Catholics: How do you still justify going to church or being a part of the church?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a pp and am not Catholic. I have been happily married to my first husband for many years and am currently a grandmother. I have no feelings of guilt relating to behaviors frowned on by the church.

My objections to the Catholic Church come from their incessant attempts at blurring the line separating church and state. These include their history of ignoring abuse of children, as well as trying to halt distribution of birth control and working to criminalize abortion, including in pregnancies of children as young as 10 resulting from incest and in trying to force women to carry a pregnancy even at risk to her own health.

It is one thing for a church to ask its own followers to adhere to its rules, it is another to force your religion down the throats of the of the rest of us.

“Incessant attempts at blurring the line separating church and state.”

The “line” in question prevents the sovereign from establishing a state religion. It imposes no restrictions of any kind on believers. Indeed. It protects their right both to freedom of belief and free exercise.

What you characterize as “incessant attempts” are nothing more than the exercise of free speech and the right to petition for redress of grievances. Catholics, individually and through their associations, have the same right as anyone else to advocate for policies they support. Rather equivalent to the incessant attempts by others who continuously advocate for a Malthusian social order, driven by eugenics, where human life has no objective or intrinsic value, and procreation is ever more steadily removed from the natural order and there is at least a disposition toward every child having two parents. If advises for such values have the right to “force their beliefs down people’s throats,” Catholics have an equal right to be heard in the public forum and seek to influence policy.

Every institution in society has a history of ignoring the abuse of children, including the eugenics industry that profits from the sale of aborted human persons. You simply want the Church to shut up because you disagree with it but it still enjoys sufficient support to carry on its mission, including the promotion of life. Why is the debate always about a 10 year old or a woman with a life threatening pregnancy, and never about the millions of wholly elective abortions performed for sex selection, convenience, and/or under pressure from third parties?

[Anonymous]

Have you thought that our president Joe Biden and prominent democrat Nancy Pelosi are practicing Catholics? They haven’t disavowed or left the Catholic Church. Did you vote for President Biden? If so why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've been struggling for awhile and this abortion statement this week was another blow.

I realize i will get attacked for that, and fine, attack away. I don't expect the Church to change its position, and in a lot of ways, I agree with it. But I also know there are times when women and families have found themselves in situations they never thought they'd face and the idea that Church leadership, with all their many problems, coverups, abuses, are taking time out of their day to focus on this is just kind of beyond the pale.

We've had our older child confirmed, and I suppose we'll do the same with the younger one, but to say we are lapsed is an understatement.

My oldest was supposed to receive the Sacrament of Confirmation and attend classes, but my husband and I just could not allow him to go through the process. I actually took both of my children out of youth group and my family no longer attends Mass. I am so sick and beyond disgusted by the coverups and excuses. Child abuse is wrong. As an advocate for children, I can no longer support an institution which is a pedophile ring. I just can't look the other way and go on about my life. I feel like people are basically giving the church a license to abuse their children.

I feel rage against the Catholic church. I do not know how parents of child abuse victims reconcile. My heart goes out to anyone who has been abused by the Catholic church.

Also, after working in developing countries and with rape victims here in the states I got over being against abortion. I had a case once in which a 9 year old girl was rape. There was no way in Hell she should be denied an abortion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been struggling for awhile and this abortion statement this week was another blow.

I realize i will get attacked for that, and fine, attack away. I don't expect the Church to change its position, and in a lot of ways, I agree with it. But I also know there are times when women and families have found themselves in situations they never thought they'd face and the idea that Church leadership, with all their many problems, coverups, abuses, are taking time out of their day to focus on this is just kind of beyond the pale.

We've had our older child confirmed, and I suppose we'll do the same with the younger one, but to say we are lapsed is an understatement.

My oldest was supposed to receive the Sacrament of Confirmation and attend classes, but my husband and I just could not allow him to go through the process. I actually took both of my children out of youth group and my family no longer attends Mass. I am so sick and beyond disgusted by the coverups and excuses. Child abuse is wrong. As an advocate for children, I can no longer support an institution which is a pedophile ring. I just can't look the other way and go on about my life. I feel like people are basically giving the church a license to abuse their children.

