Bilingual Kids in Language Immersion ES Programs, Which Programs Have Many & Strive to Attract Them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a long time YY parent I am really sad to see the lies---yep, saying it---lies-- about preferential admission. They are scrupulous about being honest in the lottery and the wait list and I would caution everyone on this list to understand that the "dude we spoke to the VP" poster was a fraud. #1, the VP has no admission power, and #2, the school has turned down rich, mandarin-speaking chinese who offered tens of thousands to get in because they refuse to violate the lottery process. They have also turned in families who violated residency who could have made a big donor-difference to the school. And those folks were furious. Remember, you have no idea who is posting what/posing as whom on this listserv. And it would behoove everyone to question the motivations of the most virulent critics.

I think you're talking to me among other PPs.

Let me agree with you that the anecdotes you repeat above are TRUE. I'll stipulate as true the stories about Chinese people attempting to game the system by bribing officials. Can you imagine?!?

But there's something else that goes on, something I have first-hand knowledge of:

The admin. make sure that native speakers who make inquiries about admission before the lottery occurs will be placed at the top of any waitlist (assuming their # isn't chosen randomly.) So they're not cherry-picked in this scenario, but they're basically assured a post because they will be #1, # 2, #4 and #6 on the waitlist, and the school has historically at least gone to its waitlist after lottery.

Perhaps these favored applicants are encouraged by admin to arrive at 1 a.m. on lottery morning. Perhaps they camp out with a beach chair on the sidewalk, in the manner of scoring the new iPhone outside an Apple store. Hmm. It's odd, isn't it, how some families seem more likely to get into YY than others?

[Anonymous]

Perhaps even more troubling is how the admin sizes up applicants and if they "look like they aren't really interested in Chinese" they aren't informed that the waitlist is numbered by application date.

Lovely, lovely people, those YY administrators.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Totally agree that second gen kids raise the bar in Chinese classes. That was my experience in high school, college, and graduate school. Actually, when I was in high school and got better grades than some of the second gen kids who spoke at home, they would get punished for not trying hard enough. The lack of second gen kids at Yu Ying is one of my concerns about the school, but if my kid gets in will probably take the slot.

Your DC will not get in, unfortunately due to sibling preference.

I would not be so sure PP. My DC received the call in late September for a PK spot. DC doesn't have any siblings.

How far down the waitlist did they get last yr for preK?

This yr, the siblings from the jumbo preK class, rising 1st, will be applying so there will be many more siblings than previous yrs for preK. But hopefully there will be some spots for the lottery.

Why are you so sure that so many families with kids in the bubble class have kids in that specific age range? Of the ~20 families in that class whose family structure I'm familiar with, only one or two have a rising PK kid.

You're the 3rd person to ask that PP about this, and they've had no response, which means they were talking out of their you know where and they can't back it up. Don't hold your breath for an explanation (and that mega 1st grade class is NOT an explanation, since even the school itself is not thinking that plus sibs from other grades will take up the whole PK entering class).

I'm not the PP who made that comment, but I'll take a stab at an answer. This isn't specific to Yu Ying, but to lots of elementary schools. In my observation, the most common spacing between siblings is two years. The actual difference in months may be anywhere from 18 to 30, but the most common pattern I see (everywhere - not just Yu Ying) is siblings two grades apart. I suppose the person (or people) making that declaration is just basing their opinion on that general pattern. It's hardly a scientific and precise count, but it's not an unreasonable assumption, either.

That's all. Everyone can continue to sling arrows at each other again.

Yeah, but because YY doesn't have PS-3, the entire new class of PK-4 is the entry class. That is totally different from all the other schools that have rising PS-3 kids plus siblings to consider before they even look at lottery slots. I have gone to numerous places where there were YY reps (MOTH, Charter Expo, YY open house) and every time anyone asked that question, while of course there can't be certainty about how many PK-4 slots, no one thinks ALL of them will go to sibs of current students. Not even close.

Still, when you factor in how many are applying and how many slots, the odds still suck. But they don't suck 100%, which is what that PP said when s/he said "Your kid will not get in". You cannot make that a certain comment when PK-4 is entry level and the OP never said what grade their kid is going into.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a long time YY parent I am really sad to see the lies---yep, saying it---lies-- about preferential admission. They are scrupulous about being honest in the lottery and the wait list and I would caution everyone on this list to understand that the "dude we spoke to the VP" poster was a fraud. #1, the VP has no admission power, and #2, the school has turned down rich, mandarin-speaking chinese who offered tens of thousands to get in because they refuse to violate the lottery process. They have also turned in families who violated residency who could have made a big donor-difference to the school. And those folks were furious. Remember, you have no idea who is posting what/posing as whom on this listserv. And it would behoove everyone to question the motivations of the most virulent critics.

