HGC crowd is downright frightening!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I just find it interesting that this can degenerated into a discussion of planned/unplanned pregnancies yet no one disputes that HGC parents skew older. To me this just confirms HGC attendance has everything to do with who fills out the paperwork, and little to do with the child.

Older than what or whom?

Not to mention that there are plenty of "old" parents who fill out the paperwork, but their child doesn't get in.

Older than the average MCPS 4th grade parent, older than the average 4th grade parent at the school housing the program, older than the average 4th grade parent at the home school of the HGC student. My guess is all of these are true. And, yes, there are many possible explanations for this and no it does not imply the converse--older parent guarantees admission.

My guess is that none of these are true. There, now we have two guesses!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I just find it interesting that this can degenerated into a discussion of planned/unplanned pregnancies yet no one disputes that HGC parents skew older. To me this just confirms HGC attendance has everything to do with who fills out the paperwork, and little to do with the child.

Older than what or whom?

Not to mention that there are plenty of "old" parents who fill out the paperwork, but their child doesn't get in.

Older than the average MCPS 4th grade parent, older than the average 4th grade parent at the school housing the program, older than the average 4th grade parent at the home school of the HGC student. My guess is all of these are true. And, yes, there are many possible explanations for this and no it does not imply the converse--older parent guarantees admission.

My guess is that none of these are true. There, now we have two guesses!

[Anonymous]

I couldn't follow all the digressions in this thread. But speaking about why people are more obsessed with HGC, has anyone mentioned that the current state of MCPS with their 2.0 curriculum could possibly be the culprit? I don't ever remember this being such an issue when my son was in MCPS elementary school...he is in 9th grade now (private school). Perhaps parents are so dissatisfied with the current state of affairs and more are hoping to get into the HGC program...hence all the discussion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I couldn't follow all the digressions in this thread. But speaking about why people are more obsessed with HGC, has anyone mentioned that the current state of MCPS with their 2.0 curriculum could possibly be the culprit? I don't ever remember this being such an issue when my son was in MCPS elementary school...he is in 9th grade now (private school). Perhaps parents are so dissatisfied with the current state of affairs and more are hoping to get into the HGC program...hence all the discussion.

You might not remember it, but in fact it was just as much an issue (on DCUM, that is) before Curriculum 2.0.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I couldn't follow all the digressions in this thread. But speaking about why people are more obsessed with HGC, has anyone mentioned that the current state of MCPS with their 2.0 curriculum could possibly be the culprit? I don't ever remember this being such an issue when my son was in MCPS elementary school...he is in 9th grade now (private school). Perhaps parents are so dissatisfied with the current state of affairs and more are hoping to get into the HGC program...hence all the discussion.

You might not remember it, but in fact it was just as much an issue (on DCUM, that is) before Curriculum 2.0.

I agree, my kids were pre 2.0 and the MCPS developed curriculum was awful then as well. I wish MCPS would get out of the business of developing curriculum, use curriculum that has been prepared by SUBJECT matter experts, tested (on someone other than our kids) and proven successful.

I also think that flexible ability grouping (not tracking) would help a lot. It would mean each child would get full attention at his/her level.

Finally, I think parents would feel better if they had more feedback. Homework checked for accuracy not just completeness, tests that aren't treated like state secrets, and meaningful grades on the report card I think would help. My kids are old enough they actually had teacher comments on their report cards and that's where I was best able to understand their strengths and weaknesses.

Even if you implemented all of these measures, I'm sure there would still be some kids who needed more, but I think the demand would decrease significantly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It's because some kids REALLY need a different environment than their home school can provide.
And their parents cannot afford private school.

It's agonizing when you see your gifted child (130+ IQ) completely unappreciated and unrecognized at the home school. Then they come home every afternoon and throw themselves on books and ask to be taken to the library every day.

Was that a Freudian slip? You say your child suffers at school because he is unappreciated and unrecognized? It's a tenuous enough argument for HGCs just when parents feel their children aren't challenged enough. There is absolutely no argument to be made for HGCs just because children are not made to feel special enough in their classrooms.

Parents like that do a number on their kids. I blame them for the recent college grads at my office who expect a ribbon and a juicebox just for doing their job...and rolling their eyes when you ask them to do something administrative like fetch copies.

I don't tolerate it when my kids whine about being bored, and they know better than to do that. They can entertain themselves, challenge themselves, etc. If your kid can't, then that's on you.

You don't understand, and if your children are not like that, then I don't expect you to understand. However a little sympathy, instead of an attack on my parenting skills, would be welcome.

I'm a strict parent and do not expect children to be complimented for doing normal things like chores and homework, and getting good grades.
I DO expect a child with special needs, such as gifts or learning disorders (because they are BOTH special needs, on either side of the spectrum), to be recognized as such by the teacher and school, and to be adequately supported by being given more challenging work or being given paraeducator help, whatever the need may be.
If these needs are not recognized, then children start to think they're stupid. Children learn to hide their talents. Children start thinking they're weirdos and aliens and shut down. They can become depressed or suicidal. They feel they don't belong, doubt themselves and disengage. That path does not lead to a healthy, successful, life!!!

