What am I if I think Jesus was the best moral teacher ever but am indifferent re his divinity?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Jesus exists as an historical being. He is most definitely a part of our social consciousness. We all know of him. He is as real to humanity as the Vikings or Henry the VIII. Fighting about proof is silly. Pure silly.

Are we capable of having a conversation that centers on OP's question? It's an interesting one, worthy of examination. If you don't believe in his divinity, what do you make of his (alleged, sigh) moral teachings? Atheists, your voices are probably most interesting here if you choose to focus on the question. Do you respond in any way to those stories, alter them, accept them while ignoring the source? Do you find conflict within yourselves because they make sense to you when the rest of it you refute?

DCUM is a community of highly-educated folks. Does it take a Bobcat to bring us together?

This could be such a cool conversation about moral guidance outside of dogma. Instead, it's just more hubris and bullshit citation whining. WHY? Is it so threatening to respond as a Christian or non-Christian about your thoughts or how you locate your morality?

There is physical proof of the Vikings and Henry VIII, but anyway...

I'm an atheist and I think that all religions have common, good messages for people who might need an external voice to tell them to be a good person. Again, a tool for controlling the masses, mostly for good, but sometimes for bad (wars, etc).

If OP believes there was a Jesus person and believes in his teachings, I personally would still consider her to be a Christian, but not devout. But I guess it matters more what she thinks herself. Not any outside label.

[Anonymous]

I'd consider OP Unitarian and possibly a Christian, depending on how she sees herself, although certainly not Evangelical and closer to Episcopal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you notice it's a beautiful day? You should get outside. And.....for when you get back....you copy & pasted the whole article. What were these specific "great points" you mentioned? Somewhere between the bullying and personal attacks on Lataster?

I think it's against the rules to copy a whole article

Ask Jeff to delete that post.

What the hell is wrong with you people. You don't agree with an excerpted article, you aren't capable of arguing against it, so you run to the moderator to ask him to delete it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'd consider OP Unitarian and possibly a Christian, depending on how she sees herself, although certainly not Evangelical and closer to Episcopal.

I think this as well although the Unitarian church doesn't always follow Christian teaching does it?

Back to the Talmud post that says most of Jesus's teachings were from Judaism, what teachings of Jesus are taught by many religions and not just Christianity? What of those are espoused by Unitarians?

[Anonymous]

There is a significant mystical element to Christian & Catholic metaphysics (like the metaphysics of many other religions) which is irreducible to logical analysis.

Unquestioning belief in an abstraction--"the divinity of Christ"--does that make you a "Christian" if you are simply parroting the words of authority figures but do not have a spirtiual, intuitive understanding of what it means?

The Bible is filled with parables about people struggling with belief, and to believe. What do those parables mean? Where do you fit in?

Only a fool or child blindly believes in anything, without constantly questioning that belief.

Where you believe Jesus to have been divine is entirely a personal matter for your conscience. If that belief on your part, whatever it is, should cause someone else to label you "Christian" or "NOT Christian" is meaningless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is a significant mystical element to Christian & Catholic metaphysics (like the metaphysics of many other religions) which is irreducible to logical analysis.

Unquestioning belief in an abstraction--"the divinity of Christ"--does that make you a "Christian" if you are simply parroting the words of authority figures but do not have a spirtiual, intuitive understanding of what it means?

The Bible is filled with parables about people struggling with belief, and to believe. What do those parables mean? Where do you fit in?

Only a fool or child blindly believes in anything, without constantly questioning that belief.

Where you believe Jesus to have been divine is entirely a personal matter for your conscience. If that belief on your part, whatever it is, should cause someone else to label you "Christian" or "NOT Christian" is meaningless.

^^^ most helpful post in entire thread

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you notice it's a beautiful day? You should get outside. And.....for when you get back....you copy & pasted the whole article. What were these specific "great points" you mentioned? Somewhere between the bullying and personal attacks on Lataster?

I think it's against the rules to copy a whole article

Ask Jeff to delete that post.

What the hell is wrong with you people. You don't agree with an excerpted article, you aren't capable of arguing against it, so you run to the moderator to ask him to delete it?

