No doing well with Common Core, but we'll with Singapore math

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Not that PP. Doubles are not the last way to add, they are one of the first ways. One strategy, to use at the beginning of learning about addition. They are not the end goal, although bad math programs/teachers might teach them as if they are. Just one way to use numbers. PP was showing that even Singapore math describes them as a first method, before students memorize addition facts.

There's no need to get angry about doubles, counting on, etc. These are very junior-level strategies that students will soon move on from.

Again, no, Singapore Math does not use doubles. They do have books dedicated to Common Core specifically and maybe that's where people keep getting this quote from.

The original, regular Singapore math does not use doubles. At all. I have used their books for 2-3 years now. No, there is no doubes concept in there. Period.

I don't understand why people are getting so hung up on doubles. Doubles are one possible strategy, of many. Whether or not Singapore Math uses doubles, doubles are a strategy that students can (and do) use. It would be foolish to say, "If it's not in Singapore Math, it's not a good strategy." Singapore Math is a good curriculum, in my experience with K-8, but it's not the alpha and omega of math curricula, forever and ever, amen. Indeed the schools in Singapore don't even use Singapore Math anymore, or so I've heard.

[Anonymous]

Yes, OP, the issue is with this specific workbook. Complain to the teacher that the instructions are not clear. I bet the teacher wouldn't necessarily know how to answer some of these questions without her instruction book.

Having stated that, some of the strategies are actually good and will teach a kid how to do math quickly later on. Think of it this way... double 8 = 16, so if the child has to quickly answer 8+7 or 8+9, child should easily know the answer based on the double and count 1 strategies.

[Anonymous]

OP, one of the PPs pointing out the lack of clarity in the directions. I figured out what to do by looking at the instructions and then putting them together with the equations below them to infer the missing steps in the instructions and figure out the answers.

Truthfully, I am completely stumped on how one would tutor a first grader on strategies to use to overcome poor instructions and would argue that a six year old should not be put in such a position. As the worksheets are taking a lot of language shortcuts there was an expectation on the part of the publishers that the teacher had thoroughly gone over the steps with the class and spent a fair amount of time on the foundations.

I can only guess a couple of things. Perhaps the teacher did not do this and is just shoving the work sheets at the kids with little prior instruction. Or she did all this orally and your child has some weakness in pragmatic listening skills. That would indicate perhaps your child would benefit from an SLP, but you should have had some hint in everyday life that your child has problems with multistep oral directions.

I would maintain that the sheet that required the child to solve the problem, identify the type, and color code it was developmentally inappropriate for most first graders.

[Anonymous]

OP - I really think the issue is probably with the teacher and/or the worksheets, not the standards. Have you ever read the actual standards? They are actually pretty good, wordy, but good. Someone posted a comparison of CC math standards to VA SOL standards, and it was quite similar.

http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/10/when-teachers-need-help-in-math/381022/

"But many elementary and middle school teachers “don’t view themselves as experts,” said William Haver, a professor of mathematics at Virginia Commonwealth University who helped design his state’s math specialist program. Most undergraduate programs for teachers tend to emphasize language arts and give short shrift to mathematics, which means that teachers “often feel inadequate” even after years of teaching the subject, he said. Although most schools have offered their teachers some kind of professional development since the Common Core math goals were released in 2010, many teachers say they still feel unprepared. Pat Campbell, a University of Maryland math education researcher, said this uneasiness is not surprising. Research has repeatedly shown that short-term professional development just isn’t an effective way to make these kinds of major changes, she said."

In my DC's school, starting from 3rd grade, they have a separate teacher who focuses on math and science. The 3rd grade math teacher that my DC had was excellent (DC is now in advanced math 5th grade). DC still says this teacher is DC's favorite teacher. But, this teacher has a background in science (undergrad was in science field not just "education"). I suspect many ES teachers teaching math don't have the background they need to teach math effectively under the new standards because it requires the teacher to grasp math at a different level, and not just be able to teach 1+1=2.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can you give examples of the kinds of problems your first grader has been given? My first grader is currently doing math mountains and word problems, not complex stuff for a parent to figure out at all.

