Early decision seems like a scam

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's literally a scam in an anti-trust way:

https://www.highereddive.com/news/32-colleges-accused-of-using-early-decision-to-drive-up-costs/757337/

It's affirmative action for the rich. Students who have to compare aid packages or have parents who didn't go to college (and know about ED) are at a big disadvantage for ED.

I get the desire to compare aid packages, but ED accounts for that. If you have a true first choice and want to ED there, you will know the aid package at your true first choice in time to know whether or not you can afford to go there. If you can't -- i.e., the first choice school admits you, but does not meet your demonstrated need -- then you can apply everywhere else and compare those aid packages. If you don't have a true first choice, and the lowest bidder is your real goal, then ED is not a good option for you. It's an option that could result in a school that meets your demonstrated need, but it's not an option if you want more than your demonstrated need. That isn't a scam; it a choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's literally a scam in an anti-trust way:

https://www.highereddive.com/news/32-colleges-accused-of-using-early-decision-to-drive-up-costs/757337/

Zero chance of this suit succeeding.

+1 ED does nto 'reduce competition" -- they are absolutely competing with each other to get those ED applicants just as much as they are competing to get the strongest RD applicants. And the argument that they use ED to reduce FA makes zero sense, since you can get out of ED if they fail to meet your FA needs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's literally a scam in an anti-trust way:

https://www.highereddive.com/news/32-colleges-accused-of-using-early-decision-to-drive-up-costs/757337/

It's affirmative action for the rich. Students who have to compare aid packages or have parents who didn't go to college (and know about ED) are at a big disadvantage for ED.

I get the desire to compare aid packages, but ED accounts for that. If you have a true first choice and want to ED there, you will know the aid package at your true first choice in time to know whether or not you can afford to go there. If you can't -- i.e., the first choice school admits you, but does not meet your demonstrated need -- then you can apply everywhere else and compare those aid packages. If you don't have a true first choice, and the lowest bidder is your real goal, then ED is not a good option for you. It's an option that could result in a school that meets your demonstrated need, but it's not an option if you want more than your demonstrated need. That isn't a scam; it a choice.

Right, like the person you’re replying to said: ED is a special perk for the rich.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not a scam at all. My child is not applying ED. We weighed the choices, and decided we want to keep options open and select a school with price tag in mind.

See how that works? The power is in the hands of the consumer. We have a plethora of choices. We weigh decisions with readily available information in hand.

It’s really the opposite of a scam.

It puts your kid a a disadvantage if you do early decision or if you don’t. Just look at the numbers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's literally a scam in an anti-trust way:

https://www.highereddive.com/news/32-colleges-accused-of-using-early-decision-to-drive-up-costs/757337/

Zero chance of this suit succeeding.

+1 ED does nto 'reduce competition" -- they are absolutely competing with each other to get those ED applicants just as much as they are competing to get the strongest RD applicants. And the argument that they use ED to reduce FA makes zero sense, since you can get out of ED if they fail to meet your FA needs.

Of course ED prevents colleges from needing to compete on price, and reduces the amount of FA they give.

Here’s how FA works:
_ Every college gives you a different aid package.
_ If your favorite school is not the best price, you show them the better offer you got from a similar school.
_ If they want you, they match the price.

ED takes away your ability to secure competing offers, and thus your ability to bargain.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's literally a scam in an anti-trust way:

https://www.highereddive.com/news/32-colleges-accused-of-using-early-decision-to-drive-up-costs/757337/

Zero chance of this suit succeeding.

+1 ED does nto 'reduce competition" -- they are absolutely competing with each other to get those ED applicants just as much as they are competing to get the strongest RD applicants. And the argument that they use ED to reduce FA makes zero sense, since you can get out of ED if they fail to meet your FA needs.

Of course ED prevents colleges from needing to compete on price, and reduces the amount of FA they give.

Here’s how FA works:
_ Every college gives you a different aid package.
_ If your favorite school is not the best price, you show them the better offer you got from a similar school.
_ If they want you, they match the price.