I feel rage against the Catholic church. I do not know how parents of child abuse victims reconcile. My heart goes out to anyone who has been abused by the Catholic church.

Also, after working in developing countries and with rape victims here in the states I got over being against abortion. I had a case once in which a 9 year old girl was rape. There was no way in Hell she should be denied an abortion.

If your child is still letting you make decisions on his behalf about his faith, then he probably is not ready to receive the Holy Spirit and be confirmed yet, and it is good that he didn’t receive the sacrament.
I hope that you are continuing to teach your children at home and pray with them after pulling them from their religious education.
My prayers are with your family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been struggling for awhile and this abortion statement this week was another blow.

I realize i will get attacked for that, and fine, attack away. I don't expect the Church to change its position, and in a lot of ways, I agree with it. But I also know there are times when women and families have found themselves in situations they never thought they'd face and the idea that Church leadership, with all their many problems, coverups, abuses, are taking time out of their day to focus on this is just kind of beyond the pale.

We've had our older child confirmed, and I suppose we'll do the same with the younger one, but to say we are lapsed is an understatement.

My oldest was supposed to receive the Sacrament of Confirmation and attend classes, but my husband and I just could not allow him to go through the process. I actually took both of my children out of youth group and my family no longer attends Mass. I am so sick and beyond disgusted by the coverups and excuses. Child abuse is wrong. As an advocate for children, I can no longer support an institution which is a pedophile ring. I just can't look the other way and go on about my life. I feel like people are basically giving the church a license to abuse their children.

I feel rage against the Catholic church. I do not know how parents of child abuse victims reconcile. My heart goes out to anyone who has been abused by the Catholic church.

Also, after working in developing countries and with rape victims here in the states I got over being against abortion. I had a case once in which a 9 year old girl was rape. There was no way in Hell she should be denied an abortion.

If your child is still letting you make decisions on his behalf about his faith, then he probably is not ready to receive the Holy Spirit and be confirmed yet, and it is good that he didn’t receive the sacrament.
I hope that you are continuing to teach your children at home and pray with them after pulling them from their religious education.
My prayers are with your family.

BS -- you're praying for them to return to a corrupt church.

[Anonymous]

OP I am an ex catholic for many of the reasons you mention. Also their stance on birth control, abortion, women as priests, etc. However I don't hate Catholics or the church.

Just like other large bodies, say the USA, have done horrible things, and has horrible individuals, but that doesn't make everybody guilty by association. Do you think all Germans should leave Germany because of the Holocaust?

It's not an individual, faithful Catholic's fault that there are pedos and other horrors in the church and the church's history. They can remain a faithful member and work to change the corporation from the inside.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been struggling for awhile and this abortion statement this week was another blow.

I realize i will get attacked for that, and fine, attack away. I don't expect the Church to change its position, and in a lot of ways, I agree with it. But I also know there are times when women and families have found themselves in situations they never thought they'd face and the idea that Church leadership, with all their many problems, coverups, abuses, are taking time out of their day to focus on this is just kind of beyond the pale.

We've had our older child confirmed, and I suppose we'll do the same with the younger one, but to say we are lapsed is an understatement.

My oldest was supposed to receive the Sacrament of Confirmation and attend classes, but my husband and I just could not allow him to go through the process. I actually took both of my children out of youth group and my family no longer attends Mass. I am so sick and beyond disgusted by the coverups and excuses. Child abuse is wrong. As an advocate for children, I can no longer support an institution which is a pedophile ring. I just can't look the other way and go on about my life. I feel like people are basically giving the church a license to abuse their children.

I feel rage against the Catholic church. I do not know how parents of child abuse victims reconcile. My heart goes out to anyone who has been abused by the Catholic church.

Also, after working in developing countries and with rape victims here in the states I got over being against abortion. I had a case once in which a 9 year old girl was rape. There was no way in Hell she should be denied an abortion.