Here are a couple of examples she gets from school. This is the kind where I go "what the f--- ?" On the bottom one I think they were told by the teacher to use only two numbers, not three. She wouldn't have thought of this herself.

As pointed out, common core are standards not the curriculum.

As far as the worksheets go... it seems like the issue is with identifying the strategies and vocabulary, or with reading and understanding the directions. That may be an area to practice at home to help her be more successful at school.

Doubles facts: 1+1, 2+2, etc
Doubles plus 1: 1=2, 2+3, etc
Count on - counting on by 1, 2, or 3: 5+2, 6+3, etc

Rote memorization is a horrible way to learn math, because there is no true understanding to it. Developing number sense and mental math strategies is not just a "common core" idea.

The second one it's asking if you see a problem like 3+3+6= how can you group the numbers to help you add. You can group 3+3 into 6, so then the problem becomes 6+6=12, so it's right. Say you had the problem 2+2+3+3 you could group it into 4+6.

What a crock of SHIT! You repeating this over and over doesn't make it true.

At younger ages CONCRETE LEARNING IS BEST!

That was my first post on this thread.

Concrete learning is best. Which is why rote memorization is NOT best.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This OP writing. I have narrowed it down to the fact that DD does pretty good in the actual math, adding and subtracting, comparison, etc.

Where she fails is comprehending what CC instructions tell her to do. (And who can blame her?)

The question is what should I do?

Should I just not worry about it since her math is at a good level. Or should I tutor her on reading and comprehending the school worksheets instructions?

OP, the two worksheets you posted didn't seem at all complicated to me.

They were the "color the doubles" facts worksheet, right? So your kid didn't know what a "doubles" fact was.... can you help her try to figure stuff like that out? A "double" means you have 2 of something... which facts have 2 of the same thing?

The other worksheet question seemed pretty clear to me too. The teacher was supposed to read aloud the "real world" story at the bottom of the page. The story was "There are 3 kids at one table, 6 kids at another table, and 4 kids standing in line. How many kids are there in all?"

The question asked was to group those numbers two different ways. OK, your kid didn't understand how to do that. But help her think it through. What does it mean to group numbers different ways? You could group 3+6 together and then add 3 right? So one answer is 3+6....+3 or 9+3 = 12

Or you can group them 3+3+6 or 6+6 = 12

What I'm saying is, these instructions really aren't so opaque. When your kid doesn't get it, tell her we'll go back to the top of the page and read all the instructions and think a little bit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP - I really think the issue is probably with the teacher and/or the worksheets, not the standards. Have you ever read the actual standards? They are actually pretty good, wordy, but good. Someone posted a comparison of CC math standards to VA SOL standards, and it was quite similar.

http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/10/when-teachers-need-help-in-math/381022/

"But many elementary and middle school teachers “don’t view themselves as experts,” said William Haver, a professor of mathematics at Virginia Commonwealth University who helped design his state’s math specialist program. Most undergraduate programs for teachers tend to emphasize language arts and give short shrift to mathematics, which means that teachers “often feel inadequate” even after years of teaching the subject, he said. Although most schools have offered their teachers some kind of professional development since the Common Core math goals were released in 2010, many teachers say they still feel unprepared. Pat Campbell, a University of Maryland math education researcher, said this uneasiness is not surprising. Research has repeatedly shown that short-term professional development just isn’t an effective way to make these kinds of major changes, she said."

In my DC's school, starting from 3rd grade, they have a separate teacher who focuses on math and science. The 3rd grade math teacher that my DC had was excellent (DC is now in advanced math 5th grade). DC still says this teacher is DC's favorite teacher. But, this teacher has a background in science (undergrad was in science field not just "education"). I suspect many ES teachers teaching math don't have the background they need to teach math effectively under the new standards because it requires the teacher to grasp math at a different level, and not just be able to teach 1+1=2.

I have no problem with standards at all. I doubt that any parents have problem with standards. What I have a problem is the way they teach kids, the methods, the curriculum. My DD gets completely confused about what she's asked to do. And she's not struggling with language. She's ahead of class in language arts, she reads chapter books and understands them.

