Why all the Chicago bashing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like this is the general consensus of the thread:

Those who are hyper-obsessed with rankings & prestige over academics & post-grad outcomes tend to think lower of UChicago because they attract the majority of their students from the ED pool (which, in their minds, must make the school an undeserving T10).

Those who know about academics, job placement, and support their children no matter what college they fall in love with think UChicago is an excellent school that equips students with the skills they need to do extremely well in their future.

Signed, a concerned UChicago student from the DC area.

I think this is generally correct.

For those of us who are a little older, Chicago was always known as the "intellectual" school. We visited three years ago - and it still seemed like one of the smart schools. Good vibe. Smart kids. Generally very good professors. Tons of opportunities. Great city. Very nice campus.

But private school families seem to have some disdain for it. Personally, I think Chicago should embrace their roots and be the intellectual school, never mind the Sidwell and Dalton families. Chicago has raised their profile enough in recent years. They should remember their identity - and be the difficult, passionate, intense, nerd school that made Chicago Chicago.

PP. I would be hesitant to define the two sides as being separated by private and public school families. If you said anything akin to UChicago being "undeserving" of its rank (like previous posters) to families and college counselors at these top high schools you name, you would likely be looked at very weirdly and/or judged. Coming from my own experience, the kids and families at top high schools who put HYPSM & ivies on a pedestal and placed their worth on an "elite" acceptance weren't exactly the happiest come May 1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like this is the general consensus of the thread:

Those who are hyper-obsessed with rankings & prestige over academics & post-grad outcomes tend to think lower of UChicago because they attract the majority of their students from the ED pool (which, in their minds, must make the school an undeserving T10).

Those who know about academics, job placement, and support their children no matter what college they fall in love with think UChicago is an excellent school that equips students with the skills they need to do extremely well in their future.

Signed, a concerned UChicago student from the DC area.

I think this is generally correct.

For those of us who are a little older, Chicago was always known as the "intellectual" school. We visited three years ago - and it still seemed like one of the smart schools. Good vibe. Smart kids. Generally very good professors. Tons of opportunities. Great city. Very nice campus.

But private school families seem to have some disdain for it. Personally, I think Chicago should embrace their roots and be the intellectual school, never mind the Sidwell and Dalton families. Chicago has raised their profile enough in recent years. They should remember their identity - and be the difficult, passionate, intense, nerd school that made Chicago Chicago.

NP. As an alumnus, this is how I feel as well. The acceptance rate was something like 40% when I went, and it was an amazing education. I get worried whenever it feels like it's becoming just another elite school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like this is the general consensus of the thread:

Those who are hyper-obsessed with rankings & prestige over academics & post-grad outcomes tend to think lower of UChicago because they attract the majority of their students from the ED pool (which, in their minds, must make the school an undeserving T10).

Those who know about academics, job placement, and support their children no matter what college they fall in love with think UChicago is an excellent school that equips students with the skills they need to do extremely well in their future.

Signed, a concerned UChicago student from the DC area.

Why “concerned”?

Concerned because this forum cares too much about US News' rankings.

Why do you care what this forum thinks?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like this is the general consensus of the thread:

Those who are hyper-obsessed with rankings & prestige over academics & post-grad outcomes tend to think lower of UChicago because they attract the majority of their students from the ED pool (which, in their minds, must make the school an undeserving T10).

Those who know about academics, job placement, and support their children no matter what college they fall in love with think UChicago is an excellent school that equips students with the skills they need to do extremely well in their future.

Signed, a concerned UChicago student from the DC area.

Why “concerned”?

Concerned because this forum cares too much about US News' rankings.

Why do you care what this forum thinks?

PP. In high school, I had friends with parents like the ones who comment here on DCUM who felt extremely pressured and stressed the whole college application process. It took a serious toll on their mental health. Their parents had the tendency to define my friends based on the best school that accepted them; and their pressure didn't make them perform better in the process, only have more anxiety going through it. I'm aware that many parents come to this forum, and when rhetoric like "UChicago doesn't deserve to be #6, elite school X is miles better than elite school Y," etc. is spread, it's only encourages that sort of behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like this is the general consensus of the thread:

Those who are hyper-obsessed with rankings & prestige over academics & post-grad outcomes tend to think lower of UChicago because they attract the majority of their students from the ED pool (which, in their minds, must make the school an undeserving T10).

