4 AAP classes, 2 GE (4th grade). What's wrong with this picture?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP children can be taught with other independent and high achieving students. It's done in LLIV schools all the time and can be done in the centers too. A teacher shouldn't have to teach many, many different levels, but they can teach 2-3 levels during the year.

Would love to see teacher input on how "they can teach 2-3 levels during the year." PP, are you a teacher who has to do this?

As for OP, way back many pages ago, if it's a center school, of course you have more AAP classrooms than general ed; kids are coming to the school from several other local elementary schools to fill those AAP classrooms. Sorry if you feel that their presence somehow sullies your "neighborhood school" experience, but I'm not sure why it would. Our center school had tons of interaction between AAP and general ed students, all the time, in "specials" classes, on the playground, on field trips--the school actively worked to create bonds between all kids in a grade, regardless of AAP or general ed status. If your school doesn't do that -- why not be the one to get it started?

It does because the AAP students are getting more services than the GE students. Most parents feel that the GE students would be able to perform well with the AAP curriculum. This results in an inequity. It would be one thing if the AAP students were so advanced that they "needed" the extra resources. Most non-AAP parents do not believe this is the case. Also, the GE and AAP students do not mix much at our center. They have no special classes together and have lunch at different times. A couple of field trips within the year as an entire school doesn't do much to form a bond.

Why is FCPS keeping the advanced curriculum away from the GE? This needs to stop!

But what if the AAP curriculum isn't a good match for the whole GE class? If it would work well for, say, the top 20% of the GE class, what about the rest of the class? This is where tracking could come into play, but it seems that dividing kids into different ability-based classes beyond AAP and GE is taboo in education today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many of the AAP kids have a superiority complex and this manifests itself in places like the playground or cafeteria, where some are telling Gen Ed kids that they're not in the "smart" class, etc. And before you and others jump in and say this behavior isn't happening, let me just say -- it is. My child has been told this and other parents of Gen Ed children have said similar things have happened to their kids. I don't know if it's the parents of AAP kids who are feeding this BS to their children, or if it's the kids themselves who have an over-inflated sense of self. But it's very dispiriting to be on the receiving end of those comments.

Have you raised this with the school at all? If this were happening to my kids, I would be in touch with the school counselor.

Yes I have -- and the principal too. The prevailing attitude is, "Oh, that's such a shame when these things happen. We'll keep an eye out for it." I would think a guidance lesson on respecting others would be called for. Especially since at our school, "respect" and "compassion" are given such lip-service.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not all the time. Do center schools do this though? Fill with LLIII children? If not, why shouldn't they as well?

At our center school I've heard of LLIII children coming into the AAP classroom only for math. In a way it makes sense because I've heard it said that when kids have trouble in AAP it is not because of math but because of language arts skills, the reading and writing. So if language arts is considered the most challenging part of the AAP curriculum, that could be a reason for limiting LLIII participation to math. Those weaker in math and stronger in language arts possibly still qualified for full-time level IV services in the center.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP children can be taught with other independent and high achieving students. It's done in LLIV schools all the time and can be done in the centers too. A teacher shouldn't have to teach many, many different levels, but they can teach 2-3 levels during the year.

Would love to see teacher input on how "they can teach 2-3 levels during the year." PP, are you a teacher who has to do this?

I only know that our experience with "differentiation in the classroom" meant that kids who were able and ready to work at higher academic levels were the ones shortchanged as teachers had to focus mostly on meeting the needs of the rest of the class and getting the rest of the class's standardized test scores up to scratch. The kids who were ready for more challenges were not effectively challenged under "differentiation" and the differentiation often took the form of more worksheets (busy work) that these kids were left to do on their own "because you can handle it." This is very dispiriting to these kids. That's why we were glad to have the AAP option when the time came. That won't be popular with the anti-AAP posters on here, but nothing that is in any way positive about AAP ever is OK with them.