ED takes away your ability to secure competing offers, and thus your ability to bargain.

I've never heard of a school matching a competing offer, unless it's close to begin with. They might boost the award, but it's usually not by much. You can compare financial aid packages with each school's NPC and research the amount of merit (if any) they normally give to kids with similar stats. If you don't get within the ballpark of the expected offer, you can break the ED contract. This is for more selective schools. Less selective schools might be more flexible, in which case it's probably a good idea not to ED anywhere and chase merit instead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ED is for colleges, recruited athletes, and suckers.

And for kids who know exactly what they want.

+1
Every school should have ED so there is no doubt about who will actually enroll if accepted. This would save SO MUCH time and effort on both the students' and the colleges' part.

Except it makes it impossible to comparison shop based on merit aid. If it were up to me colleges wouldn’t be able to have binding ED and maintain their nonprofit status. I say this as someone who can afford the full cost of a private university for my kids so they’ll likely benefit from ED.

But nobody is entitled to merit aid. ED matches and the resulting probable guaranteed tuition revenue allows the schools to offer more merit etc later. I think those who are put off by ED are people who try to use ED to game the system themselves like EDing at a high reach or to allay self-imposed anxiety by having a sure thing in the fall rather than a range of choices in the spring. That was not the purpose of ED.

Maybe I just have a different perspective because it worked out well for my dc. He EDed to basically a target school and it was his first choice by far and we could pay. Boom done.

And? How is that relevant?

The point is that candidates who may otherwise be admitted cannot try because ED'ing means taking the risk of committing to a school they can't afford.

No one is entitled to admission, either.

NPCs are accurate and you can back out if the offer is less than suggested by the NPC. Nobody should be surprised by the cost when applying ED.

NCs are not always accurate and in any case, you can't back out because you didn't get the merit aid you need in order to attend.

Yes you can.

No, you can't. If you don't get the expected FA, then yes, you can't back out.* But if you don't apply for FA but need merit aid, and don't get it? You are stuck.

I see, well then don't apply.

That's right.

Affirmative action for the rich.

*should say, "If you don't get the expected FA, then yes, you can back out.

The school is going to accept a certain number of full pay students no matter when they apply. Their budgets rely on it.

Absolutely correct. The full pays in effect subsidize those who are not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ED is for colleges, recruited athletes, and suckers.

And for kids who know exactly what they want.

+1
Every school should have ED so there is no doubt about who will actually enroll if accepted. This would save SO MUCH time and effort on both the students' and the colleges' part.

Except it makes it impossible to comparison shop based on merit aid. If it were up to me colleges wouldn’t be able to have binding ED and maintain their nonprofit status. I say this as someone who can afford the full cost of a private university for my kids so they’ll likely benefit from ED.

But nobody is entitled to merit aid. ED matches and the resulting probable guaranteed tuition revenue allows the schools to offer more merit etc later. I think those who are put off by ED are people who try to use ED to game the system themselves like EDing at a high reach or to allay self-imposed anxiety by having a sure thing in the fall rather than a range of choices in the spring. That was not the purpose of ED.

Maybe I just have a different perspective because it worked out well for my dc. He EDed to basically a target school and it was his first choice by far and we could pay. Boom done.

And? How is that relevant?

The point is that candidates who may otherwise be admitted cannot try because ED'ing means taking the risk of committing to a school they can't afford.

No one is entitled to admission, either.

NPCs are accurate and you can back out if the offer is less than suggested by the NPC. Nobody should be surprised by the cost when applying ED.

NCs are not always accurate and in any case, you can't back out because you didn't get the merit aid you need in order to attend.

Yes you can.

No, you can't. If you don't get the expected FA, then yes, you can't back out.* But if you don't apply for FA but need merit aid, and don't get it? You are stuck.

I see, well then don't apply.

That's right.

Affirmative action for the rich.

*should say, "If you don't get the expected FA, then yes, you can back out.

The school is going to accept a certain number of full pay students no matter when they apply. Their budgets rely on it.

