. More people means we need more services etc. I assume with no increased revenue there will be no additional schools, roads, extra police and fire for the growing population???

MCPS enrollment declined by over 3k this year. It's not a hard revenue cap, inflation is the limit. Moco, due to its economic policies, isn't growing faster than the rate of inflation, so the property taxes shouldn't increase over the rate of inflation either. There will still be enough for schools, roads, police, and fire, if they reallocate those funds from somewhere else. Looking at the county's budget online, there's a lot of generic, vague descriptions of where the money is going.

If Moco is supposedly growing faster than the rate of inflation, then why is our tax base supposedly getting smaller?

But this is not a typical year for MCPS and we all know it is distance learning related. Forget the schools, just look at regular population growth. Inflation does not cover adding more people to the equation. Inflation just means that you are paying more for what you had before. It does not include needing more on top of that. When they built out Clarksburg, they need more firefighters, they need more road maintenance., on and on.

Yeah, those people moving into Clarksburg pay new property taxes on their new construction houses. If new people are moving in from out-of-county, they are also now paying the 3.2% Moco income tax. They pay for themselves, we don't need to dig deeper into the existing tax base. If the county council wants new money, they need to encourage new revenue streams, not take the easy way out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand how a revenie cap works in a county that is always growing. When the school system grows by 2K kids a year. The population grows every year. Limiting the reveue makes no sense. More people means we need more services etc. I assume with no increased revenue there will be no additional schools, roads, extra police and fire for the growing population???

MCPS enrollment declined by over 3k this year. It's not a hard revenue cap, inflation is the limit. Moco, due to its economic policies, isn't growing faster than the rate of inflation, so the property taxes shouldn't increase over the rate of inflation either. There will still be enough for schools, roads, police, and fire, if they reallocate those funds from somewhere else. Looking at the county's budget online, there's a lot of generic, vague descriptions of where the money is going.

If Moco is supposedly growing faster than the rate of inflation, then why is our tax base supposedly getting smaller?

But this is not a typical year for MCPS and we all know it is distance learning related. Forget the schools, just look at regular population growth. Inflation does not cover adding more people to the equation. Inflation just means that you are paying more for what you had before. It does not include needing more on top of that. When they built out Clarksburg, they need more firefighters, they need more road maintenance., on and on.

Yeah, those people moving into Clarksburg pay new property taxes on their new construction houses. If new people are moving in from out-of-county, they are also now paying the 3.2% Moco income tax. They pay for themselves, we don't need to dig deeper into the existing tax base. If the county council wants new money, they need to encourage new revenue streams, not take the easy way out.

DP. Yes population growth is somewhat counteracted by new construction (though it doesn't address demographic changes - if families with children replace retirees, for example). What isn't addressed is new costs and changes to existing revenue streams. For example, in the past 10 years, the state shifted teacher pension costs to the counties, and a SCOTUS decision resulted in reduced income tax revenue. The county has very limited options for paying for new costs or making up lost revenue, without the ability to raise property tax revenues. Now of course there are folks who believe you should "starve the beast" to make government more efficient, but it really doesn't work like that. The county provides essential services that people count on and they will get cut, regardless of what you want to admit right now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand how a revenie cap works in a county that is always growing. When the school system grows by 2K kids a year. The population grows every year. Limiting the reveue makes no sense. More people means we need more services etc. I assume with no increased revenue there will be no additional schools, roads, extra police and fire for the growing population???

MCPS enrollment declined by over 3k this year. It's not a hard revenue cap, inflation is the limit. Moco, due to its economic policies, isn't growing faster than the rate of inflation, so the property taxes shouldn't increase over the rate of inflation either. There will still be enough for schools, roads, police, and fire, if they reallocate those funds from somewhere else. Looking at the county's budget online, there's a lot of generic, vague descriptions of where the money is going.

If Moco is supposedly growing faster than the rate of inflation, then why is our tax base supposedly getting smaller?

But this is not a typical year for MCPS and we all know it is distance learning related. Forget the schools, just look at regular population growth. Inflation does not cover adding more people to the equation. Inflation just means that you are paying more for what you had before. It does not include needing more on top of that. When they built out Clarksburg, they need more firefighters, they need more road maintenance., on and on.

Yeah, those people moving into Clarksburg pay new property taxes on their new construction houses. If new people are moving in from out-of-county, they are also now paying the 3.2% Moco income tax. They pay for themselves, we don't need to dig deeper into the existing tax base. If the county council wants new money, they need to encourage new revenue streams, not take the easy way out.

But if there is a revenue CAP, there can be no increase in taxes despite the new homes. If MoCo collectively collects 1B in 2020, they can collect only 1B in 2021 even if 10,000 new people have moved in from other counties. Tell me if I am misunderstanding because there is no way I would vote for that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

But if there is a revenue CAP, there can be no increase in taxes despite the new homes. If MoCo collectively collects 1B in 2020, they can collect only 1B in 2021 even if 10,000 new people have moved in from other counties. Tell me if I am misunderstanding because there is no way I would vote for that.

Yes, If those homes were newly constructed then they are not counted in the cap. The cap excludes new construction. If more people move into existing housing then the cap does not exclude that. If the value of existing housing goes up more than inflation, then the Council must reduce the property tax rate to ensure revenue growth remains under inflation, excluding new construction.

Bear in mind property values impact the county's costs and what it takes for county employees to be able to afford to live here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The county has very limited options for paying for new costs or making up lost revenue, without the ability to raise property tax revenues. Now of course there are folks who believe you should "starve the beast" to make government more efficient, but it really doesn't work like that. The county provides essential services that people count on and they will get cut, regardless of what you want to admit right now.

They have a great option -- cutting spending.

For example, question C would cost millions to expand the # of members on the county council, with their additional staff and office space too.

Or do we really need an Office of Racial Equity and Social Justice, that they created a year ago:
https://bethesdamagazine.com/bethesda-beat/government/montgomery-county-passes-sweeping-racial-equity-bill/
along with a director and staff.

[Anonymous]

By all means please lead the charge to cut pensions for public safety workers (they are the only ones that still get pensions). They certainly could freeze salaries for a year or two but at a certain point you have to keep up with inflation and give people enough to live on in this county. "Bogus" positions will not add up to nearly enough and nobody will agree on which ones they are. Development will be the only way to I crease the tax base under Question B so it will actually increase the incentive to give money to developers.

They can reduce salaries for people making over 100K. They can cut unnecessary positions. They can restrict funds that they give to MCPS to be spent on specific line items not handed over to the union for salary increases on staff making over 100K or allowing MCPS to create another new 140K central office position.

MOCO really needs to focus on growing more business presence. Its crazy to compare how well NOVA is doing in generating business tax revenue while MCPS is in the red.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

By all means please lead the charge to cut pensions for public safety workers (they are the only ones that still get pensions). They certainly could freeze salaries for a year or two but at a certain point you have to keep up with inflation and give people enough to live on in this county. "Bogus" positions will not add up to nearly enough and nobody will agree on which ones they are. Development will be the only way to I crease the tax base under Question B so it will actually increase the incentive to give money to developers.

They can reduce salaries for people making over 100K. They can cut unnecessary positions. They can restrict funds that they give to MCPS to be spent on specific line items not handed over to the union for salary increases on staff making over 100K or allowing MCPS to create another new 140K central office position.

MOCO really needs to focus on growing more business presence. Its crazy to compare how well NOVA is doing in generating business tax revenue while MCPS is in the red.

They actually can't do that.

Limiting salary increases for high earners is not a terrible idea but be aware that you need to keep salaries competitive or people will leave. You're not going to get significant savings out of this.