Sidwell college guidance office

[Anonymous]

This has been eye-opening for me. We're considering private school applications next year, and I'm definitely going to look into this aspect more carefully. It never occurred to me that college counselors at top private schools would be falling short, since a main end game for them is a good college placement record for their students. Thanks, PPs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:30 schools is plenty to get information from Naviance, in my view -- there is also lots of additional public information out there on schools that can help shape the first cut. If the school was more directive about the College list I'm sure peoe would complain about that (school prevents kids from applying places, etc). Lastly, a new head of college counseling is coming in who may change things up -- perhaps also a chance for parents to raise issues such as unrestricted Naviance access.

I find it surprising that Sidwell would print out 30 pages of Naviance results per kid, x 100 kids. That's a lot of work for someone, compared to just giving families full access to Naviance. Especially if the results are edited in some way, although maybe that's the point.

I'm still curious as to how the Naviance data provided to families is "edited."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This has been eye-opening for me. We're considering private school applications next year, and I'm definitely going to look into this aspect more carefully. It never occurred to me that college counselors at top private schools would be falling short, since a main end game for them is a good college placement record for their students. Thanks, PPs.

The counselors' Rolodexes, if they still use those, are legendary. The real value comes at the crunch time when they call a school to get your kid off the waitlist, although some claim this is overstated.

And compared to public, where one counselor is responsible for 100+ kids, it would be hard to perform badly.

I guess the issues being raised here are the extent to which counselors are willing/ able to guide your kid in the selection process. I think this is something we, the parents, need to be involved with instead of relying solely on the counselor. The problem, of course, is the parent who thinks the 9 schools should be the 8 ivies plus Stanford. Then it's the counselor's job to suggest Michigan, Tufts and their ilk, plus a few safeties including the state school. If the counselor fails to do this, out of gutlessness or ignorance, they have failed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:30 schools is plenty to get information from Naviance, in my view -- there is also lots of additional public information out there on schools that can help shape the first cut. If the school was more directive about the College list I'm sure peoe would complain about that (school prevents kids from applying places, etc). Lastly, a new head of college counseling is coming in who may change things up -- perhaps also a chance for parents to raise issues such as unrestricted Naviance access.

My point was that 30 schools is too many, not too few. The school's response would be that they want students to realize that every students has many good options. This is a fair point, but I think that most students and parents can appreciate this without having to produce a list of so many schools that it becomes a meaningless exercise. I think the counselors could be more helpful in advising students and parents on developing a shorter, more targeted list earlier on. That doesn't mean the counselor should be "directive", but offer more focused and thoughtful guidance, both in terms of fit and strategic considerations. And yes, at this point parents should definitely be proactive in raising their concerns about the counseling program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
My facts are all listed in this thread. It is obvious that most posters here do not have firsthand experience with Sidwell's college admissions office, and are just offering opinions based one second-hand, conflicting, and biased comments from anonymous posters who may (or may not) have firsthand experience. People are perfectly entitled to do that; everyone can have an opinion. But I find it a little ridiculous when some posters without firsthand knowledge express outrage and other strong views, based on weak info.

Seems to me that some posters here have preconceived views about Sidwell (they want to hate it), and are just using this topic and the limited facts available as an opportunity to express those preconceived views.

Personally, I don't have firsthand experience with Sidwell's college counseling office - and this thread has not taught me much - so I don't feel comfortable offering opinions about it. YMMV. Have a nice day.

Thank you for that. Are you saying that the posters who claim to have kids at Sidwell, and there are at least two of them, are lying? If not, then you must be saying that other people who have opinions about these facts are either wrong, or not entitled to have opinions. So why don't you go ahead and explain your own views, because while your lectures leave us cold, we're interested in opposing views, I promise.

[Anonymous]

I have a rising senior at another private where the kids have complete access to Naviance. In our case, my DC has changed his perspective radically since beginning the process. After seeing some schools he has realized he actually wants an entirely different geographic area, size and academic approach. Now he may not be typical, but we think this is healthy that he has questioned his initial thoughts after actually seeing the schools. If he was restricted to one list of 30 schools, that would almost certainly lock out schools he will end up applying to because of the shift. So the Sidwell approach would absolutely not work in our case.

Plus, I have noticed a lot of paranoia by parents over the process -- what the counselors are and are not doing for them. It seems to me that by keeping this data secret, and being the conduit for edited data, it only serves to pump up the suspicion.

Finally, while some posters are saying that the Sidwell approach is superior to publics, and I don't doubt that is true, most of in this section have kids at privates. And Sidwell's approach is definitely unique among privates from everything I've read here.

By the way, they had a college night for 7th grade parents this year. To me that is a sign of incredibly craziness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This has been eye-opening for me. We're considering private school applications next year, and I'm definitely going to look into this aspect more carefully. It never occurred to me that college counselors at top private schools would be falling short, since a main end game for them is a good college placement record for their students. Thanks, PPs.