I think you're talking to me among other PPs.

Let me agree with you that the anecdotes you repeat above are TRUE. I'll stipulate as true the stories about Chinese people attempting to game the system by bribing officials. Can you imagine?!?

But there's something else that goes on, something I have first-hand knowledge of:

The admin. make sure that native speakers who make inquiries about admission before the lottery occurs will be placed at the top of any waitlist (assuming their # isn't chosen randomly.) So they're not cherry-picked in this scenario, but they're basically assured a post because they will be #1, # 2, #4 and #6 on the waitlist, and the school has historically at least gone to its waitlist after lottery.

Perhaps these favored applicants are encouraged by admin to arrive at 1 a.m. on lottery morning. Perhaps they camp out with a beach chair on the sidewalk, in the manner of scoring the new iPhone outside an Apple store. Hmm. It's odd, isn't it, how some families seem more likely to get into YY than others?

I was within the first 10 people in line this year, and maybe I'm forgetting someone but I don't remember ANYONE who spoke of being a native speaker or having native-speaking kids. None in the first 10. And if you don't think the first 10 in person know who they were, and the first few who made it through online know who they are... you are fooling yourself.

Is it possible that somewhere in there some one, maybe two names could be slipped onto the waitlist and everyone told they got on legit? Sure, that's possible. But not more than a couple, and rumor has it the school Admins know how many people would love to see YY fail and would jump to report at any evidence of skirting the rules... and it hasn't happened because they're vigilant about not screwing up the rules.

So yes, this is anonymous, and sometimes the truth comes out more on anyonymous boards. But equally true is that for those with a serious axe to grind, there is no accountability if you lie on an anonymous board, and I don't believe for a second that YY Admins are dumb enough to turn down some rich/connected native speakers but let others skip the line. I don't believe they're letting anyone skip the line. Guess we'll see who the first few are that are offered slots after the lottery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So dude, you got in? So all the dialect speakers can arrange a meeting with the VP so they can jump the line...

Yes, in. Don't know if the dialect speakers get the same treatment, doubt it, since no one in admin speaks a dialect. The "meeting" was in Mandarin (I also speak a dialect, but not my child). Planning to go private for 2nd or 3rd, so our spot will stay empty for several years unless something changes. Ridiculous when we know Mandarin-speaking kids whose parents would take it.

If thinking that YY could be friendlier to native speakers to boost enrollment of bilingual kids makes me a crazy, I'll go with that.



This does not surprise me and I'm generally pro YY. Which class? Prior to the current preK, YY has gone through their entire waitlist for preK so any favoritism like what happened to you really made no difference. At least this will make "let's recruit more native speakers" people happy.


Not true. I can't speak to other classes, but this year's 1st grade class (students who entered PreK in Fall of 2010) definitely did not go through the waitlist. We have some friends who were in the 20s and they never got a call, even once the September shuffle started.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a long time YY parent I am really sad to see the lies---yep, saying it---lies-- about preferential admission. They are scrupulous about being honest in the lottery and the wait list and I would caution everyone on this list to understand that the "dude we spoke to the VP" poster was a fraud. #1, the VP has no admission power, and #2, the school has turned down rich, mandarin-speaking chinese who offered tens of thousands to get in because they refuse to violate the lottery process. They have also turned in families who violated residency who could have made a big donor-difference to the school. And those folks were furious. Remember, you have no idea who is posting what/posing as whom on this listserv. And it would behoove everyone to question the motivations of the most virulent critics.

Please, I've been around long enough to know that it happens. The administrators at charters have "soft" admission power once the computer has established a wait list. The YY principal has been know to tell the parents of Mandarin-speaking children that she'll "be in touch." If you don't believe that YY plucks off the wait list like almost every other charter, your prerogative but I'm taking it all with a grain of salt (or maybe a bag of salt). The advantage of anonymous posting is that the truth is more likely to surface than on MOTH or wherever.

The disadvantage of anonymous posting is that lies and libel are more likely to surface when people can say whatever they like with impunity since they don't have stand behind their words.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:YY has gone through it's entire waitlist for preK until the current preK case. So are you saying there were people "plucked" from the waitlist this yr due to favoritism? When DCI was also on the table in front of the charter board? Hard to believe. In fact, unbelievable.