As for OP, way back many pages ago, if it's a center school, of course you have more AAP classrooms than general ed; kids are coming to the school from several other local elementary schools to fill those AAP classrooms. Sorry if you feel that their presence somehow sullies your "neighborhood school" experience, but I'm not sure why it would. Our center school had tons of interaction between AAP and general ed students, all the time, in "specials" classes, on the playground, on field trips--the school actively worked to create bonds between all kids in a grade, regardless of AAP or general ed status. If your school doesn't do that -- why not be the one to get it started?[/quote]

I agree.

Our AAP center mixes the kids all the time for the same things mentioned above.

In fact, the final project for last year (an upper grade) was having groups mixed with AAP and non AAP kids. For the entire month they worked together the majority of every day in a combined history/writing/research project and presentation. My kid's group had a mix of AAP/non AAP kids that was reflective of the ratio of the school's AAP/non AAP population.

The kids really enjoyed the experience.

It sounds like some of the problems with AAP/vs non AAP are issues with the overall school culture, parents and administrators alike, and not necessarily a problem with the AAP program itself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP children can be taught with other independent and high achieving students. It's done in LLIV schools all the time and can be done in the centers too. A teacher shouldn't have to teach many, many different levels, but they can teach 2-3 levels during the year.

Would love to see teacher input on how "they can teach 2-3 levels during the year." PP, are you a teacher who has to do this?

As for OP, way back many pages ago, if it's a center school, of course you have more AAP classrooms than general ed; kids are coming to the school from several other local elementary schools to fill those AAP classrooms. Sorry if you feel that their presence somehow sullies your "neighborhood school" experience, but I'm not sure why it would. Our center school had tons of interaction between AAP and general ed students, all the time, in "specials" classes, on the playground, on field trips--the school actively worked to create bonds between all kids in a grade, regardless of AAP or general ed status. If your school doesn't do that -- why not be the one to get it started?

It does because the AAP students are getting more services than the GE students. Most parents feel that the GE students would be able to perform well with the AAP curriculum. This results in an inequity. It would be one thing if the AAP students were so advanced that they "needed" the extra resources. Most non-AAP parents do not believe this is the case. Also, the GE and AAP students do not mix much at our center. They have no special classes together and have lunch at different times. A couple of field trips within the year as an entire school doesn't do much to form a bond.

Why is FCPS keeping the advanced curriculum away from the GE? This needs to stop!

You need to talk to your principal. This is a school specific issue, not an AAP vs non-AAP issue.

There is no reason why the AAP and non-AAP kids should not mix for all the specials: band, strings, art, music, Spanish, computers, music and certainly PE. I can see why lunch might be difficult to mix just because the schools are challenged with getting all the students K-6th in and out in a limited amount of time, but the other disciplines should certainly be mixed.

[Anonymous]

I agree.

Our AAP center mixes the kids all the time for the same things mentioned above.

In fact, the final project for last year (an upper grade) was having groups mixed with AAP and non AAP kids. For the entire month they worked together the majority of every day in a combined history/writing/research project and presentation. My kid's group had a mix of AAP/non AAP kids that was reflective of the ratio of the school's AAP/non AAP population.

The kids really enjoyed the experience.

It sounds like some of the problems with AAP/vs non AAP are issues with the overall school culture, parents and administrators alike, and not necessarily a problem with the AAP program itself

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP children can be taught with other independent and high achieving students. It's done in LLIV schools all the time and can be done in the centers too. A teacher shouldn't have to teach many, many different levels, but they can teach 2-3 levels during the year.

Would love to see teacher input on how "they can teach 2-3 levels during the year." PP, are you a teacher who has to do this?

