Teachers - How Hard is Your Job, Really?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can think of a hundred jobs where people stand on their feet all day and can't pee on a whim. Geez

How many of these 100's of these standing jobs without bathroom breaks require a college education and often a master's degree? I can't think of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can think of a hundred jobs where people stand on their feet all day and can't pee on a whim. Geez

How many of these 100's of these standing jobs without bathroom breaks require a college education and often a master's degree? I can't think of them.

Well, surgeons. But they get paid a lot, and people respect them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is the bar is relatively low to become a teacher. One can graduate from Podunk University and major in "Education" which is considered one of the easiest majors around. On top of that, college GPA really doesn't matter. Theoretically, you could have plenty of teachers who graduated with a degree in Education from a place like Bowie State College with a gpa of 2.8. I know there are teachers with masters degrees but typically the degree will be from GMU or JMU in Education or Education Administration which are not viewed as too demanding compared to law, medicine engineering etc.

People will not take the teaching "profession" seriously until the qualification/compensation is raised. The perception is that what is hard about the job is dealing with kids all day not that the job itself is demanding or requires high level of thinking.

I wonder if that's the reason people are saying they can't get the job done during the day and have to spend weekends and nights doing it.
No offense intended, truly, but you could see how a poor student who struggled in college would have time management issues, lack organizational skills, or simply be a bit slower in doing tasks.
I'm the PP with the ex boyfriend who was a teacher and this thread is interesting to me as a mother with children about to be school age. My experience with him and his peers is vastly different than what is being represented here

I have an engineering degree from a top state school, a graduate degree from an Ivy League university, graduated #2 in my high school class, and I'm still doing things at home nights and weekends. Come on.

I have 130 kids on my roster. If I spend 1 minute per child grading a quiz, that's 2 hours on a single assignment. I have more than one assignment each week, and we haven't even touched the planning.

I get 5 hours of prep time per week, but 3 of those hours are meetings. So assuming I grade my one quiz at school, the only way I get to go home on time is if I don't plan anything, don't copy anything, don't remediate anyone, don't speak to counsellors or admin or other teachers about a child I'm worried about, etc.

I don't doubt that there are slow, idiot teachers. I've worked with one or two over the years. The reality is that the "busy work" (copying, grading, emailing parents, discipline referrals, required trainings) takes up so much of the day that if you want to do a halfway decent job, you have to do work outside of the school day.

Thank you, PP.

Teaching isn't my first career. My undergrad and first Master's degrees aren't in education. I know how to work efficiently. There's only so much you can do to trim time from tasks like grading and planning before you start short-changing students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can think of a hundred jobs where people stand on their feet all day and can't pee on a whim. Geez

How many of these 100's of these standing jobs without bathroom breaks require a college education and often a master's degree? I can't think of them.

Well, surgeons. But they get paid a lot, and people respect them.

Okay, now PP only has to give me 99 more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The problem is the bar is relatively low to become a teacher. One can graduate from Podunk University and major in "Education" which is considered one of the easiest majors around. On top of that, college GPA really doesn't matter. Theoretically, you could have plenty of teachers who graduated with a degree in Education from a place like Bowie State College with a gpa of 2.8. I know there are teachers with masters degrees but typically the degree will be from GMU or JMU in Education or Education Administration which are not viewed as too demanding compared to law, medicine engineering etc.

People will not take the teaching "profession" seriously until the qualification/compensation is raised. The perception is that what is hard about the job is dealing with kids all day not that the job itself is demanding or requires high level of thinking.

I see comments like this floating around, often coated with poorly disguised or direct insults on how stupid and ill educated teachers are and often by people who have no idea what teaching actually entails.

I got a BA in Elementary Education and an MA in Deaf Education. It was far from an easy walk in the park, and there were grade/GPA requirements. If you dropped the ball in any way shape or form, you could be out of the program. I also had to write a paper (ended up being over 100 pages) and pass all parts (judged by several professors) in order to graduate. Not only did you have to successfully get your degree, you also had to meet the state level requirements which included taking 8 Praxis exams.

I'm a relatively recent graduate (MA in 2013) so that may have something to do with it. But even with the BA and MA, most school districts I would only be earning about 35K a year and many school districts are still on pay freezes.