No, it has not. The current first grade didn't get very far down the waitlist when they were in PreK.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Every preK class except for the current preK class has gone through the entire waitlist. Everyone who was on the waitlist was offered a spot. No need to play favorites or line jump.

The current preK class is the only preK class since YY's inception which has not gone through the entire waitlist. Hard to believe YY would offend the charter board by circumventing charter rules at the same time they were trying to get DCI approved. The school in fact has been cracking down on things like non-residents attending the school and made a show of following the rules generally. It's one of the very few DC publics, charter or DCPs that actually threw out non-residents.

While your reading comprehension is poor, I urge you to read this several times before you comment.

This is NOT true. Please stop repeating untruths.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So dude, you got in? So all the dialect speakers can arrange a meeting with the VP so they can jump the line...

Yes, in. Don't know if the dialect speakers get the same treatment, doubt it, since no one in admin speaks a dialect. The "meeting" was in Mandarin (I also speak a dialect, but not my child). Planning to go private for 2nd or 3rd, so our spot will stay empty for several years unless something changes. Ridiculous when we know Mandarin-speaking kids whose parents would take it.

If thinking that YY could be friendlier to native speakers to boost enrollment of bilingual kids makes me a crazy, I'll go with that.

This does not surprise me and I'm generally pro YY. Which class? Prior to the current preK, YY has gone through their entire waitlist for preK so any favoritism like what happened to you really made no difference. At least this will make "let's recruit more native speakers" people happy.


Not true. I can't speak to other classes, but this year's 1st grade class (students who entered PreK in Fall of 2010) definitely did not go through the waitlist. We have some friends who were in the 20s and they never got a call, even once the September shuffle started.

Then your friends missed the email and phone calls, we were on the waitlist, 20ties, and currently in 1st and we got off the waitlist in May that yr. I don't know how far into the waitlist they went into that yr but know people in the 80ties who got in.

[Anonymous]

^and just for the record, we aren't or know Chinese.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The request was made recently. LAMB only stopped their dual lottery this year.

A school like Bridges catering to SN kids probably has a better chance of getting a waiver for preferential admissions than YY who wants more bilingual speakers. Either way, preferential admissions to charters is not something the charter board wants to do.

I specifically asked at the charter expo if LAMB had a dual lottery. The rep. was visually miffed that I brought it up and snapped that they had preferential admissions "a few years" ago, but had to stop. Does anyone have the scoop on this. There isn't a spot for natives on the app. Should I call and mention that my kid is native (non-Hispanic last name) to see if she get the nod and wink "in" that people keep saying still exists there? How should I approach this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

So dude, you got in? So all the dialect speakers can arrange a meeting with the VP so they can jump the line...

Yes, in. Don't know if the dialect speakers get the same treatment, doubt it, since no one in admin speaks a dialect. The "meeting" was in Mandarin (I also speak a dialect, but not my child). Planning to go private for 2nd or 3rd, so our spot will stay empty for several years unless something changes. Ridiculous when we know Mandarin-speaking kids whose parents would take it.

If thinking that YY could be friendlier to native speakers to boost enrollment of bilingual kids makes me a crazy, I'll go with that.




Why go private now. Did the school not measure up?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"I live in a great neighborhood AND I can afford to move to any MoCo neighborhood on a whim if I choose. Poor me that YY isn't perfect for me. I certainly don't want to invest my time an energy when I have other choices. I guess I'll have to fall back on one of my other really terrific options."

Pretty much sums up, OP. LOL!

[Anonymous]

Another YY lie: the VP (assistant principal) does not speak Chinese. She also has nothing to do with the lottery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yes, you're wrong.

Posts like this always give me the sense that a lot of folks out there are jealous or have an inferiority complex.

No, she or he is most assuredly not wrong.

Posts like this always give me the sense that a lot of folks out there are in for a tremendous shock if they or their children ever land in a Chinese-speaking swathe of the earth. It's an intense culture, putting it mildly. If anybody's jealous or has an inferiority complex here it's those who are intimidated by native speakers. They're less intimidating when you know them than when you don't.

No one is intimidated by native speakers other than finding some native speakers who complain about dialect speakers not getting preferential treatment in admissions obnoxious. For the last time, charters are not allowed to preferential treatment. Even Bridges which has an excellent program for SN kids cannot give preferential admissions to SN kids who would really benefit from their program. Yet you never hear those parents complaining about the lottery like the Chinese dialect speakers do about YY. Give it a rest, you get the same exact chance as everyone else.

^This.

+2. And if it's the dude claiming that they got preferential admission via the non Mandarin speaking VP, crazy with too much time on their hands.