Those who know about academics, job placement, and support their children no matter what college they fall in love with think UChicago is an excellent school that equips students with the skills they need to do extremely well in their future.

Signed, a concerned UChicago student from the DC area.

I think this is generally correct.

For those of us who are a little older, Chicago was always known as the "intellectual" school. We visited three years ago - and it still seemed like one of the smart schools. Good vibe. Smart kids. Generally very good professors. Tons of opportunities. Great city. Very nice campus.

But private school families seem to have some disdain for it. Personally, I think Chicago should embrace their roots and be the intellectual school, never mind the Sidwell and Dalton families. Chicago has raised their profile enough in recent years. They should remember their identity - and be the difficult, passionate, intense, nerd school that made Chicago Chicago.

NP. As an alumnus, this is how I feel as well. The acceptance rate was something like 40% when I went, and it was an amazing education. I get worried whenever it feels like it's becoming just another elite school.

There are still kids who go to UChicago because it’s “difficult, passionate, intense, nerd school”. That’s exactly what appeals to my DC (who is in private school, by the way). DC is excited about taking core classes (HUM and SOSC), being challenged and working super hard (on psets that take 20 hours per week), as well as exploring Chicago.

[Anonymous]

I am sure a lot of students get a great education at Chicago and would encourage my kids to apply early if they wanted to go. But overall, do I think their strategy of taking most applicants ED is good for society or consistent with the obligations of a tax-exempt institution? No I do not. It is clearly a way of gaming the US News rankings. But again, don't hate the player, hate the game. My real ire is directed at US News.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am sure a lot of students get a great education at Chicago and would encourage my kids to apply early if they wanted to go. But overall, do I think their strategy of taking most applicants ED is good for society or consistent with the obligations of a tax-exempt institution? No I do not. It is clearly a way of gaming the US News rankings. But again, don't hate the player, hate the game. My real ire is directed at US News.

The rankings are NOT based on acceptance rate. How many times does this need to be pointed out?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am sure a lot of students get a great education at Chicago and would encourage my kids to apply early if they wanted to go. But overall, do I think their strategy of taking most applicants ED is good for society or consistent with the obligations of a tax-exempt institution? No I do not. It is clearly a way of gaming the US News rankings. But again, don't hate the player, hate the game. My real ire is directed at US News.

Why? You can choose not to look at the US News ranking. It's a magazine, why giving it any credibility?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am sure a lot of students get a great education at Chicago and would encourage my kids to apply early if they wanted to go. But overall, do I think their strategy of taking most applicants ED is good for society or consistent with the obligations of a tax-exempt institution? No I do not. It is clearly a way of gaming the US News rankings. But again, don't hate the player, hate the game. My real ire is directed at US News.

Why? You can choose not to look at the US News ranking. It's a magazine, why giving it any credibility?

I have not looked at the US News rankings in about a decade but I know colleges care about their rankings and the way they rank on other lists and that can impact who gets accepted so it impacts my kids whether or not we ever look at the lists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Chicago checked a lot of boxes for dc who was accepted ED1. In a city, prestigious/selective, smart student body, private, mid-size, beautiful campus. DC did not want huge Greek, tailgate culture or a SLAC. It was pretty much Columbia, Penn or Chicago and we are in NYC so definitely wanted someplace else. If it’s a fallback to HYPMS, well that’s a pretty amazing place to be.

This also describes my DC exactly, who also chose ED1 to Chicago. Would he have taken a guaranteed spot at HYPMS instead? Yes. Would it have been smart to pass up ED1 to Chicago for the 0.01% chance his application somehow would have been randomly selected for HYP? Of course not. So yes, the higher acceptance rate was a factor in the decision, but it had nothing to do with the school's position on the US News list. If his second choice to HYP had been Rice or Emory or anything else, he would have done ED1 to one of those instead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The concealed acceptance rate at the University of Chicago is quite high in the three, yes 3, ED rounds (ED0, ED1, & ED2).