I don't think it's a brain science to explain to the first grader the basic arithmetic. You just have to be consistent and clear. If you're going to introduce 3 different ways to solve one problem at this age:
7+5=12 7+1+1+1+1+1 or 6+6 or 7+3+2,
IMHO it's confusing to the kids because they don't know any methods yet. They just need one to get started. Which one should they practice?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

OP, the two worksheets you posted didn't seem at all complicated to me.

But you're not a six year old, are you?

I don't know. I look at the instructions on Singapore Math, on Kumon, even Critical Thinking Mathematical reasoning. The latter on is very wordy but is clear and at least very logical.
When I see DD's worksheets she brings from school I find them hard to read myself.

[Anonymous]

This does look like go math to me. My DS6 is using it in first grade. He has no issues. While I think the Singapore Math is superior to this, i dont see a lot of difference between the two curricula in methods. I think you should try to help your DD figure out how to deal with this. This is not a bad curriculum, compared to many others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I have no problem with standards at all. I doubt that any parents have problem with standards. What I have a problem is the way they teach kids, the methods, the curriculum. My DD gets completely confused about what she's asked to do. And she's not struggling with language. She's ahead of class in language arts, she reads chapter books and understands them.

I don't think it's a brain science to explain to the first grader the basic arithmetic. You just have to be consistent and clear. If you're going to introduce 3 different ways to solve one problem at this age:
7+5=12 7+1+1+1+1+1 or 6+6 or 7+3+2,
IMHO it's confusing to the kids because they don't know any methods yet. They just need one to get started. Which one should they practice?

What is your experience and background in teaching math to first-graders?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - I really think the issue is probably with the teacher and/or the worksheets, not the standards. Have you ever read the actual standards? They are actually pretty good, wordy, but good. Someone posted a comparison of CC math standards to VA SOL standards, and it was quite similar.

http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/10/when-teachers-need-help-in-math/381022/

"But many elementary and middle school teachers “don’t view themselves as experts,” said William Haver, a professor of mathematics at Virginia Commonwealth University who helped design his state’s math specialist program. Most undergraduate programs for teachers tend to emphasize language arts and give short shrift to mathematics, which means that teachers “often feel inadequate” even after years of teaching the subject, he said. Although most schools have offered their teachers some kind of professional development since the Common Core math goals were released in 2010, many teachers say they still feel unprepared. Pat Campbell, a University of Maryland math education researcher, said this uneasiness is not surprising. Research has repeatedly shown that short-term professional development just isn’t an effective way to make these kinds of major changes, she said."

In my DC's school, starting from 3rd grade, they have a separate teacher who focuses on math and science. The 3rd grade math teacher that my DC had was excellent (DC is now in advanced math 5th grade). DC still says this teacher is DC's favorite teacher. But, this teacher has a background in science (undergrad was in science field not just "education"). I suspect many ES teachers teaching math don't have the background they need to teach math effectively under the new standards because it requires the teacher to grasp math at a different level, and not just be able to teach 1+1=2.

I have no problem with standards at all. I doubt that any parents have problem with standards. What I have a problem is the way they teach kids, the methods, the curriculum. My DD gets completely confused about what she's asked to do. And she's not struggling with language. She's ahead of class in language arts, she reads chapter books and understands them.

I don't think it's a brain science to explain to the first grader the basic arithmetic. You just have to be consistent and clear. If you're going to introduce 3 different ways to solve one problem at this age:
7+5=12 7+1+1+1+1+1 or 6+6 or 7+3+2,
IMHO it's confusing to the kids because they don't know any methods yet. They just need one to get started. Which one should they practice?

I disagree. I think it's great to teach a 6/7 yr old how to add 2 numbers in different ways. It gives them an understanding of how numbers work. When a young child first starts to learn to add, how do they do it? Most of them start counting with their fingers, so 7+1+1+1. This was how we taught our DCs at home at 5 or so when they would ask addition type questions. We would tell them to work it out by counting up from one of the numbers. Then you teach them, well the 1+1+1=3, so 7+3. Then you teach them what makes up a 3 -- 2 and 1, so 7+2+1. This can all be taught within a few days.

Teaching a 6/7 yr old to add 3 + 7 without a basic understanding of counting up from 7 would be too difficult as they have little number sense.