I have another child who will do well wherever she goes. She is a bright self-starting high-achiever. Yet she does NOT have this devouring intellectual curiosity and mental rigor that my gifted child has. I need to help the child who has the gifts and whom teachers disregard completely.

This is really melodramatic. You are proving the OP's point. Now we fear kids who don't get into HGCs will become depressed and suicidal?

No, it's not. I don't think she's saying those that don't get in will be suicidal, rather that some who get in might be suicidal otherwise. I'm a different poster, but I had a child like this. Before kindergarten, dc was so excited about learning. I had to practically drag dc out of the library, promising we could come back later for more books. Dc would pick out books on geography, all kinds of science, history, etc. You name it, dc wanted to know it. By third grade, dc had shut down. Dc hated school, didn't feel dc was learning anything and was apathetic about learning. Add to this severe bullying issues (not helped when the teacher announced dc's MAP-R scores to the class). Dc wasn't suicidal yet, but I was scared dc would be in a few years if we didn't turn things around. I still shudder at the memory of dc's eyes at that time.

Going to the center gave dc the opportunity to feel like dc was learning something. Dc had a chance at normal peer interactions, although dc was still somewhat traumatized from her previous school. Even people who knew dc in other settings commented on how much difference there was in dc.

I also had a second child who was very bright and motivated. Both kids were in the HGC. The second child did more with the opportunities afforded by going to the magnet, but my first child needed it more. My second child would have flourished wherever dc2 went, but I really don't know what would have happened to my oldest if left dc in first school. If dc hadn't gotten in the HGC, I would have home-schooled her because I was literally terrified for her.

However, I suspect the kids who don't get in probably fall more in the category of my second child (they could benefit greatly from it, but will do just fine without it). My experience suggests the number of kids who are damaged without it is a smaller percentage of those admitted to the centers. I just wish dc could have had something earlier, before the crisis, before dc started shutting down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow, this thread has totally become FUBAR. But, to add to the discussion about sentence diagramming, they don't seem to have a separate grammar lesson, but, I will say that DS is a much better writer than I am at that age even though I did learn grammar the old-fashion way. They seem to focus on critical and creative thinking rather than the mechanics of the writing. I think the mechanics can come later, but the critical and creative thinking should be encouraged from the get go. I think at this age, they need to see writing as fun and creating, and I think if they focused too much on the mechanics, writing would become boring pretty quickly.

I will say, though, that I have let my DCs watch School House Rock's "Conjunction Junction What's your Function". I love School House Rock. That is surely timeless.

How old is your kid?

The fifth grade teachers at our school went into panic mode when 3/4 of the entire 5th grade couldn't write a basic paragraph. They reached out to other 5th grade teachers at other schools across the county and to make a long story short, mcps discovered that yet another shortcoming of 2.0 is that they failed to adequately teach writing. So they dropped everything and went back to the old way of teaching (much younger kids) how to write a paragraph---then worked their way up to three paragraphs.

This happened last year to the 2.0 guinea pigs.

So you probably should rely on the mechanics to come later. They didn't for 5th graders last year, and it caused a literal frenzy.

Fwiw, this wasn't a Title I or Focus school. These were upper class mostly white kids...and they couldn't write a basic paragraph in 5th grade.

That's probably why parents freak out about HGCs. I get it now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

How old is your kid?

The fifth grade teachers at our school went into panic mode when 3/4 of the entire 5th grade couldn't write a basic paragraph. They reached out to other 5th grade teachers at other schools across the county and to make a long story short, mcps discovered that yet another shortcoming of 2.0 is that they failed to adequately teach writing. So they dropped everything and went back to the old way of teaching (much younger kids) how to write a paragraph---then worked their way up to three paragraphs.

This happened last year to the 2.0 guinea pigs.

So you probably should rely on the mechanics to come later. They didn't for 5th graders last year, and it caused a literal frenzy.

Fwiw, this wasn't a Title I or Focus school. These were upper class mostly white kids...and they couldn't write a basic paragraph in 5th grade.

That's probably why parents freak out about HGCs. I get it now.

That's odd, given that my kid has been writing multi-paragraph pieces of writing at school since second grade, in a school that does not have upper-class, mostly-white kids. I wonder why the upper-class, mostly-white kids were incapable of it?

[Anonymous]

As a veteran MCPS teacher, I can assure you that the writing process has been given the short end of the stick since C2.0. My colleagues and I do our best to emphasize the importance of clear, well-organized writing, with proper spelling and grammar. But the writing process--from deciding on a topic through a final draft--is very time-consuming, if done right, and time is the one thing we do not have in our poorly written, jam-packed curriculum.