Billy? Is that you??

What “Billy” said is what everybody knows: The acceptance rate at the University of Chicago is quite high in the three, yes 3, ED rounds (ED0, ED1, & ED2).

That’s really no change from the 80s/90s when their overall acceptance rate was quite high. Then and now, it’s a self-selecting pool of academic kids from wealthy families.

The difference is that now Chicago spends a ton of money recruiting RD applications for the sole purpose of rejecting them. And of course this causes the people who apply RD to have negative feelings about the school. And since far more people apply RD than attend, the general view of Chicago is negative.

To be clear, the general view of Chicago from people who attend and other institutions is positive. The general view of people who applied but didn't get accepted. The rest of the world is indifferent because nobody cares where you went to school, Billy. Just like nobody cares exactly what is in Coca-Cola. It is a successful brand of soda pop. It is not a "mind control" serum or whatever batsh*t crazy thing you used to say.

I don’t know who Billy is, nor do I care; but I have no tolerance for bad analogies.

I think UChicago is a “positive” outcome. So is Georgetown (a decidedly tougher admit than Chicago). But when people, like OP, call it a T6 (when it is somewhere in the back end of the top 20, if that) and think they are elite signaling, for undergrad that is, I feel sorry for them and their ilk. I don’t feel sorry for you, though.

The answer to OP’s question, applying Occam’s razor, is simple: it’s not really a top 10 school.

I feel sorry for people who know so little about academia that they make all of their judgements based on how “tough” of an admit a school is.

So, tell me, why is Chicago the “bargain” top 10 school in reality but not in terms of selectivity (so all applicants and their parents can have their cake and eat it, too). Not talking about grad school. You have said nothing on that, continually: no more empty proclamations.

It has been said repeatedly on this thread. The core curriculum is both unique and rigorous with small discussion-based seminars. Chicago doesn’t grade inflate and you have to work very hard to do well. Quarter system allows for more exploration. It is a top 10 school in multiple disciplines, especially in social and physical sciences. This isn’t just a grad school thing, it both rates highly (including to the extent undergrad disciplines get rated, like in IR) and students benefit from research opportunities and access to top professors in their fields. Job placement is excellent, especially-but not only-in Chicago. Reputation is extremely high both in academia and amongst employers.

You, on the other hand, haven’t said shit about anything other than admissions rates. Talk about empty proclamations.

- Twice as many core requirements than schools not named Columbia means less opportunity for exploration, not more
- Most kids take a core course during the summer to even make a double major possible. This is a cash cow for Chicago, as it is another 10k tuition. Something applicants and their parents never think about at the time.
- Most core classes are not taught by tenure track profs
- IR? Really? You are making Georgetown look better and better than Chicago
- Subject rankings are about grad school. But certain of its top grad programs and niche departments are being cut.
- 30% of Chicago undergrads are Econ majors and that number increases yearly. At what point is the competition for jobs too much.
- Enrollment has doubled the last generation

Any other points to easily rebut? You are a pretty ignorant dude who apparently knows very little about Chicago. I’ll talk real slow and write real simple so you can understand better. You need help, after all.

IR is one of the few subjects that has an undergraduate-specific ranking from a well-respected ranking source, which is why I mentioned it. And yes, Chicago is top 10: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inside_the_Ivory_Tower

But no, subject rankings are not “about grad school.” They are about departments, and Chicago is top 10 in most of them. And undergrads benefit from that when they study in those departments, whether it is having access to significant resources, access to professors (which is the case at Chicago) or benefitting from being part of a school and department whose reputation is very high (also the case). It’s almost like you never even went to college. You’re probably one of those people who think grad school is just for kids who can’t find jobs.

As for jobs, it hasn’t seemed to hinder anyone thus far in the slightest. Probably benefitting from the reputation of the econ DEPARTMENT.