MA degrees didn't used to be required, they are now. I also disagree that teaching is just "dealing with kids all day". That's daycare. Or parenting. Teaching is very different then just dealing with kids involves far more then just teaching in the classroom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is the bar is relatively low to become a teacher. One can graduate from Podunk University and major in "Education" which is considered one of the easiest majors around. On top of that, college GPA really doesn't matter. Theoretically, you could have plenty of teachers who graduated with a degree in Education from a place like Bowie State College with a gpa of 2.8. I know there are teachers with masters degrees but typically the degree will be from GMU or JMU in Education or Education Administration which are not viewed as too demanding compared to law, medicine engineering etc.

People will not take the teaching "profession" seriously until the qualification/compensation is raised. The perception is that what is hard about the job is dealing with kids all day not that the job itself is demanding or requires high level of thinking.

I wonder if that's the reason people are saying they can't get the job done during the day and have to spend weekends and nights doing it.
No offense intended, truly, but you could see how a poor student who struggled in college would have time management issues, lack organizational skills, or simply be a bit slower in doing tasks.
I'm the PP with the ex boyfriend who was a teacher and this thread is interesting to me as a mother with children about to be school age. My experience with him and his peers is vastly different than what is being represented here

I have an engineering degree from a top state school, a graduate degree from an Ivy League university, graduated #2 in my high school class, and I'm still doing things at home nights and weekends. Come on.

I have 130 kids on my roster. If I spend 1 minute per child grading a quiz, that's 2 hours on a single assignment. I have more than one assignment each week, and we haven't even touched the planning.

I get 5 hours of prep time per week, but 3 of those hours are meetings. So assuming I grade my one quiz at school, the only way I get to go home on time is if I don't plan anything, don't copy anything, don't remediate anyone, don't speak to counsellors or admin or other teachers about a child I'm worried about, etc.

I don't doubt that there are slow, idiot teachers. I've worked with one or two over the years. The reality is that the "busy work" (copying, grading, emailing parents, discipline referrals, required trainings) takes up so much of the day that if you want to do a halfway decent job, you have to do work outside of the school day.

Thank you, PP.



Teaching isn't my first career. My undergrad and first Master's degrees aren't in education. I know how to work efficiently. There's only so much you can do to trim time from tasks like grading and planning before you start short-changing students.

1. If you are doing it right, it requires a lot of thinking. Which of my kids are reading below grade level, what ways do they learn best, how do I need to alter this lesson to make it more accessible to the ESOL, special education students, and what extensions can I do for higher level learners? Integrating lessons across subject matter requires a interdisciplinary focus that is really in very few careers and you have to be able to shift lessons at a moment's notice is something is going terribly bad.

2. As for lack of time management and organization - what careers do you know that expect a performance or presentation for five and a half hours a day every day and provide an hour of preparation time to prepare. Most careers that expect a performance or presentation- law, theatre, business to think of a few are given hours of preparation time for a one hour presentation. Seriously, those of you in law, can you imagine being in court for six hours a day five days a week and get one hour a day to look at all your cases? And have to make all your own copies? Those of you in business, can you imagine going into a six hour board meeting on a marketing strategy etc with only one hour to prepare and look at all that sales data?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can think of a hundred jobs where people stand on their feet all day and can't pee on a whim. Geez

How many of these 100's of these standing jobs without bathroom breaks require a college education and often a master's degree? I can't think of them.

Well, surgeons. But they get paid a lot, and people respect them.

Okay, now PP only has to give me 99 more.

Not pp, but....
Many health care workers (nurses, drs, pharmacists, athletic trainers)
Many engineers (in the field, in a lab)
Many scientists (again in the field, in a lab)
Hospitality professionals
Many military jobs (many have master's degree)

There is a long list actually.......

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is the bar is relatively low to become a teacher. One can graduate from Podunk University and major in "Education" which is considered one of the easiest majors around. On top of that, college GPA really doesn't matter. Theoretically, you could have plenty of teachers who graduated with a degree in Education from a place like Bowie State College with a gpa of 2.8. I know there are teachers with masters degrees but typically the degree will be from GMU or JMU in Education or Education Administration which are not viewed as too demanding compared to law, medicine engineering etc.

People will not take the teaching "profession" seriously until the qualification/compensation is raised. The perception is that what is hard about the job is dealing with kids all day not that the job itself is demanding or requires high level of thinking.