Uh no....asking to delete if PP posted most of an article (against Jeff's rules) instead of just pulling out relevant points.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you notice it's a beautiful day? You should get outside. And.....for when you get back....you copy & pasted the whole article. What were these specific "great points" you mentioned? Somewhere between the bullying and personal attacks on Lataster?

I think it's against the rules to copy a whole article

Ask Jeff to delete that post.

What the hell is wrong with you people. You don't agree with an excerpted article, you aren't capable of arguing against it, so you run to the moderator to ask him to delete it?

Uh no....asking to delete if PP posted most of an article (against Jeff's rules) instead of just pulling out relevant points.

Omg the whinging. DCUM's atheists' stellar minds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is a significant mystical element to Christian & Catholic metaphysics (like the metaphysics of many other religions) which is irreducible to logical analysis.

Unquestioning belief in an abstraction--"the divinity of Christ"--does that make you a "Christian" if you are simply parroting the words of authority figures but do not have a spirtiual, intuitive understanding of what it means?

The Bible is filled with parables about people struggling with belief, and to believe. What do those parables mean? Where do you fit in?

Only a fool or child blindly believes in anything, without constantly questioning that belief.

Where you believe Jesus to have been divine is entirely a personal matter for your conscience. If that belief on your part, whatever it is, should cause someone else to label you "Christian" or "NOT Christian" is meaningless.

Depends on the belief. Certainly religious beliefs that revolve around miracles of nature are hard to believe, like rising from the dead and living forever, or burning forever as a punishment for sin. but other beliefs are easier to hold on to -- like the value of treating others humanely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd consider OP Unitarian and possibly a Christian, depending on how she sees herself, although certainly not Evangelical and closer to Episcopal.

I think this as well although the Unitarian church doesn't always follow Christian teaching does it?

Back to the Talmud post that says most of Jesus's teachings were from Judaism, what teachings of Jesus are taught by many religions and not just Christianity? What of those are espoused by Unitarians?

Jesus actually departed from Judaism in significant ways. No dietary rules, no eye-for-eye justice, no divorce, and then there's the whole sin-forgiving thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Jesus exists as an historical being. He is most definitely a part of our social consciousness. We all know of him. He is as real to humanity as the Vikings or Henry the VIII. Fighting about proof is silly. Pure silly.

Are we capable of having a conversation that centers on OP's question? It's an interesting one, worthy of examination. If you don't believe in his divinity, what do you make of his (alleged, sigh) moral teachings? Atheists, your voices are probably most interesting here if you choose to focus on the question. Do you respond in any way to those stories, alter them, accept them while ignoring the source? Do you find conflict within yourselves because they make sense to you when the rest of it you refute?

DCUM is a community of highly-educated folks. Does it take a Bobcat to bring us together?

This could be such a cool conversation about moral guidance outside of dogma. Instead, it's just more hubris and bullshit citation whining. WHY? Is it so threatening to respond as a Christian or non-Christian about your thoughts or how you locate your morality?

I responded early on in this thread that I consider myself a Christian atheist. I believe that the world beyond this one is unknowable, but that to the extent we can know anything we know we are all living in this curent world together, so there is value in any teachings that help us do that better. For me the teachings and words of Christ are one place to find that kind of inspiration, and I see it all through that lens.

[Anonymous]

23:42 again. To address the point of conflict - no, I don't have any conflict about gleaning what I can from the Bible within my context of beliefs and leaving the rest. I see it as a document compiled over time by humans, so this just doesn't bother me because I treat it as a text for provoking thought and reflection rather than as an explicit guide. I have had periods of significant conflict about religion because of the beliefs and expectations of others around me and figuring out how I fit within that, but no conflict with the Bible per se.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd consider OP Unitarian and possibly a Christian, depending on how she sees herself, although certainly not Evangelical and closer to Episcopal.

I think this as well although the Unitarian church doesn't always follow Christian teaching does it?

Back to the Talmud post that says most of Jesus's teachings were from Judaism, what teachings of Jesus are taught by many religions and not just Christianity? What of those are espoused by Unitarians?

It depends on the Unitarian Congregation. Unitarian Congregations in Europe are generally categorized under Christianity. The Unitarian Christian Church sees itself as Christian too. There is one on 16th street in DC. Unitarian- Universalists Congregations are all over the map- most have several UU-Christians in their midst.