Over 280 University of California STEM faculty members have signed an open letter calling on the UC Board of Regents to

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"For example, for three consecutive year, 20-30% of UC Berkeley first-semester calculus students who participated in mathematical diagnostic testing displayed severe[b][u] preparation deficits."

Ouch.

How is this going to be fixed by SAT scores if it is the HS math instruction that sucks?

If you only admit students with an SAT math score of 700+ for STEM majors at UCLA/Berkeley, then you will have a well-prepared undergraduate class, regarld of HS teaching quality.

I do think most with low SAT math scores ended up not doing STEM, as they couldn’t pass the “weed out” prerequisites. Many of those kids might have to change their intended majors quite a few times as they move down the list, shattering their confidence in the meanwhile.

Most people with low sat scores aren’t interested in a stem major. The assumption everyone wants to do stem is plaguing this thread. Not everyone needs differential equations; I’d even argue most don’t

The issue is not differential equations or even just elementary calculus. But a subset of these kids can’t even do very basic algebra. The SAT math has always been a bit of a job, even in my generation.

*joke, not job

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"For example, for three consecutive year, 20-30% of UC Berkeley first-semester calculus students who participated in mathematical diagnostic testing displayed severe[b][u] preparation deficits."

Ouch.

How is this going to be fixed by SAT scores if it is the HS math instruction that sucks?

If you only admit students with an SAT math score of 700+ for STEM majors at UCLA/Berkeley, then you will have a well-prepared undergraduate class, regarld of HS teaching quality.

I do think most with low SAT math scores ended up not doing STEM, as they couldn’t pass the “weed out” prerequisites. Many of those kids might have to change their intended majors quite a few times as they move down the list, shattering their confidence in the meanwhile.

Most non STEM majors still have to take calculus, and the professors are saying that these kids need remedial math. They are not ready for college math even as non STEM majors.

Why would they still have to take calculus? It’s completely useless to what they want to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:The SAT is a racist test. There is no reason to go back to it.

The SAT is the best measure to identify and elevate smart and brilliant minority kids who are otherwised overlooked and ignored by test optional.

Test optional specifically benefits mediocre wealthy students of all colors and races.

Can you explain how they’re overlooked? If you don’t have good grades, you are not qualified.

Grades are subjective, and then there's grade inflation. K-12 public in CA is a mess. It's why we left CA (that an housing prices are insane in the Bay Area). Prop 13 really messed up the education budget. While CA spends a lot, it also costs a lot more to live there, so I bet if you adjust the spending by cost, CA ends up not spending much per pupil.

I went through K-12 and public college in CA, and Prop 13 hit when I entered in jr high school (as it was called then). Lots of things were cut. My older siblings had things that I didn't have in MS/HS.

The high achieving students I know in CA who go to Cal/UCLA took the SAT and scored high (1500+).

TO is hurting the very kids the UC is trying to help, namely by admitting them into college unprepared, which causes them to struggle, which causes them to drop out.

If the grades are so inflated, why would you take a student with poor grades then? This seems very circular. The issue sounds like they need to fix grades first. The SAT sounds more like a buffer for a much more severe issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"For example, for three consecutive year, 20-30% of UC Berkeley first-semester calculus students who participated in mathematical diagnostic testing displayed severe[b][u] preparation deficits."

Ouch.

How is this going to be fixed by SAT scores if it is the HS math instruction that sucks?

If you only admit students with an SAT math score of 700+ for STEM majors at UCLA/Berkeley, then you will have a well-prepared undergraduate class, regarld of HS teaching quality.

You will eliminate the vast majority of black and hispanic students. The faculty can chirp all they want. Talk of reinstating the SAT is just a fantasy.

The UC Regents outlined the eugenicist origins of standardized testing, arguing the tests were historically designed to validate white superiority and maintain institutional exclusion.

The most progressive state in the country is not going to go back to a test with its roots in white supremacy.

Algebra is racist. Testing is racist. And then you wonder why Trump gets elected.

Sorry math is not racist, if you can’t score a 700 on today’s watered down SAT you have no business pursuing a STEM major in college.

There is a path for everyone, not everyone needs to be able to tackle differential equations or linear Algebra but some STEM careers do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"For example, for three consecutive year, 20-30% of UC Berkeley first-semester calculus students who participated in mathematical diagnostic testing displayed severe[b][u] preparation deficits."

Ouch.

How is this going to be fixed by SAT scores if it is the HS math instruction that sucks?

If you only admit students with an SAT math score of 700+ for STEM majors at UCLA/Berkeley, then you will have a well-prepared undergraduate class, regarld of HS teaching quality.

You will eliminate the vast majority of black and hispanic students. The faculty can chirp all they want. Talk of reinstating the SAT is just a fantasy.

The UC Regents outlined the eugenicist origins of standardized testing, arguing the tests were historically designed to validate white superiority and maintain institutional exclusion.

The most progressive state in the country is not going to go back to a test with its roots in white supremacy.

Algebra is racist. Testing is racist. And then you wonder why Trump gets elected.

Yes. A bunch of idiots believe stupid RWNJ talking points.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Math is the only subject that has this massive genius expectation. It’s the only subject where people are constantly trying to push students to the maximum and accelerate them. Imagine how much better our country would be if we put 1/10th of this energy into science education.

Or reading/writing.

It's a stupid race to nowhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"For example, for three consecutive year, 20-30% of UC Berkeley first-semester calculus students who participated in mathematical diagnostic testing displayed severe[b][u] preparation deficits."

Ouch.

How is this going to be fixed by SAT scores if it is the HS math instruction that sucks?

100% sounds like they need to do an audit on California’s public education system.

Apologies. Scratch that. No audit needed. Sounds like they need to hold students back and put failing schools on probation.