I wonder if that's the reason people are saying they can't get the job done during the day and have to spend weekends and nights doing it.
No offense intended, truly, but you could see how a poor student who struggled in college would have time management issues, lack organizational skills, or simply be a bit slower in doing tasks.
I'm the PP with the ex boyfriend who was a teacher and this thread is interesting to me as a mother with children about to be school age. My experience with him and his peers is vastly different than what is being represented here

I have an engineering degree from a top state school, a graduate degree from an Ivy League university, graduated #2 in my high school class, and I'm still doing things at home nights and weekends. Come on.

I have 130 kids on my roster. If I spend 1 minute per child grading a quiz, that's 2 hours on a single assignment. I have more than one assignment each week, and we haven't even touched the planning.

I get 5 hours of prep time per week, but 3 of those hours are meetings. So assuming I grade my one quiz at school, the only way I get to go home on time is if I don't plan anything, don't copy anything, don't remediate anyone, don't speak to counsellors or admin or other teachers about a child I'm worried about, etc.

I don't doubt that there are slow, idiot teachers. I've worked with one or two over the years. The reality is that the "busy work" (copying, grading, emailing parents, discipline referrals, required trainings) takes up so much of the day that if you want to do a halfway decent job, you have to do work outside of the school day.

Thank you, PP.



Teaching isn't my first career. My undergrad and first Master's degrees aren't in education. I know how to work efficiently. There's only so much you can do to trim time from tasks like grading and planning before you start short-changing students.

1. If you are doing it right, it requires a lot of thinking. Which of my kids are reading below grade level, what ways do they learn best, how do I need to alter this lesson to make it more accessible to the ESOL, special education students, and what extensions can I do for higher level learners? Integrating lessons across subject matter requires a interdisciplinary focus that is really in very few careers and you have to be able to shift lessons at a moment's notice is something is going terribly bad.

2. As for lack of time management and organization - what careers do you know that expect a performance or presentation for five and a half hours a day every day and provide an hour of preparation time to prepare. Most careers that expect a performance or presentation- law, theatre, business to think of a few are given hours of preparation time for a one hour presentation. Seriously, those of you in law, can you imagine being in court for six hours a day five days a week and get one hour a day to look at all your cases? And have to make all your own copies? Those of you in business, can you imagine going into a six hour board meeting on a marketing strategy etc with only one hour to prepare and look at all that sales data?

This is a stupid comparison. Most teachers teach the same or very similar curriculum year after year. It's not new "data" you're presenting once you have a year or so under your belt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is the bar is relatively low to become a teacher. One can graduate from Podunk University and major in "Education" which is considered one of the easiest majors around. On top of that, college GPA really doesn't matter. Theoretically, you could have plenty of teachers who graduated with a degree in Education from a place like Bowie State College with a gpa of 2.8. I know there are teachers with masters degrees but typically the degree will be from GMU or JMU in Education or Education Administration which are not viewed as too demanding compared to law, medicine engineering etc.

People will not take the teaching "profession" seriously until the qualification/compensation is raised. The perception is that what is hard about the job is dealing with kids all day not that the job itself is demanding or requires high level of thinking.

I wonder if that's the reason people are saying they can't get the job done during the day and have to spend weekends and nights doing it.
No offense intended, truly, but you could see how a poor student who struggled in college would have time management issues, lack organizational skills, or simply be a bit slower in doing tasks.
I'm the PP with the ex boyfriend who was a teacher and this thread is interesting to me as a mother with children about to be school age. My experience with him and his peers is vastly different than what is being represented here

I have an engineering degree from a top state school, a graduate degree from an Ivy League university, graduated #2 in my high school class, and I'm still doing things at home nights and weekends. Come on.

I have 130 kids on my roster. If I spend 1 minute per child grading a quiz, that's 2 hours on a single assignment. I have more than one assignment each week, and we haven't even touched the planning.

I get 5 hours of prep time per week, but 3 of those hours are meetings. So assuming I grade my one quiz at school, the only way I get to go home on time is if I don't plan anything, don't copy anything, don't remediate anyone, don't speak to counsellors or admin or other teachers about a child I'm worried about, etc.

I don't doubt that there are slow, idiot teachers. I've worked with one or two over the years. The reality is that the "busy work" (copying, grading, emailing parents, discipline referrals, required trainings) takes up so much of the day that if you want to do a halfway decent job, you have to do work outside of the school day.

Thank you, PP.

Teaching isn't my first career. My undergrad and first Master's degrees aren't in education. I know how to work efficiently. There's only so much you can do to trim time from tasks like grading and planning before you start short-changing students.

