FCPS High School prestige ranking

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I think has to do a lot more some people trying to avoid schools with high FARMS and URM rates. This, of course, happens all over the US, and not surprisingly, in many countries in the Americas and Europe.

Right. South Lakes is mostly affluent and white, but it has more low income students than Lake Braddock for example, so it is perceived to be inferior.

South lakes is inferior because of IB.

"Inferior" according to the DCUMers who have an irrational hatred of IB.

Not inferior according to the UVA and W&M admissions officers who love IB students.

They might love IB Diploma students, but the rest (majority) don't get much love. "Hatred" is the wrong term. Most of us under the reality that IB is problematic.

IB as it's currently offered in FCPS doesn't pass a cost-benefit test.

And the general assumption is that, if a school has IB, it must have been a school that FCPS decided was in trouble at some point.

Re FCPS, there were exceptions like Woodson and Robinson. (Woodson parents then pushed back vehemently and saved AP there.) IB was a 1970s through 00s fad for expanding college prep options across the nation.

But it was also a way to completely restructure the curriculum at schools then perceived to be in dire need of help to boost enrollment, test scores, etc. That gamble paid off dividends for Marshall.

Marshall's IB program is not very successful, if you look at the number of diplomas awarded.

Marshall is much smaller than Robinson, but it’s true Robinson’s program is more successful. For 2023-24 school year, it looks like 13% of Marshall seniors got an IB diploma while 17% got one at Robinson. Annandale was the only other school to crack 10%. All other IB schools have less than 10% of students achieving an IB diploma.

I know a lot of highly motivated and successful Marshall kids who just decided to skip the diploma because the requirements limit types of electives, etc esp. during Junior and Senior years. Marshall has academy classes in CS, engineering, etc that are more appealing to some STEM students. Getting a diploma doesn’t necessarily mean better college acceptance results but the IB writing really helps prepare students for college.

The AP writing courses also really help to prepare students for college.

IB is not some magic formula for critical thinking and writing skills. That claim is just marketing.

Writing skills are developed by… writing.

It’s not “marketing” to say you do more writing in IB than AP.

Ergo IB is better preparation for college writing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think has to do a lot more some people trying to avoid schools with high FARMS and URM rates. This, of course, happens all over the US, and not surprisingly, in many countries in the Americas and Europe.

Right. South Lakes is mostly affluent and white, but it has more low income students than Lake Braddock for example, so it is perceived to be inferior.

South lakes is inferior because of IB.

"Inferior" according to the DCUMers who have an irrational hatred of IB.

Not inferior according to the UVA and W&M admissions officers who love IB students.

I read a thread on Reddit once where professors ranked IB students as the most well prepared (compared to AP and DE students). It made me think of DCUM. I think the rabid IB hatred is actually mostly in FCPS forum and mostly the same 1-2 posters (who will *always* bring up IB and how FCPS should scrap it in threads not even related to IB). You go to the college forum and parents of IB students seem pretty content with IB.

It’s really sad you’re citing some random Reddit thread for validation of IB. It’s had decades in FCPS to raise the profiles of certain schools and never achieved that result.

[Anonymous]

I'm sure IB is a great program. However, it is not the right program for FCPS. There are too many reasons to get rid of it:

Expense
Transfer excuse
Inflexibility
Parent preference

[Anonymous]

IB is nothing more than irritable bowel

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are some neighborhoods that are highly opposed to moving from Chantilly to Oakton. I wouldn’t be surprised if Chantilly moves to the top given how sought after it has become.

Are you joking? Chantilly is full of mediocre white kids with nicotine addictions and no futures. Oakton is a way better school in every way.

[Anonymous]

Students can take the standard courses, including advanced courses, at all schools across Fairfax County. Students have more opportunities for participation in sports and leadership in the "less prestigious" schools.

So in terms of building a solid resume for college applications, students can have more opportunities at a school such as Chantilly or Mount Vernon, than a highly competitive school like Oakton.

It depends on how you view the high school experience. Does your kid need to be surrounded other high achieving kids to pass geometry? Then go to a school that has overall higher test scores. Does your kid want to step into leadership positions as a sophomore rather than waiting for senior year to undergo the Hunger Games, with the one left alive as the next marching band drum major? There are options for that too!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Students can take the standard courses, including advanced courses, at all schools across Fairfax County. Students have more opportunities for participation in sports and leadership in the "less prestigious" schools.

So in terms of building a solid resume for college applications, students can have more opportunities at a school such as Chantilly or Mount Vernon, than a highly competitive school like Oakton.

It depends on how you view the high school experience. Does your kid need to be surrounded other high achieving kids to pass geometry? Then go to a school that has overall higher test scores. Does your kid want to step into leadership positions as a sophomore rather than waiting for senior year to undergo the Hunger Games, with the one left alive as the next marching band drum major? There are options for that too!

Dumb post. Chantilly is more competitive than Oakton, not less. And not all schools have the same advanced courses, or the same extra-curricular opportunities. Besides that, no one is going to care if you're the head of some random student club at a low-performing school as a sophomore. Oakton college admissions blow away Mount Vernon every year, as you'd expect.