I agree wholeheartedly with the poster who proposed that MCPS stop writing curriculum and instead use something off-athe-shelf, but proven. Writing curriculum is an art. It can be done well, but the people who wrote C2.0 failed miserably. Want proof? Just ask yourself how many school systems have bought C2.0. As far as I know, the answer is near, or at, zero.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

How old is your kid?

The fifth grade teachers at our school went into panic mode when 3/4 of the entire 5th grade couldn't write a basic paragraph. They reached out to other 5th grade teachers at other schools across the county and to make a long story short, mcps discovered that yet another shortcoming of 2.0 is that they failed to adequately teach writing. So they dropped everything and went back to the old way of teaching (much younger kids) how to write a paragraph---then worked their way up to three paragraphs.

This happened last year to the 2.0 guinea pigs.

So you probably should rely on the mechanics to come later. They didn't for 5th graders last year, and it caused a literal frenzy.

Fwiw, this wasn't a Title I or Focus school. These were upper class mostly white kids...and they couldn't write a basic paragraph in 5th grade.

That's probably why parents freak out about HGCs. I get it now.

That's odd, given that my kid has been writing multi-paragraph pieces of writing at school since second grade, in a school that does not have upper-class, mostly-white kids. I wonder why the upper-class, mostly-white kids were incapable of it?

Because they are not Asian. We really need to close the horrible white vs. Asian achievement gap in MCPS. Those white kids' self-esteem might be hurt, though, so let's be sure to sugar coat the reasons for their failure to keep up. Please don't suggest that it might be that the Asian kids just work harder! Snowflake Griffin and his sister Michele (Yes, just one l...and you had better spell that "right" you loser) need time to practice for the big lacrosse game!

[Anonymous]

^^^What are you talking about?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a veteran MCPS teacher, I can assure you that the writing process has been given the short end of the stick since C2.0. My colleagues and I do our best to emphasize the importance of clear, well-organized writing, with proper spelling and grammar. But the writing process--from deciding on a topic through a final draft--is very time-consuming, if done right, and time is the one thing we do not have in our poorly written, jam-packed curriculum.

I agree wholeheartedly with the poster who proposed that MCPS stop writing curriculum and instead use something off-athe-shelf, but proven. Writing curriculum is an art. It can be done well, but the people who wrote C2.0 failed miserably. Want proof? Just ask yourself how many school systems have bought C2.0. As far as I know, the answer is near, or at, zero.

As a veteran MCPS parent, here is my experience of the writing curriculum before and with Curriculum 2.0.

Before Curriculum 2.0: BCRs. That's it. Just BCRs. Only BCRs, written so as to score the highest number of points on the MSA.
With Curriclum 2:0: many different kinds of writing, including fiction, non-fiction, narrative, and opinion (among other things), and not strictly glued to a rigid grading rubric.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, this thread has totally become FUBAR. But, to add to the discussion about sentence diagramming, they don't seem to have a separate grammar lesson, but, I will say that DS is a much better writer than I am at that age even though I did learn grammar the old-fashion way. They seem to focus on critical and creative thinking rather than the mechanics of the writing. I think the mechanics can come later, but the critical and creative thinking should be encouraged from the get go. I think at this age, they need to see writing as fun and creating, and I think if they focused too much on the mechanics, writing would become boring pretty quickly.

I will say, though, that I have let my DCs watch School House Rock's "Conjunction Junction What's your Function". I love School House Rock. That is surely timeless.

How old is your kid?

The fifth grade teachers at our school went into panic mode when 3/4 of the entire 5th grade couldn't write a basic paragraph. They reached out to other 5th grade teachers at other schools across the county and to make a long story short, mcps discovered that yet another shortcoming of 2.0 is that they failed to adequately teach writing. So they dropped everything and went back to the old way of teaching (much younger kids) how to write a paragraph---then worked their way up to three paragraphs.

This happened last year to the 2.0 guinea pigs.

So you probably should rely on the mechanics to come later. They didn't for 5th graders last year, and it caused a literal frenzy.

Fwiw, this wasn't a Title I or Focus school. These were upper class mostly white kids...and they couldn't write a basic paragraph in 5th grade.

That's probably why parents freak out about HGCs. I get it now.

PP here. My kid is in 5th. DS wrote a poem at the beginning of 5th grade that was quite impressive. My sister read it and thought some adult wrote it. I could never have written such a poem even in HS. If I did, the grammar would've been perfect, but the poem would've sucked.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Or we let out all our angst here, so we can be supportive to our kids.

no - Most of you are THAT crazy.

Chill, folks! Some kids move into MS/HS magnets after HGC; others don't.

How will you handle the rejection if they don't test in?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Or we let out all our angst here, so we can be supportive to our kids.

no - Most of you are THAT crazy.

Chill, folks! Some kids move into MS/HS magnets after HGC; others don't.

How will you handle the rejection if they don't test in?

go read the other MS/HS magnet thread. Talk about angst.