+2 from another teacher

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is the bar is relatively low to become a teacher. One can graduate from Podunk University and major in "Education" which is considered one of the easiest majors around. On top of that, college GPA really doesn't matter. Theoretically, you could have plenty of teachers who graduated with a degree in Education from a place like Bowie State College with a gpa of 2.8. I know there are teachers with masters degrees but typically the degree will be from GMU or JMU in Education or Education Administration which are not viewed as too demanding compared to law, medicine engineering etc.

People will not take the teaching "profession" seriously until the qualification/compensation is raised. The perception is that what is hard about the job is dealing with kids all day not that the job itself is demanding or requires high level of thinking.

I wonder if that's the reason people are saying they can't get the job done during the day and have to spend weekends and nights doing it.
No offense intended, truly, but you could see how a poor student who struggled in college would have time management issues, lack organizational skills, or simply be a bit slower in doing tasks.
I'm the PP with the ex boyfriend who was a teacher and this thread is interesting to me as a mother with children about to be school age. My experience with him and his peers is vastly different than what is being represented here

I have an engineering degree from a top state school, a graduate degree from an Ivy League university, graduated #2 in my high school class, and I'm still doing things at home nights and weekends. Come on.

I have 130 kids on my roster. If I spend 1 minute per child grading a quiz, that's 2 hours on a single assignment. I have more than one assignment each week, and we haven't even touched the planning.

I get 5 hours of prep time per week, but 3 of those hours are meetings. So assuming I grade my one quiz at school, the only way I get to go home on time is if I don't plan anything, don't copy anything, don't remediate anyone, don't speak to counsellors or admin or other teachers about a child I'm worried about, etc.

I don't doubt that there are slow, idiot teachers. I've worked with one or two over the years. The reality is that the "busy work" (copying, grading, emailing parents, discipline referrals, required trainings) takes up so much of the day that if you want to do a halfway decent job, you have to do work outside of the school day.

Thank you, PP.



Teaching isn't my first career. My undergrad and first Master's degrees aren't in education. I know how to work efficiently. There's only so much you can do to trim time from tasks like grading and planning before you start short-changing students.

1. If you are doing it right, it requires a lot of thinking. Which of my kids are reading below grade level, what ways do they learn best, how do I need to alter this lesson to make it more accessible to the ESOL, special education students, and what extensions can I do for higher level learners? Integrating lessons across subject matter requires a interdisciplinary focus that is really in very few careers and you have to be able to shift lessons at a moment's notice is something is going terribly bad.

2. As for lack of time management and organization - what careers do you know that expect a performance or presentation for five and a half hours a day every day and provide an hour of preparation time to prepare. Most careers that expect a performance or presentation- law, theatre, business to think of a few are given hours of preparation time for a one hour presentation. Seriously, those of you in law, can you imagine being in court for six hours a day five days a week and get one hour a day to look at all your cases? And have to make all your own copies? Those of you in business, can you imagine going into a six hour board meeting on a marketing strategy etc with only one hour to prepare and look at all that sales data?

This is a stupid comparison. Most teachers teach the same or very similar curriculum year after year. It's not new "data" you're presenting once you have a year or so under your belt.

Nah, you have no idea what you are talking about and it's obvious. You are assuming that every group of 25 kids is exactly the same in terms of ability and that simply isn't the case. Curriculum also changes approximately every four years or so. It's impossible to keep exactly the same identical lesson plan schedule every year to the day. I've had groups of third graders where almost all where above and on grade level in reading (because they had awesome K-2 teachers) and I've had groups with almost all on and below grade level the following year (because those same great teachers left or were on maternity, etc).

[Anonymous]

REALLY? It is the same curriculum and we are so stupid we just can't manage?
IT'S NEVER THE SAME CURRICULUM. NEVER.

It's never the same kids, never the same expectations, never the same behavior, never the same supervisors, never the same day, and it is never, never the same curriculum.