Absolutely correct. The full pays in effect subsidize those who are not.

Subsidize? This is false. FA comes from endowment, not from your full pay tuition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ED is for colleges, recruited athletes, and suckers.

And for kids who know exactly what they want.

+1
Every school should have ED so there is no doubt about who will actually enroll if accepted. This would save SO MUCH time and effort on both the students' and the colleges' part.

Except it makes it impossible to comparison shop based on merit aid. If it were up to me colleges wouldn’t be able to have binding ED and maintain their nonprofit status. I say this as someone who can afford the full cost of a private university for my kids so they’ll likely benefit from ED.

Why not?!?!?! If ED isn't for you, then you simply apply EA/RD. Like literally 85% of those applying to college do. You are not ready to commit, so ED is not for you. Hint: if a school is not affordable ED, it's not affordable in EA/RD either. So what you are really saying is "we cannot really afford this, UNLESS my kid doesn't get into anything decent that gives a lot more money. But if they dont' then we will find a way to pay". So you can "afford it" you just want choices. And that is what RD/EA is for

Where on earth do you get that?

Some families- most actually - have a hard ceiling for how much they can afford to pay for college. True fact.

I get that.

But applying ED versus RD does not change how much merit or financial aid the school will give you. So if you cannot afford to attend the college if you get in Ed, nothing changes for RD. Unfortunately you still cannot afford to attend. So it is not a school for you.
Everyone can run the NPC and decide from there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ED is for colleges, recruited athletes, and suckers.

And for kids who know exactly what they want.

+1
Every school should have ED so there is no doubt about who will actually enroll if accepted. This would save SO MUCH time and effort on both the students' and the colleges' part.

Except it makes it impossible to comparison shop based on merit aid. If it were up to me colleges wouldn’t be able to have binding ED and maintain their nonprofit status. I say this as someone who can afford the full cost of a private university for my kids so they’ll likely benefit from ED.

But nobody is entitled to merit aid. ED matches and the resulting probable guaranteed tuition revenue allows the schools to offer more merit etc later. I think those who are put off by ED are people who try to use ED to game the system themselves like EDing at a high reach or to allay self-imposed anxiety by having a sure thing in the fall rather than a range of choices in the spring. That was not the purpose of ED.

Maybe I just have a different perspective because it worked out well for my dc. He EDed to basically a target school and it was his first choice by far and we could pay. Boom done.

And? How is that relevant?

The point is that candidates who may otherwise be admitted cannot try because ED'ing means taking the risk of committing to a school they can't afford.

No one is entitled to admission, either.

NPCs are accurate and you can back out if the offer is less than suggested by the NPC. Nobody should be surprised by the cost when applying ED.

NCs are not always accurate and in any case, you can't back out because you didn't get the merit aid you need in order to attend.

Yes you can.

No, you can't. If you don't get the expected FA, then yes, you can't back out. But if you don't apply for FA but need merit aid, and don't get it? You are stuck.

And the vast majority of schools where add matters do NoT give merit aide. So unfortunately it's likely not somewhere you can afford

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's literally a scam in an anti-trust way:

https://www.highereddive.com/news/32-colleges-accused-of-using-early-decision-to-drive-up-costs/757337/

It's affirmative action for the rich. Students who have to compare aid packages or have parents who didn't go to college (and know about ED) are at a big disadvantage for ED.

As with most things in life, your life is easier for some who come from families that can help them. But all hs counselors are aware of ED. Also if you need to compare merit aide, well then Ed is not for you. Just like if you need to get a good salmon a house, buying one with a bidding war going is not for you. Or owning a 60k car is not for you if you can only afford 30k.

But you can run the aid package for a college and back out if I you don't get what the npc stated. It will be the same for Ed as rd. However if what you want is to compare multiple colleges well that is what ea/rd is for. But if you can afford x thousand per year and college Y's NPC says you will get x or more you can apply.
However no university is required to be affordable for you. There are literally 1000s that will be just not all

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's literally a scam in an anti-trust way:

https://www.highereddive.com/news/32-colleges-accused-of-using-early-decision-to-drive-up-costs/757337/

It's affirmative action for the rich. Students who have to compare aid packages or have parents who didn't go to college (and know about ED) are at a big disadvantage for ED.