In any event, whine more about those admissions practices and leave the substantive discussion to the adults.

Since GW outranks Chicago overall (there are three categories, after all, and Chicago is top 10 in only one of them; tied for 10th doesn’t count), does that make GW a top 10 school? How about American? Also top 10. You are on a DMV site and espousing IR as the major to underscore Chicago’s elite status. Not a good look.

No, because IR is just one example and Chicago is top 10 in a whole host of subjects. GWU is not. Keep up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel like this is the general consensus of the thread:

Those who are hyper-obsessed with rankings & prestige over academics & post-grad outcomes tend to think lower of UChicago because they attract the majority of their students from the ED pool (which, in their minds, must make the school an undeserving T10).

Those who know about academics, job placement, and support their children no matter what college they fall in love with think UChicago is an excellent school that equips students with the skills they need to do extremely well in their future.

Signed, a concerned UChicago student from the DC area.

Agree this sums it up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Here is the evidence for sane minds

From USnews

Year
U.S. News National Ranking (Approx.)
2010
#9 nationally
2011
#5 nationally
2012
#4 nationally
2013
#5 nationally
2014
#4 nationally
2015
#4 nationally
2016
#3 nationally
2017
#3 nationally
2018
#3 nationally
2019
#6 nationally
2020
#6 nationally
2021
#6 nationally
2022
#6 nationally
2023
#12 nationally
2024
#11 nationally
2025
likely #11 nationally (Based on reported data)
2026
#6 nationally (latest confirmed)
Year

U.S. News National Ranking (Approx.)

I remember the days when Chicago was T3 for a long period of time. And Columbia was T2.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like this is the general consensus of the thread:

Those who are hyper-obsessed with rankings & prestige over academics & post-grad outcomes tend to think lower of UChicago because they attract the majority of their students from the ED pool (which, in their minds, must make the school an undeserving T10).

Those who know about academics, job placement, and support their children no matter what college they fall in love with think UChicago is an excellent school that equips students with the skills they need to do extremely well in their future.

Signed, a concerned UChicago student from the DC area.

I think this is generally correct.

For those of us who are a little older, Chicago was always known as the "intellectual" school. We visited three years ago - and it still seemed like one of the smart schools. Good vibe. Smart kids. Generally very good professors. Tons of opportunities. Great city. Very nice campus.

But private school families seem to have some disdain for it. Personally, I think Chicago should embrace their roots and be the intellectual school, never mind the Sidwell and Dalton families. Chicago has raised their profile enough in recent years. They should remember their identity - and be the difficult, passionate, intense, nerd school that made Chicago Chicago.

No one has distain for it. Everyone thinks of it as a highly intellectual place.

We are simply saying (for the one millionth time) that Chicago routinely takes kids with middle-of-the-class GPAs whereas the other top15 schools do not.

At our school, college counseling will suggest Chicago as a sure-thing ED2 for any top kid who was rejected ED1/SCEA from another top20 school. They will also suggest Chicago for families who want prestige and/or a high academic school but have a kid without top grades. Scoir/Naviance do not lie. Chicago takes kids down to a 3.5 at our school every year. As such, it has lost some of it's sparkle. As the saying goes, "I don't want to belong to any club that will accept me as a member." Chicago suffers from some of this at top privates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am sure a lot of students get a great education at Chicago and would encourage my kids to apply early if they wanted to go. But overall, do I think their strategy of taking most applicants ED is good for society or consistent with the obligations of a tax-exempt institution? No I do not. It is clearly a way of gaming the US News rankings. But again, don't hate the player, hate the game. My real ire is directed at US News.

Why? You can choose not to look at the US News ranking. It's a magazine, why giving it any credibility?

I have not looked at the US News rankings in about a decade but I know colleges care about their rankings and the way they rank on other lists and that can impact who gets accepted so it impacts my kids whether or not we ever look at the lists.

This is why you are wrong. The admissions data do not affect the US News ranking. Chicago is actually quite innovative with their admissions innovations, and many schools are following its model. That's pretty impressive.