If your child is still letting you make decisions on his behalf about his faith, then he probably is not ready to receive the Holy Spirit and be confirmed yet, and it is good that he didn’t receive the sacrament.
I hope that you are continuing to teach your children at home and pray with them after pulling them from their religious education.
My prayers are with your family.

BS -- you're praying for them to return to a corrupt church.

Ha! No. I am not nearly so powerful. I only said a few short prayers with pp in my thoughts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been struggling for awhile and this abortion statement this week was another blow.

I realize i will get attacked for that, and fine, attack away. I don't expect the Church to change its position, and in a lot of ways, I agree with it. But I also know there are times when women and families have found themselves in situations they never thought they'd face and the idea that Church leadership, with all their many problems, coverups, abuses, are taking time out of their day to focus on this is just kind of beyond the pale.

We've had our older child confirmed, and I suppose we'll do the same with the younger one, but to say we are lapsed is an understatement.

My oldest was supposed to receive the Sacrament of Confirmation and attend classes, but my husband and I just could not allow him to go through the process. I actually took both of my children out of youth group and my family no longer attends Mass. I am so sick and beyond disgusted by the coverups and excuses. Child abuse is wrong. As an advocate for children, I can no longer support an institution which is a pedophile ring. I just can't look the other way and go on about my life. I feel like people are basically giving the church a license to abuse their children.

I feel rage against the Catholic church. I do not know how parents of child abuse victims reconcile. My heart goes out to anyone who has been abused by the Catholic church.

Also, after working in developing countries and with rape victims here in the states I got over being against abortion. I had a case once in which a 9 year old girl was rape. There was no way in Hell she should be denied an abortion.

If your child is still letting you make decisions on his behalf about his faith, then he probably is not ready to receive the Holy Spirit and be confirmed yet, and it is good that he didn’t receive the sacrament.
I hope that you are continuing to teach your children at home and pray with them after pulling them from their religious education.
My prayers are with your family.

BS -- you're praying for them to return to a corrupt church.

Ha! No. I am not nearly so powerful. I only said a few short prayers with pp in my thoughts.

Does God know who you're praying for if you don't even know their name?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been struggling for awhile and this abortion statement this week was another blow.

I realize i will get attacked for that, and fine, attack away. I don't expect the Church to change its position, and in a lot of ways, I agree with it. But I also know there are times when women and families have found themselves in situations they never thought they'd face and the idea that Church leadership, with all their many problems, coverups, abuses, are taking time out of their day to focus on this is just kind of beyond the pale.

We've had our older child confirmed, and I suppose we'll do the same with the younger one, but to say we are lapsed is an understatement.

My oldest was supposed to receive the Sacrament of Confirmation and attend classes, but my husband and I just could not allow him to go through the process. I actually took both of my children out of youth group and my family no longer attends Mass. I am so sick and beyond disgusted by the coverups and excuses. Child abuse is wrong. As an advocate for children, I can no longer support an institution which is a pedophile ring. I just can't look the other way and go on about my life. I feel like people are basically giving the church a license to abuse their children.

I feel rage against the Catholic church. I do not know how parents of child abuse victims reconcile. My heart goes out to anyone who has been abused by the Catholic church.

Also, after working in developing countries and with rape victims here in the states I got over being against abortion. I had a case once in which a 9 year old girl was rape. There was no way in Hell she should be denied an abortion.

If your child is still letting you make decisions on his behalf about his faith, then he probably is not ready to receive the Holy Spirit and be confirmed yet, and it is good that he didn’t receive the sacrament.
I hope that you are continuing to teach your children at home and pray with them after pulling them from their religious education.
My prayers are with your family.

And I’m praying that you see the light and join a different church.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been struggling for awhile and this abortion statement this week was another blow.

I realize i will get attacked for that, and fine, attack away. I don't expect the Church to change its position, and in a lot of ways, I agree with it. But I also know there are times when women and families have found themselves in situations they never thought they'd face and the idea that Church leadership, with all their many problems, coverups, abuses, are taking time out of their day to focus on this is just kind of beyond the pale.