Alabama did something like this and about 10-15% of students are threatened with being held back but they get a chance to advance if they successfully complete summer school and ultimately only about 1-2% get held back
This improved Alabama's education results from among the worst states to among the best states.
Injecting consequences to academic failure made it much less common.
It costs money to run summer schools but it seems worth it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The SAT is a racist test. There is no reason to go back to it.

What makes them racist?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"For example, for three consecutive year, 20-30% of UC Berkeley first-semester calculus students who participated in mathematical diagnostic testing displayed severe[b][u] preparation deficits."

Ouch.

How is this going to be fixed by SAT scores if it is the HS math instruction that sucks?

If you only admit students with an SAT math score of 700+ for STEM majors at UCLA/Berkeley, then you will have a well-prepared undergraduate class, regarld of HS teaching quality.

You will eliminate the vast majority of black and hispanic students. The faculty can chirp all they want. Talk of reinstating the SAT is just a fantasy.

The UC Regents outlined the eugenicist origins of standardized testing, arguing the tests were historically designed to validate white superiority and maintain institutional exclusion.

The most progressive state in the country is not going to go back to a test with its roots in white supremacy.

Algebra is racist. Testing is racist. And then you wonder why Trump gets elected.

Yes. A bunch of idiots believe stupid RWNJ talking points.

Just like you are an idiot overdosed on left wing woke talking points who does not know what went on for 12 years in California schools - like banning Algebra in middle schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Math is the only subject that has this massive genius expectation. It’s the only subject where people are constantly trying to push students to the maximum and accelerate them. Imagine how much better our country would be if we put 1/10th of this energy into science education.

Or reading/writing.

It's a stupid race to nowhere.

+1, can we get kids who understand statistics and history? This obsession with 2 subjects that are tested to death and the emphasis of your entire k-12 education is crowding out that there’s more to life than taking Linear Algebra in high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The SAT is a racist test. There is no reason to go back to it.

What makes them racist?

Anything where the participants (or participants who excel in it) do not represent the US demographics may be called racist by a segment of our society.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am surprised so few of them signed this letter. Where are the rest? Are they happy with the current state of UC education?

You think 280 STEM professors at Berkeley isn't a lot? That's half the total STEM faculty.

It's 280 all over the UC system, not just Berkeley.

Not all professors agree with this. I don’t know why they’re recommending the SAT when the UC system was supposed to be developing its own rigorous exam designed by UC faculty.

They looked into the CAASPP as an alternative. The CAASPP is California's state-wide academic barometer test given to different grades, like 8th, 11th. The same racial disparities that afflicted the SAT were found in the CAASPP. The use of standardized testing is a very sensitive one in California because there is the belief that white supremacy has infected the entirety of how academic achievement is measured and that whatever path California takes has to be completely distinct from all past iterations.

The UC system looked at developing its own test but decided against it.

The system went test optional over the objections of Faculty, the Faculty Commission that was tasked with reviewing the SAT found that it was a better predicator of success in college when viewed in conjunction with grades, than grades alone, and should be continued to be used. The UC Board of Overseers overruled them for political reasons.

It was race. They were forbidden from using race as a factor and they couldn't get the racial profile they wanted while testing was still in place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"For example, for three consecutive year, 20-30% of UC Berkeley first-semester calculus students who participated in mathematical diagnostic testing displayed severe[b][u] preparation deficits."

Ouch.

How is this going to be fixed by SAT scores if it is the HS math instruction that sucks?

Most likely by admitting fewer unprepared students. Right now UC's admit by high school. The lower SES, URM high schools have the same admissions chances as high performing ones. Presumably the SAT will provide cover to deviate from this and pick more Asian and white students.

This sounds like a lot of extrapolation. The professors aren’t interested in picking and choosing demographics for their classes. They just want students entering Calc 2 who have actually taken and performed, as expected by exams, well in calc 1. Berkeley has an institutional mission to give opportunity to a wide population of California residents, not just the Bay Area and SoCal elites.

What’s really happening is professors do not have the levers necessary to improve the k-12 system, so the only tool they do have is the one standardized exam.

What's really happening is that they can't use affirmative-action so they can't admit as many URM as they want without eliminating tests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"For example, for three consecutive year, 20-30% of UC Berkeley first-semester calculus students who participated in mathematical diagnostic testing displayed severe[b][u] preparation deficits."

Ouch.

How is this going to be fixed by SAT scores if it is the HS math instruction that sucks?

If you only admit students with an SAT math score of 700+ for STEM majors at UCLA/Berkeley, then you will have a well-prepared undergraduate class, regarld of HS teaching quality.

I do think most with low SAT math scores ended up not doing STEM, as they couldn’t pass the “weed out” prerequisites. Many of those kids might have to change their intended majors quite a few times as they move down the list, shattering their confidence in the meanwhile.

Most non STEM majors still have to take calculus, and the professors are saying that these kids need remedial math. They are not ready for college math even as non STEM majors.

I thought the letter only urges UC to require SAT math for admitted STEM majors, no?

yea, but they should do it for non STEM majors, too. As a PP stated:

"For example, for three consecutive year, 20-30% of UC Berkeley first-semester calculus students who participated in mathematical diagnostic testing displayed severe[b][u] preparation deficits."

I thought these included non STEM majors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Math is the only subject that has this massive genius expectation. It’s the only subject where people are constantly trying to push students to the maximum and accelerate them. Imagine how much better our country would be if we put 1/10th of this energy into science education.

Or reading/writing.

It's a stupid race to nowhere.

+1, can we get kids who understand statistics and history? This obsession with 2 subjects that are tested to death and the emphasis of your entire k-12 education is crowding out that there’s more to life than taking Linear Algebra in high school.

Forget linear alg in HS. Some of these kids can barely do Alg 1.