I get the desire to compare aid packages, but ED accounts for that. If you have a true first choice and want to ED there, you will know the aid package at your true first choice in time to know whether or not you can afford to go there. If you can't -- i.e., the first choice school admits you, but does not meet your demonstrated need -- then you can apply everywhere else and compare those aid packages. If you don't have a true first choice, and the lowest bidder is your real goal, then ED is not a good option for you. It's an option that could result in a school that meets your demonstrated need, but it's not an option if you want more than your demonstrated need. That isn't a scam; it a choice.

bINGO!!! If you want to compare offers then Ed is not for you. So don't do it. But you have the choice to do it if you are willing to follow the requirements.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's literally a scam in an anti-trust way:

https://www.highereddive.com/news/32-colleges-accused-of-using-early-decision-to-drive-up-costs/757337/

It's affirmative action for the rich. Students who have to compare aid packages or have parents who didn't go to college (and know about ED) are at a big disadvantage for ED.

I get the desire to compare aid packages, but ED accounts for that. If you have a true first choice and want to ED there, you will know the aid package at your true first choice in time to know whether or not you can afford to go there. If you can't -- i.e., the first choice school admits you, but does not meet your demonstrated need -- then you can apply everywhere else and compare those aid packages. If you don't have a true first choice, and the lowest bidder is your real goal, then ED is not a good option for you. It's an option that could result in a school that meets your demonstrated need, but it's not an option if you want more than your demonstrated need. That isn't a scam; it a choice.

Right, like the person you’re replying to said: ED is a special perk for the rich.

no, ED is a perk for someone who has a true first choice and is willing to accept the aid package provided by the university.

Simple as that. I

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's literally a scam in an anti-trust way:

https://www.highereddive.com/news/32-colleges-accused-of-using-early-decision-to-drive-up-costs/757337/

Zero chance of this suit succeeding.

+1 ED does nto 'reduce competition" -- they are absolutely competing with each other to get those ED applicants just as much as they are competing to get the strongest RD applicants. And the argument that they use ED to reduce FA makes zero sense, since you can get out of ED if they fail to meet your FA needs.

Of course ED prevents colleges from needing to compete on price, and reduces the amount of FA they give.

Here’s how FA works:
_ Every college gives you a different aid package.
_ If your favorite school is not the best price, you show them the better offer you got from a similar school.
_ If they want you, they match the price.

ED takes away your ability to secure competing offers, and thus your ability to bargain.

And at most schools where Ed matters, there is no negotiating aid packages. They have tons of kids willing to accept what they offer

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's literally a scam in an anti-trust way:

https://www.highereddive.com/news/32-colleges-accused-of-using-early-decision-to-drive-up-costs/757337/

Zero chance of this suit succeeding.

+1 ED does nto 'reduce competition" -- they are absolutely competing with each other to get those ED applicants just as much as they are competing to get the strongest RD applicants. And the argument that they use ED to reduce FA makes zero sense, since you can get out of ED if they fail to meet your FA needs.

Of course ED prevents colleges from needing to compete on price, and reduces the amount of FA they give.

Here’s how FA works:
_ Every college gives you a different aid package.
_ If your favorite school is not the best price, you show them the better offer you got from a similar school.
_ If they want you, they match the price.

ED takes away your ability to secure competing offers, and thus your ability to bargain.

And at most schools where Ed matters, there is no negotiating aid packages. They have tons of kids willing to accept what they offer

+1 But it's not always a bad thing. I spent a lot of time on different college NPCs. None of these colleges offer merit only need-based aid. Some NPCs indicated no aid, but others did. DC ED'd to one on the list that did, and our financial aid package (a little more than 20K) matched the NPC. Classic donut hole family, so this was the best offer we could expect without chasing merit. We were very happy with how ED worked out.