We've had our older child confirmed, and I suppose we'll do the same with the younger one, but to say we are lapsed is an understatement.

My oldest was supposed to receive the Sacrament of Confirmation and attend classes, but my husband and I just could not allow him to go through the process. I actually took both of my children out of youth group and my family no longer attends Mass. I am so sick and beyond disgusted by the coverups and excuses. Child abuse is wrong. As an advocate for children, I can no longer support an institution which is a pedophile ring. I just can't look the other way and go on about my life. I feel like people are basically giving the church a license to abuse their children.

I feel rage against the Catholic church. I do not know how parents of child abuse victims reconcile. My heart goes out to anyone who has been abused by the Catholic church.

Also, after working in developing countries and with rape victims here in the states I got over being against abortion. I had a case once in which a 9 year old girl was rape. There was no way in Hell she should be denied an abortion.

If your child is still letting you make decisions on his behalf about his faith, then he probably is not ready to receive the Holy Spirit and be confirmed yet, and it is good that he didn’t receive the sacrament.
I hope that you are continuing to teach your children at home and pray with them after pulling them from their religious education.
My prayers are with your family.

BS -- you're praying for them to return to a corrupt church.

Ha! No. I am not nearly so powerful. I only said a few short prayers with pp in my thoughts.

Does God know who you're praying for if you don't even know their name?

I don’t know. I, personally, say prayers for people I don’t know all of the time. I’m a psychiatrist, and I often keep the families of my patients in my prayers, even when I don’t know their names. I know how hard it is to have a loved one dealing with serious mental illness or chronic substance use.

I don’t know what’s going on with the previous poster, but I said a prayer for her, and I wish her the best. I can do that without knowing her name.

[Anonymous]

I don't. I can't anymore. It's sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I simply do not understand how people can't see that one major function of the Catholic Church was/is as an organized and coordinated pedophile ring. It is simple indisputable.

Thousands and thousands and thousands of priests abused children on every continent and country. MANY more participated in the the coverup at every level.

My mother left the Catholic Church in her 20s, and I'm so glad we weren't brought up in it. It's sickening how anyone can give the church a penny.

Well, the reason they can’t “see that” is that it isn’t true. You quote alleged thousands of malefactors (without citation and not specifying a timeframe) in an organization currently estimated to have more than a BILLION members. That’s just right now. It doesn’t take account of the untold number of Catholics who have been born, lived and died over the Church’s 2000 year history.

The Roman Church is far from alone in having made employment errors and acted for the good of the organization when it should have been concerned with victims. As has been detailed to death in this and innumerable other threads, every human institution, and even the human part of divine institutions, is bound to have some level of corruption. Don’t the Protestants say people are subject to “absolute depravity?”

In the vast majority of instances, people who promote a vision of the Church focused on the wrongful acts of a few care far less about victims than they do about consoling themselves over some doctrinal difference they have with the Church, typically without any real understanding of the doctrine in question.

EMPLOYMENT ERRORS???? Thank you for confirming one of my biggest reasons for leaving.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a pp and am not Catholic. I have been happily married to my first husband for many years and am currently a grandmother. I have no feelings of guilt relating to behaviors frowned on by the church.

My objections to the Catholic Church come from their incessant attempts at blurring the line separating church and state. These include their history of ignoring abuse of children, as well as trying to halt distribution of birth control and working to criminalize abortion, including in pregnancies of children as young as 10 resulting from incest and in trying to force women to carry a pregnancy even at risk to her own health.

It is one thing for a church to ask its own followers to adhere to its rules, it is another to force your religion down the throats of the of the rest of us.

This.

Plus, the biggest billboards for not continuing were those of my fellow parishioners. They were / are some of the most judgmental, negative, hateful people, who hide under the cloak of religious doctrine to justify their behavior. No thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been struggling for awhile and this abortion statement this week was another blow.