[Anonymous]

I agree with the pp. This is the natural way of teaching kids math. I think the OP's DD doesn't understand math as well as she thinks. it is not just the curriculum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I disagree. I think it's great to teach a 6/7 yr old how to add 2 numbers in different ways. It gives them an understanding of how numbers work. When a young child first starts to learn to add, how do they do it? Most of them start counting with their fingers, so 7+1+1+1. This was how we taught our DCs at home at 5 or so when they would ask addition type questions. We would tell them to work it out by counting up from one of the numbers. Then you teach them, well the 1+1+1=3, so 7+3. Then you teach them what makes up a 3 -- 2 and 1, so 7+2+1. This can all be taught within a few days.

Teaching a 6/7 yr old to add 3 + 7 without a basic understanding of counting up from 7 would be too difficult as they have little number sense.

It's not very efficient to teach all these different methods. What I like about SIngapore Math is that it is a curriculum that just spells out one way (the most efficient) to teach kids in the early years to get to the answer. There is a logical progression and it all makes sense.

I didn't realize that Singapore Math didn't use the concept of "doubles" facts. But if they are doing counting on as +1,+2 and +3 facts, and then any fact that is over 10 is taught via the "make a ten" strategy, the only facts that are left to just plain memorize are 4+4 and 4+5. I'd still use "doubles" and "double plus one" to teach those; I don't know how Singapore does it.

So you teach kids first their +0 facts
Then to "count on" by 1, 2 and 3 (the +1, +2 and +3 facts)
Then memorize number bonds to 10 (three of which also are counting on facts)
1+9, 2+8, 3+7, 4+6, 5+5
Then you have them memorize 4+4 and 4+5

That's all the facts that sum to 10 or fewer.

The rest of the basic facts you teach through the "make a ten strategy"

6+5 = (6+4)+1 = 10 +1 = 11
6+6 = (6+4) +2 = 10+ 2= 12
6+7 = (6+4) +3 = 10+3= 13
6+8 = (6+4) + 4 = 10+4= 14
6+9 = (6+4) + 5 = 10+5 = 15

7+4 = (7+3)+1 = 10+1 = 11

etc.

What you DON'T do is then turn around and give different ways to solve those problems, and make them color worksheets saying "this is a doubles fact" or have them find all the different ways you can add 6 and 9 (like 6 +2+3+4 or whatever). Just pick ONE way and use it over and over until the facts are fluid.

I think this is where a lot of teachers (and curricula) go wrong -- in implying that kids need to break down numbers (decompose them) just to put them together again willy nilly. You don't do that. You break them down for a specific purpose -- to be able to use the make a ten strategy. Keep the end goal in mind and don't do a lot of this filler stuff for no reason.

[Anonymous]

PP at 7:42, what is your education and experience in teaching math to 5-6-7-year-olds? Everybody seems to think that they learned math when they were 5-6-7, so they know how to teach math to 5-6-7-year-olds. But that's not true.

I have used Singapore Math with my 2 children, so I feel confident saying that Singapore Math works with the two children I have used it with. But I am not going to go around saying that Singapore Math works with every child, or that I am an expert in teaching math, or that Singapore Math's way is the only way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP at 7:42, what is your education and experience in teaching math to 5-6-7-year-olds? Everybody seems to think that they learned math when they were 5-6-7, so they know how to teach math to 5-6-7-year-olds. But that's not true.

I have used Singapore Math with my 2 children, so I feel confident saying that Singapore Math works with the two children I have used it with. But I am not going to go around saying that Singapore Math works with every child, or that I am an expert in teaching math, or that Singapore Math's way is the only way.

I have used Saxon math with one of my children and to a lesser extent Singapore with the other. What I can say is that neither uses confusing directions. I just don't see how PPs are defending poor instructions as there is simply no excuse to do so for children.

I had one child who did Everyday Math--not much liked on DCUM. It was very language heavy and not well written. Fortunately, my high language child had it and I remember being so thankful that my other poor language skills child had a much more traditional curriculum.

The work sheets OP offered flashed me back to Everyday Math. Could it be that the die hard Every Day math supporters dreamed up some of the work books for implementing Common Core?