Do you know what differentiation means? It means kids are in the 8th grade but they read on a second grade level and it is UP to ME to ameliorate the difference within the 8th grade curriculum. It means they have autism and are non-verbal and it is UP to ME to figure out how to teach this SAME curriculum to them and to 25 different kids with 25 different issues. Did I mention 25 different kids (PER CLASS) with issues and cell phones they will not put down? And huge attitudes? The wonderful, the motivated, the unmotivated, the gang-affiliated, the bullies, the bullied, the shy, the extroverted, the active, the curious, the scared, the emotionally scarred, the abused, the hungry, the learning disabled, the oppositional, the under-achievers, the helicoptered kids- (yeah, yours!). Each of these kids have a myriad of ongoing documenting paperwork.
So, because some can't pass the tests that prove whether or not I am any good, it's UP TO ME to explain why I failed- over and over again with longitudinal charts and data points as if I personally created this societal catastrophe. (And of course to people who got out of the classroom a long time ago and are glad of it. )

Oh, you are a lawyer and you take work home? You have a lot of paperwork? Terrific! Are you paid 50K a year? Will your highest salary be around 90K when you are in your 50s or 60s? Did you get to use the bathroom today or eat your lunch sitting in a chair?


I'm sickened by the condescending, moronic assumptions about a career many people have no idea about. Most of you would not last a day in our daily setting.

That we are stupid, low performers with an easy low level job that we can't manage in a day?? Who came up with this crap??? It does explain why you, the parent, have failed at your job. You are narcissists- but we knew that already, even those of us who went to Bowie State.

Signed,
A teacher with an undergrad degree in Economics from an Ivy, and a Masters from Loyola who knows many teachers from Bowie, from Towson, from UMD, etc., who are good and talented enough to teach your kid.

Shame on you, elitist asses. Stay out of my classroom.

[Anonymous]

This is a stupid comparison. Most teachers teach the same or very similar curriculum year after year. It's not new "data" you're presenting once you have a year or so under your belt.

Now do you understand why people do not understand what teaching is? This PP clearly exhibits a lack of any kind of understanding. Stop, just stop unless you are willing to even try this for one day. You will be eaten alive. Teaching in public school, or anywhere, is not for the faint of heart, and certainly not for the stupid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: REALLY? It is the same curriculum and we are so stupid we just can't manage?
IT'S NEVER THE SAME CURRICULUM. NEVER.

It's never the same kids, never the same expectations, never the same behavior, never the same supervisors, never the same day, and it is never, never the same curriculum.

Do you know what differentiation means? It means kids are in the 8th grade but they read on a second grade level and it is UP to ME to ameliorate the difference within the 8th grade curriculum. It means they have autism and are non-verbal and it is UP to ME to figure out how to teach this SAME curriculum to them and to 25 different kids with 25 different issues. Did I mention 25 different kids (PER CLASS) with issues and cell phones they will not put down? And huge attitudes? The wonderful, the motivated, the unmotivated, the gang-affiliated, the bullies, the bullied, the shy, the extroverted, the active, the curious, the scared, the emotionally scarred, the abused, the hungry, the learning disabled, the oppositional, the under-achievers, the helicoptered kids- (yeah, yours!). Each of these kids have a myriad of ongoing documenting paperwork.
So, because some can't pass the tests that prove whether or not I am any good, it's UP TO ME to explain why I failed- over and over again with longitudinal charts and data points as if I personally created this societal catastrophe. (And of course to people who got out of the classroom a long time ago and are glad of it. )

Oh, you are a lawyer and you take work home? You have a lot of paperwork? Terrific! Are you paid 50K a year? Will your highest salary be around 90K when you are in your 50s or 60s? Did you get to use the bathroom today or eat your lunch sitting in a chair?


I'm sickened by the condescending, moronic assumptions about a career many people have no idea about. Most of you would not last a day in our daily setting.

That we are stupid, low performers with an easy low level job that we can't manage in a day?? Who came up with this crap??? It does explain why you, the parent, have failed at your job. You are narcissists- but we knew that already, even those of us who went to Bowie State.

Signed,
A teacher with an undergrad degree in Economics from an Ivy, and a Masters from Loyola who knows many teachers from Bowie, from Towson, from UMD, etc., who are good and talented enough to teach your kid.

Shame on you, elitist asses. Stay out of my classroom.

I think the PP's point was that someone graduating from Bowie State with 2.8 GPA with a major in education or sociology would have a tough time getting a decent job except maybe teaching.

[Anonymous]

I think there was a study showing education majors tended to have lower high school gpa and had lower gpa while in college compared to students with other majors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think there was a study showing education majors tended to have lower high school gpa and had lower gpa while in college compared to students with other majors.

Even if this is true, does it make the job easier some how?