I only know that our experience with "differentiation in the classroom" meant that kids who were able and ready to work at higher academic levels were the ones shortchanged as teachers had to focus mostly on meeting the needs of the rest of the class and getting the rest of the class's standardized test scores up to scratch. The kids who were ready for more challenges were not effectively challenged under "differentiation" and the differentiation often took the form of more worksheets (busy work) that these kids were left to do on their own "because you can handle it." This is very dispiriting to these kids. That's why we were glad to have the AAP option when the time came. That won't be popular with the anti-AAP posters on here, but nothing that is in any way positive about AAP ever is OK with them.

As for OP, way back many pages ago, if it's a center school, of course you have more AAP classrooms than general ed; kids are coming to the school from several other local elementary schools to fill those AAP classrooms. Sorry if you feel that their presence somehow sullies your "neighborhood school" experience, but I'm not sure why it would. Our center school had tons of interaction between AAP and general ed students, all the time, in "specials" classes, on the playground, on field trips--the school actively worked to create bonds between all kids in a grade, regardless of AAP or general ed status. If your school doesn't do that -- why not be the one to get it started?[/quote]

I agree.

Our AAP center mixes the kids all the time for the same things mentioned above.

In fact, the final project for last year (an upper grade) was having groups mixed with AAP and non AAP kids. For the entire month they worked together the majority of every day in a combined history/writing/research project and presentation. My kid's group had a mix of AAP/non AAP kids that was reflective of the ratio of the school's AAP/non AAP population.

The kids really enjoyed the experience.

It sounds like some of the problems with AAP/vs non AAP are issues with the overall school culture, parents and administrators alike, and not necessarily a problem with the AAP program itself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not all the time. Do center schools do this though? Fill with LLIII children? If not, why shouldn't they as well?

At our center, the AAP classes are usually fuller capacity than the non-AAP classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many of the AAP kids have a superiority complex and this manifests itself in places like the playground or cafeteria, where some are telling Gen Ed kids that they're not in the "smart" class, etc. And before you and others jump in and say this behavior isn't happening, let me just say -- it is. My child has been told this and other parents of Gen Ed children have said similar things have happened to their kids. I don't know if it's the parents of AAP kids who are feeding this BS to their children, or if it's the kids themselves who have an over-inflated sense of self. But it's very dispiriting to be on the receiving end of those comments.

Have you raised this with the school at all? If this were happening to my kids, I would be in touch with the school counselor.

Yes I have -- and the principal too. The prevailing attitude is, "Oh, that's such a shame when these things happen. We'll keep an eye out for it." I would think a guidance lesson on respecting others would be called for. Especially since at our school, "respect" and "compassion" are given such lip-service.

As the parent of an AAP student, I agree that it is completely unacceptable for negative remarks to be made by AAP students to GE students. I've read about incidents like this on this board and cautioned my child even back in second grade against ever making such remarks. I also said that different people are good at different things, different people learn differently, and what will matter most in the long run is how hard people work and the choices they make, not what class they are in now. I'm hoping that my words sunk in, and I know that DC is so happy to see old GE friends at recess and specials and have things be back like old times (the kids were together K-2 since the AAP center is our home school).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many of the AAP kids have a superiority complex and this manifests itself in places like the playground or cafeteria, where some are telling Gen Ed kids that they're not in the "smart" class, etc. And before you and others jump in and say this behavior isn't happening, let me just say -- it is. My child has been told this and other parents of Gen Ed children have said similar things have happened to their kids. I don't know if it's the parents of AAP kids who are feeding this BS to their children, or if it's the kids themselves who have an over-inflated sense of self. But it's very dispiriting to be on the receiving end of those comments.

Have you raised this with the school at all? If this were happening to my kids, I would be in touch with the school counselor.

Yes I have -- and the principal too. The prevailing attitude is, "Oh, that's such a shame when these things happen. We'll keep an eye out for it." I would think a guidance lesson on respecting others would be called for. Especially since at our school, "respect" and "compassion" are given such lip-service.