The counselors' Rolodexes, if they still use those, are legendary. The real value comes at the crunch time when they call a school to get your kid off the waitlist, although some claim this is overstated.

And compared to public, where one counselor is responsible for 100+ kids, it would be hard to perform badly.

I guess the issues being raised here are the extent to which counselors are willing/ able to guide your kid in the selection process. I think this is something we, the parents, need to be involved with instead of relying solely on the counselor. The problem, of course, is the parent who thinks the 9 schools should be the 8 ivies plus Stanford. Then it's the counselor's job to suggest Michigan, Tufts and their ilk, plus a few safeties including the state school. If the counselor fails to do this, out of gutlessness or ignorance, they have failed.

Actually at our MCPS HS the counselors have about 40 seniors each, so not too different from the Sidwell ratio. The difference is that they also have underclassmen to work with on non-college stuff (on the plus side they stick with the same group of kids for 4 years so my DC has worked with the counselor throughout HS). We found the counselor helpful in establishing the list and making sure there was the right mix on it. She knows my DC pretty well and has provided good guidance in a lot of areas (testing, athletic recruiting, etc.). What we don't get is help with essays and the actual application. But easy enough to buy that help from Prep Matters or another place if you need it.

It really isn't that hard to figure out the college process with a little research and time. And I really do think the pull of the private school counselors is overrated. Know plenty of qualified kids, at Sidwell and elsewhere, who did not get in to anything close to their top choices, or get in off any waitlists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My facts are all listed in this thread. It is obvious that most posters here do not have firsthand experience with Sidwell's college admissions office, and are just offering opinions based one second-hand, conflicting, and biased comments from anonymous posters who may (or may not) have firsthand experience. People are perfectly entitled to do that; everyone can have an opinion. But I find it a little ridiculous when some posters without firsthand knowledge express outrage and other strong views, based on weak info.

Seems to me that some posters here have preconceived views about Sidwell (they want to hate it), and are just using this topic and the limited facts available as an opportunity to express those preconceived views.

Personally, I don't have firsthand experience with Sidwell's college counseling office - and this thread has not taught me much - so I don't feel comfortable offering opinions about it. YMMV. Have a nice day.

Thank you for that. Are you saying that the posters who claim to have kids at Sidwell, and there are at least two of them, are lying?

The posters who claim to have firsthand knowledge offer opposing and inconsistent viewpoints. One poster (6/21@18:05) has peppered this thread with comments critical of Sidwell's college counseling, and does not explicitly say she is a Sidwell parent but seems to imply she is. Another (6/23@14:20) says "Having gone through the college process twice in the past several years with my kids at Sidwell, much of what is being purported in this thread is completely wrong in our experience...."

But unfortunately, most posts on this thread are unsolicited opinions about how the school should operate from people like you without any firsthand knowledge about how the school actually operates. I'd really like to hear more from people with actual knowledge, rather than people offering uninformed opinions. More light, less heat.

Anonymous wrote:If not, then you must be saying that other people who have opinions about these facts are either wrong, or not entitled to have opinions. So why don't you go ahead and explain your own views, because while your lectures leave us cold, we're interested in opposing views, I promise.

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to develop any views on the quality of Sidwell's college counseling program, because all the people providing actual firsthand knowledge about the program have been drowned out by the opinions of posters who have an axe to grind, but no firsthand knowledge.

But I guess that's just how DCUM goes sometimes. So alright ... you win ... post all the opinions you want. I'll search for actual info somewhere else, because this thread doesn't have any.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My facts are all listed in this thread. It is obvious that most posters here do not have firsthand experience with Sidwell's college admissions office, and are just offering opinions based one second-hand, conflicting, and biased comments from anonymous posters who may (or may not) have firsthand experience. People are perfectly entitled to do that; everyone can have an opinion. But I find it a little ridiculous when some posters without firsthand knowledge express outrage and other strong views, based on weak info.

Seems to me that some posters here have preconceived views about Sidwell (they want to hate it), and are just using this topic and the limited facts available as an opportunity to express those preconceived views.

Personally, I don't have firsthand experience with Sidwell's college counseling office - and this thread has not taught me much - so I don't feel comfortable offering opinions about it. YMMV. Have a nice day.

Thank you for that. Are you saying that the posters who claim to have kids at Sidwell, and there are at least two of them, are lying?

The posters who claim to have firsthand knowledge offer opposing and inconsistent viewpoints. One poster (6/21@18:05) has peppered this thread with comments critical of Sidwell's college counseling, and does not explicitly say she is a Sidwell parent but seems to imply she is. Another (6/23@14:20) says "Having gone through the college process twice in the past several years with my kids at Sidwell, much of what is being purported in this thread is completely wrong in our experience...."

But unfortunately, most posts on this thread are unsolicited opinions about how the school should operate from people like you without any firsthand knowledge about how the school actually operates. I'd really like to hear more from people with actual knowledge, rather than people offering uninformed opinions. More light, less heat.