I realize i will get attacked for that, and fine, attack away. I don't expect the Church to change its position, and in a lot of ways, I agree with it. But I also know there are times when women and families have found themselves in situations they never thought they'd face and the idea that Church leadership, with all their many problems, coverups, abuses, are taking time out of their day to focus on this is just kind of beyond the pale.

We've had our older child confirmed, and I suppose we'll do the same with the younger one, but to say we are lapsed is an understatement.

My oldest was supposed to receive the Sacrament of Confirmation and attend classes, but my husband and I just could not allow him to go through the process. I actually took both of my children out of youth group and my family no longer attends Mass. I am so sick and beyond disgusted by the coverups and excuses. Child abuse is wrong. As an advocate for children, I can no longer support an institution which is a pedophile ring. I just can't look the other way and go on about my life. I feel like people are basically giving the church a license to abuse their children.

I feel rage against the Catholic church. I do not know how parents of child abuse victims reconcile. My heart goes out to anyone who has been abused by the Catholic church.

Also, after working in developing countries and with rape victims here in the states I got over being against abortion. I had a case once in which a 9 year old girl was rape. There was no way in Hell she should be denied an abortion.

If your child is still letting you make decisions on his behalf about his faith, then he probably is not ready to receive the Holy Spirit and be confirmed yet, and it is good that he didn’t receive the sacrament.
I hope that you are continuing to teach your children at home and pray with them after pulling them from their religious education.
My prayers are with your family.

You think most 8th graders are exercising independent decisions about their religious education? LOL. I can tell you that they aren't. While I'll allow for the unusual child who does, most go along with what they are told, without having to truly experience anything than challenges their faith, and just follow the path put at their feet. I know you know this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been struggling for awhile and this abortion statement this week was another blow.

I realize i will get attacked for that, and fine, attack away. I don't expect the Church to change its position, and in a lot of ways, I agree with it. But I also know there are times when women and families have found themselves in situations they never thought they'd face and the idea that Church leadership, with all their many problems, coverups, abuses, are taking time out of their day to focus on this is just kind of beyond the pale.

We've had our older child confirmed, and I suppose we'll do the same with the younger one, but to say we are lapsed is an understatement.

My oldest was supposed to receive the Sacrament of Confirmation and attend classes, but my husband and I just could not allow him to go through the process. I actually took both of my children out of youth group and my family no longer attends Mass. I am so sick and beyond disgusted by the coverups and excuses. Child abuse is wrong. As an advocate for children, I can no longer support an institution which is a pedophile ring. I just can't look the other way and go on about my life. I feel like people are basically giving the church a license to abuse their children.

I feel rage against the Catholic church. I do not know how parents of child abuse victims reconcile. My heart goes out to anyone who has been abused by the Catholic church.

Also, after working in developing countries and with rape victims here in the states I got over being against abortion. I had a case once in which a 9 year old girl was rape. There was no way in Hell she should be denied an abortion.

If your child is still letting you make decisions on his behalf about his faith, then he probably is not ready to receive the Holy Spirit and be confirmed yet, and it is good that he didn’t receive the sacrament.
I hope that you are continuing to teach your children at home and pray with them after pulling them from their religious education.
My prayers are with your family.

You think most 8th graders are exercising independent decisions about their religious education? LOL. I can tell you that they aren't. While I'll allow for the unusual child who does, most go along with what they are told, without having to truly experience anything than challenges their faith, and just follow the path put at their feet. I know you know this.

Have you spoken with any middle schoolers recently? In my experience, most kids start having questions about their faith and challenging “the path put at their feet” at about 9 or 10 years old. By 13, they usually have ideas that are quite independent of their parents. It’s the unusual child who would just happily go along with their parents’ huge, sudden changes in religious thought and practice.

Now, I will grant you that eighth graders are still almost entirely dependent on their parents and are highly subject to their whims and moods, so it might not behoove them to express themselves. But that is not because they don’t have their own minds.

It sounds like the previous poster is struggling with some things right now. I wish her peace.