As the parent of an AAP student, I agree that it is completely unacceptable for negative remarks to be made by AAP students to GE students. I've read about incidents like this on this board and cautioned my child even back in second grade against ever making such remarks. I also said that different people are good at different things, different people learn differently, and what will matter most in the long run is how hard people work and the choices they make, not what class they are in now. I'm hoping that my words sunk in, and I know that DC is so happy to see old GE friends at recess and specials and have things be back like old times (the kids were together K-2 since the AAP center is our home school).

Thank you, PP and AAP parent. Your words are wonderful to hear.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many of the AAP kids have a superiority complex and this manifests itself in places like the playground or cafeteria, where some are telling Gen Ed kids that they're not in the "smart" class, etc. And before you and others jump in and say this behavior isn't happening, let me just say -- it is. My child has been told this and other parents of Gen Ed children have said similar things have happened to their kids. I don't know if it's the parents of AAP kids who are feeding this BS to their children, or if it's the kids themselves who have an over-inflated sense of self. But it's very dispiriting to be on the receiving end of those comments.

Have you raised this with the school at all? If this were happening to my kids, I would be in touch with the school counselor.

Yes I have -- and the principal too. The prevailing attitude is, "Oh, that's such a shame when these things happen. We'll keep an eye out for it." I would think a guidance lesson on respecting others would be called for. Especially since at our school, "respect" and "compassion" are given such lip-service.

As the parent of an AAP student, I agree that it is completely unacceptable for negative remarks to be made by AAP students to GE students. I've read about incidents like this on this board and cautioned my child even back in second grade against ever making such remarks. I also said that different people are good at different things, different people learn differently, and what will matter most in the long run is how hard people work and the choices they make, not what class they are in now. I'm hoping that my words sunk in, and I know that DC is so happy to see old GE friends at recess and specials and have things be back like old times (the kids were together K-2 since the AAP center is our home school).

Absolutely agree with this beautifully worded statement.

To the PP with these issues at the school -- I suggest revisiting the issue with the principal and if you do not feel the issues are being addressed appropriately, PLEASE go up the proverbial chain and seek out the assistant superintendent at your cluster. This sort of behavior should not be tolerated.

My DD (in AAP) was in 6th Grade All County Chorus last year and she adored seeing her old friends (from her base school). She knows that her AAP class is just different -- not better or worse than other classes -- just different.

[Anonymous]

Some of the kids in DC's AAP class last year were telling gen ed kids that AAP kids were smarter. Luckily DC's teacher quickly and decisively shut that down. I think it is important that if a teacher hears this, they immediately and unequivocally straighten the kids out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some of the kids in DC's AAP class last year were telling gen ed kids that AAP kids were smarter. Luckily DC's teacher quickly and decisively shut that down. I think it is important that if a teacher hears this, they immediately and unequivocally straighten the kids out.

Unfortunately, it works both ways. My child's AAP center had the opposite problem: kids from the regular classes were calling the AAP kids nerds and sissies and there was some bullying going on. The school counselor did a few lessons on bullying and how to deal with it for the whole grade and that seemed to help.
This took place at a school that mixed all the kids for specials and lunch. They were all fine all through school and then this happened in 6th grade. It was too bad, because they had all seemed to get along for so long, but this left my child with some bad feelings about that year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of the kids in DC's AAP class last year were telling gen ed kids that AAP kids were smarter. Luckily DC's teacher quickly and decisively shut that down. I think it is important that if a teacher hears this, they immediately and unequivocally straighten the kids out.

Unfortunately, it works both ways. My child's AAP center had the opposite problem: kids from the regular classes were calling the AAP kids nerds and sissies and there was some bullying going on. The school counselor did a few lessons on bullying and how to deal with it for the whole grade and that seemed to help.
This took place at a school that mixed all the kids for specials and lunch. They were all fine all through school and then this happened in 6th grade. It was too bad, because they had all seemed to get along for so long, but this left my child with some bad feelings about that year.

I think the nasty kids are going to be mean, whether or not they are AAP.

And in 6th grade, even the nice kids can turn nasty. It is a tough year.