Anonymous wrote:If not, then you must be saying that other people who have opinions about these facts are either wrong, or not entitled to have opinions. So why don't you go ahead and explain your own views, because while your lectures leave us cold, we're interested in opposing views, I promise.

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to develop any views on the quality of Sidwell's college counseling program, because all the people providing actual firsthand knowledge about the program have been drowned out by the opinions of posters who have an axe to grind, but no firsthand knowledge.

But I guess that's just how DCUM goes sometimes. So alright ... you win ... post all the opinions you want. I'll search for actual info somewhere else, because this thread doesn't have any.

You didn't find the edited Naviance info interesting? I did. And I have no reason to doubt it. But go ahead and ignore it if you want.

[Anonymous]

I went to big state school out west. Not Ivy League by a long shot. My parents had no money, so I worked and put myself through school (with the help of Pell grants and college loans.) Had a great time, met really interesting people, got a solid education, and am now very gainfully employed as an executive at a top Fortune 500 company in the area. I share this only to make a point. I interview TONS of graduates for entry level positions and guess how much emphasis I put on where they went to college? ZERO. Give me a hard-working, industrious kid who had a job in college (ie shows a work ethic), was smart enough to understand the importance of getting an internship while in school (real world work experience), can express themselves well both orally and in writing (shocking how very few college graduates can do either), and demonstrates a sincere desire to work at our company (ie researched the company and the role BEFORE coming in for the interview) ANYDAY. Seriously. So mucy crazy emphasis on getting into an Ivy and really, who cares? There are so many fantastic colleges out there today. My advice? Find the right environment for your child where he or she will thrive academically, learn to function independently, have the opportunity to challenge him/herself, and be happy. And, yes, make them GET A PART-TIME JOB while they are in school. Imho, that will get him/her much farther in life than getting into an Ivy.

[Anonymous]

bump

[Anonymous]

Our college guidance office is very strong. Among other things, the college counselors advise DC on which exams to take and when. For example, DC was advised to take Mathematics II SAT subject test after 10th grade, among other subject tests and AP exams, and DC obtained a perfect 800 score. It would not have otherwise occurred to us to have DC take some of these exams, and I am very grateful to our advisors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a rising senior at another private where the kids have complete access to Naviance. In our case, my DC has changed his perspective radically since beginning the process. After seeing some schools he has realized he actually wants an entirely different geographic area, size and academic approach. Now he may not be typical, but we think this is healthy that he has questioned his initial thoughts after actually seeing the schools. If he was restricted to one list of 30 schools, that would almost certainly lock out schools he will end up applying to because of the shift. So the Sidwell approach would absolutely not work in our case.

Plus, I have noticed a lot of paranoia by parents over the process -- what the counselors are and are not doing for them. It seems to me that by keeping this data secret, and being the conduit for edited data, it only serves to pump up the suspicion.

Finally, while some posters are saying that the Sidwell approach is superior to publics, and I don't doubt that is true, most of in this section have kids at privates. And Sidwell's approach is definitely unique among privates from everything I've read here.

By the way, they had a college night for 7th grade parents this year. To me that is a sign of incredibly craziness.

To clarify: Students are not restricted to the list of 30 schools; in fact, the list becomes irrelevant almost as soon as it is handed in -- that's the crazy part.

Oh, yeah, the other crazy party was the college night for 7th-grade parents. This went on at the same time that they were telling 11th-graders and their parents to chill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh, yeah, the other crazy party was the college night for 7th-grade parents.

This got me half curious because I don't know what current standard procedure is among educators for advising parents of 7th graders. A quick Google search suggests many schools tell parents of 7th graders to start considering college issues. Examples -

Albequerque Public Schools http://www.aps.edu/parents/documents/7th%20Grade%20Student%20and%20Family%20Guide
"In middle school, you should be told what courses your child should be
taking to go to college and steps that should be taken for your child to
apply for college."

Barnardo Heights Middle School 7th Grade College Readiness Parents Night
http://www.powayusd.com/pusdbhms/11-12/20117thGradeCollegeReadinessParentNight.pdf

National PTA organization https://pta.org/files/7th%20Grade%20June20.pdf

Others -
https://www.google.com/search?q=7th+grade+college+parents&oq=7th+grade+college+parents&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i62l3.5779j0&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#safe=off&sclient=psy-ab&q=7th+grade+college+parents+filetype:pdf&oq=7th+grade+college+parents+filetype:pdf&gs_l=serp.3...3389.3750.1.4021.2.2.0.0.0.0.152.261.0j2.2.0...0.0.0..1c.1.17.psy-ab.v7DH-I5byRk&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.48293060,d.eWU&fp=a710b5d9ce41f237&biw=1280&bih=963

[Anonymous]

More on college readiness -

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2009-05-18/news/36801176_1_college-readiness-college-ready-middle-school
http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/info/keys/documents/research.pdf
http://www.act.org/research/policymakers/pdf/CollegeReadiness.pdf ("College Readiness Begins in Middle School")