is being a lawyer losing its appeal compared to tech or finance for high achieving students?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lawyer here and I would say yes.

First off there's just a ton of $ in tech, startups, the opportunity to make it really big.

Beyond that, the "elite" fields for lawyers (appellate advocacy, govt policy, etc) are just feeling very pointless. The Supreme Court is just making up whatever it wants (abortion was a constitutionally protected right for 25 yrs and now it's not?) and it's clear the exec branch can do whatever it wants as well. The whole "nation of laws" thing is feeling like a big depressing eyeroll in these circles.

Generational, life changing money. Big law partners retire well but it’s not setup to make
Your grandchildren rich and protected from a life of toil and pain (basically the life of a big law attorney). Joining a successful start up or ten years at FAANG can get you there.

Disagree on this one, though I guess it depends on the firm. Biglaw partners at top firms are retiring with $50-100 million net worths. That's generational wealth. heck, I'd consider even half of that lower number to be generational wealth, and that's very attainable for even the non-rainmakers.

50mm at a safe 3% withdrawal rates get you 1.5mm a year, hardly enough to justify a mortgage on a 6mm house. Definitely not enough to reasonably have 3+ homes (year-round residence, ski house, summer house). If you have 3-4 kids and they have multiple children then it gets divided up into a normal, boat-owning middle-class life on the west coast of FL.

Fair enough. I guess different definitions of generational wealth. Lol. I consider inheritance of $50-100 million to be "protected from a life of toil and pain" but maybe toil and pain mean different things to different people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lawyer here and I would say yes.

First off there's just a ton of $ in tech, startups, the opportunity to make it really big.

Beyond that, the "elite" fields for lawyers (appellate advocacy, govt policy, etc) are just feeling very pointless. The Supreme Court is just making up whatever it wants (abortion was a constitutionally protected right for 25 yrs and now it's not?) and it's clear the exec branch can do whatever it wants as well. The whole "nation of laws" thing is feeling like a big depressing eyeroll in these circles.

Generational, life changing money. Big law partners retire well but it’s not setup to make
Your grandchildren rich and protected from a life of toil and pain (basically the life of a big law attorney). Joining a successful start up or ten years at FAANG can get you there.

10 years at FAANG is no longer getting you generational or life changing money. The stock prices are too high to start...I mean, if you join Amazon today, realistically how much will your stock be worth in 10 years...maybe 2-3x higher if you are lucky? You would have to rise meteorically through the ranks to become one of the top 50 execs in the company to earn life changing money. The early employees at these companies literally saw like 10000% returns on their options which you can only get by picking the next Google while it's still just a small company.

Also, some BigLaw partners are getting some fairly eye-popping paydays. Here is from a recent NY Times article:

This is pushing up lawyers’ pay across the industry, including at some of Wall Street’s most prestigious firms, such as Kirkland & Ellis; Simpson Thacher & Bartlett; Davis Polk; Latham & Watkins; and Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison. Lawyers with close ties to private equity increasingly enjoy pay and prestige similar to those of star lawyers who represent America’s blue-chip companies and advise them on high-profile mergers, takeover battles and litigation.

Numerous people compared it to a star-centric system like the N.B.A., but others worried that higher and higher pay had gotten out of hand and could strain the law firms forced to stretch their budgets to keep talent from leaving.

“Twenty million dollars is the new $10 million,” said Sabina Lippman, a partner and co-founder of the legal recruiter Lippman Jungers. In the past few years, at least 10 law firms have spent — or acknowledged to Ms. Lippman that they need to spend — around $20 million a year or more to lure the highest-profile lawyers.

Last year, six partners at Kirkland, including some who were recruited during the year, each made at least $25 million, according to people with knowledge of the arrangements who weren’t authorized to discuss pay publicly. Several others in its London office made around $20 million.

No one at UGA law is getting that money. You are better off going into banking and asset management if you want those payouts. Those lawyers are wider outliers than their counterparts in PE/HFs.

Georgia resident and lawyer. No, most UGA law grads are not making that kind of money because it’s a different market down here, except for pockets of BiGLaw in Atlanta. UGA is a great law school and most of the UGA grads I know are doing quite well and are very comfortable. Not a bad life at all.

Thanks for shilling the attorney life, a profession with worse career satisfaction and higher divorce and alcoholism rates than dentistry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lawyer here and I would say yes.

First off there's just a ton of $ in tech, startups, the opportunity to make it really big.

Beyond that, the "elite" fields for lawyers (appellate advocacy, govt policy, etc) are just feeling very pointless. The Supreme Court is just making up whatever it wants (abortion was a constitutionally protected right for 25 yrs and now it's not?) and it's clear the exec branch can do whatever it wants as well. The whole "nation of laws" thing is feeling like a big depressing eyeroll in these circles.

Generational, life changing money. Big law partners retire well but it’s not setup to make
Your grandchildren rich and protected from a life of toil and pain (basically the life of a big law attorney). Joining a successful start up or ten years at FAANG can get you there.

Disagree on this one, though I guess it depends on the firm. Biglaw partners at top firms are retiring with $50-100 million net worths. That's generational wealth. heck, I'd consider even half of that lower number to be generational wealth, and that's very attainable for even the non-rainmakers.

50mm at a safe 3% withdrawal rates get you 1.5mm a year, hardly enough to justify a mortgage on a 6mm house. Definitely not enough to reasonably have 3+ homes (year-round residence, ski house, summer house). If you have 3-4 kids and they have multiple children then it gets divided up into a normal, boat-owning middle-class life on the west coast of FL.

Fair enough. I guess different definitions of generational wealth. Lol. I consider inheritance of $50-100 million to be "protected from a life of toil and pain" but maybe toil and pain mean different things to different people.

The scenario involved multiple kids, which most big law partners want.

Being a child of a big law attorney is fine. Beats being the big law attorney!

[Anonymous]

Probably important to consider how you become BigLaw equity partner if you want that $$$. Likely starts with high LSAT score and GPA, then top grades at law school, then presentable enough to get hired (or know someone), but what about after that? Everyone is smart at that point, but what does it take to get to equity partner, when you have convinced the others that firm profits should be shared with you, potentially watering down their own shares? Can you do that? Will you do that? What qualities do you add to the firm? Why should you get a piece of the pie rather than increase their profits?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Probably important to consider how you become BigLaw equity partner if you want that $$$. Likely starts with high LSAT score and GPA, then top grades at law school, then presentable enough to get hired (or know someone), but what about after that? Everyone is smart at that point, but what does it take to get to equity partner, when you have convinced the others that firm profits should be shared with you, potentially watering down their own shares? Can you do that? Will you do that? What qualities do you add to the firm? Why should you get a piece of the pie rather than increase their profits?

Answers to would be attorneys: you can’t do that. You won’t do that. You add no unique qualities. You should only get a piece of the pie when a relationship partner dies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I did well in biglaw. Son is attending now. Entering Law, is, still the best upward mobility vehicle I know of aside from med school, which takes much longer. After clerking, he'll enter DC or New York firms making $246K or better. Yes, he knows how mindboggling boring it can be. He's heard it from me and all of my friends. Itis what it is. But it will get him set financially for life and after being an associate, he can find a better path should he want it. There are many other things that law graduates can do. Many

Only true if you get into T14. Otherwise you won’t even get an interview at most biglaw firms.

I can’t necessarily refute but I can anecdote and it seems that decent law schools in good legal markets are also strong feeders to BigLaw.

Know a girl at Fordham with offers from Latham and another big firm and she isn’t top of the class or law review or whatever. She says many in her class are also getting good offers.

Now, I doubt she would have many options if she wanted to go to SV, but it seems recruiting is strong in NYC.

Are any of you lawyers? Biglaw is churn and burn for most associates. They do not want you to stay. They do not want you to learn any truly valuable skills that you could take elsewhere. They want you to bill time and make them wealthy.

Stop obsessing over biglaw and the right lawschools. It is far more lucrative *long term* to find a smaller to medium sized practice where you will be more hands on and learn to rain make. If you can do that, you can walk in many other places, including biglaw as a partner.

This is true, but starting off in biglaw isn't all bad. I come from a T14 law school and nearly everyone I know went to biglaw at first (or clerked and then biglaw). Most didn't stay, including me. But I'm glad I had that experience. Paid off my loans for one. And got some excellent training. Now I'm happily in tinylaw.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Probably important to consider how you become BigLaw equity partner if you want that $$$. Likely starts with high LSAT score and GPA, then top grades at law school, then presentable enough to get hired (or know someone), but what about after that? Everyone is smart at that point, but what does it take to get to equity partner, when you have convinced the others that firm profits should be shared with you, potentially watering down their own shares? Can you do that? Will you do that? What qualities do you add to the firm? Why should you get a piece of the pie rather than increase their profits?

Very few people who start at biglaw get to equity partner. Part of is is skill, hard work, people skills, etc. But part of it is also luck. Whether you can develop (or inherit) a book of business. And also more than you know is based on internal firm factors that are totally out of your control.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Big law wife here. DH busted his ass and we sacrificed early on, but it has paid huge dividends. There was no shortcut and I’m extremely proud of how hard he has worked to provide for our family.

You mean HE sacrificed. What did you do?

you've never heard the term law firm widow? she basically raised the kids by herself and handled everything. i remember the year my husband (big firm partner) was away for 6 months straight (home just on weekends) and started referring to his corporate apartment in another state as "home" and his trek from said apartment to the client site as "my commute." My kids were preschoolers and toddlers. I was basically a single parent.