[Anonymous]

Latest College Board report - 2023-24 mean SAT scores:

TJ 1518

Langley 1302

McLean 1270
Chantilly 1239
Oakton 1236
Woodson 1229
Madison 1221
Marshall 1210

Lake Braddock 1185
Westfield 1161
Centreville 1159
South Lakes 1158
Robinson 1156
Fairfax 1150
West Springfield 1147

Herndon 1124
South County 1115
West Potomac 1103
Edison 1098
Justice 1088
Hayfield 1084
Falls Church 1041
Annandale 1026

Mount Vernon 1005
Lewis 1002

This grouping suggests six tiers. Review them and see if you agree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are some neighborhoods that are highly opposed to moving from Chantilly to Oakton. I wouldn’t be surprised if Chantilly moves to the top given how sought after it has become.

Are you joking? Chantilly is full of mediocre white kids with nicotine addictions and no futures. Oakton is a way better school in every way.

I think you're many years out of touch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Latest College Board report - 2023-24 mean SAT scores:

TJ 1518

Langley 1302

McLean 1270
Chantilly 1239
Oakton 1236
Woodson 1229
Madison 1221
Marshall 1210

Lake Braddock 1185
Westfield 1161
Centreville 1159
South Lakes 1158
Robinson 1156
Fairfax 1150
West Springfield 1147

Herndon 1124
South County 1115
West Potomac 1103
Edison 1098
Justice 1088
Hayfield 1084
Falls Church 1041
Annandale 1026

Mount Vernon 1005
Lewis 1002

This grouping suggests six tiers. Review them and see if you agree.

Test scores are designed to be on a bell curve so it may be more appropriate to use average (1161.08) and standard deviation (109.3) for grouping. A better grouping based on such would be:

Above average beyond 2 standard deviations:
TJ 1518

Above average within 2 standard deviations:
Langley 1302

Above average within 1 standard deviation:
McLean 1270
Chantilly 1239
Oakton 1236
Woodson 1229
Madison 1221
Marshall 1210
Lake Braddock 1185

Center:
Westfield 1161 (average is 1161.08)

Below average within 1 standard deviation:
Centreville 1159
South Lakes 1158
Robinson 1156
Fairfax 1150
West Springfield 1147
Herndon 1124
South County 1115
West Potomac 1103
Edison 1098
Justice 1088
Hayfield 1084

Below average within 2 standard deviations:
Falls Church 1041
Annandale 1026
Mount Vernon 1005
Lewis 1002

TJ really sets itself apart, the rest fit a typical normal bell curve.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think has to do a lot more some people trying to avoid schools with high FARMS and URM rates. This, of course, happens all over the US, and not surprisingly, in many countries in the Americas and Europe.

Right. South Lakes is mostly affluent and white, but it has more low income students than Lake Braddock for example, so it is perceived to be inferior.

South lakes is inferior because of IB.

"Inferior" according to the DCUMers who have an irrational hatred of IB.

Not inferior according to the UVA and W&M admissions officers who love IB students.

They might love IB Diploma students, but the rest (majority) don't get much love. "Hatred" is the wrong term. Most of us under the reality that IB is problematic.

IB as it's currently offered in FCPS doesn't pass a cost-benefit test.

And the general assumption is that, if a school has IB, it must have been a school that FCPS decided was in trouble at some point.

Re FCPS, there were exceptions like Woodson and Robinson. (Woodson parents then pushed back vehemently and saved AP there.) IB was a 1970s through 00s fad for expanding college prep options across the nation.

But it was also a way to completely restructure the curriculum at schools then perceived to be in dire need of help to boost enrollment, test scores, etc. That gamble paid off dividends for Marshall.

Marshall's IB program is not very successful, if you look at the number of diplomas awarded.

Marshall is much smaller than Robinson, but it’s true Robinson’s program is more successful. For 2023-24 school year, it looks like 13% of Marshall seniors got an IB diploma while 17% got one at Robinson. Annandale was the only other school to crack 10%. All other IB schools have less than 10% of students achieving an IB diploma.

I know a lot of highly motivated and successful Marshall kids who just decided to skip the diploma because the requirements limit types of electives, etc esp. during Junior and Senior years. Marshall has academy classes in CS, engineering, etc that are more appealing to some STEM students. Getting a diploma doesn’t necessarily mean better college acceptance results but the IB writing really helps prepare students for college.

The AP writing courses also really help to prepare students for college.

IB is not some magic formula for critical thinking and writing skills. That claim is just marketing.

Writing skills are developed by… writing.

It’s not “marketing” to say you do more writing in IB than AP.

Ergo IB is better preparation for college writing.

Students write daily in the AP English and history courses...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Latest College Board report - 2023-24 mean SAT scores:

TJ 1518

Langley 1302

McLean 1270
Chantilly 1239
Oakton 1236
Woodson 1229
Madison 1221
Marshall 1210

Lake Braddock 1185
Westfield 1161
Centreville 1159
South Lakes 1158
Robinson 1156
Fairfax 1150
West Springfield 1147

Herndon 1124
South County 1115
West Potomac 1103
Edison 1098
Justice 1088
Hayfield 1084
Falls Church 1041
Annandale 1026

Mount Vernon 1005
Lewis 1002

This grouping suggests six tiers. Review them and see if you agree.

To make this more meaningful, one should have additional datapoints to analyze.

For instance, schools like Annandale and Lewis have high rates of English learners compared to to schools like West Springfield. If this is comparing native speakers to those who've learned a second language, I'd be more impressed with the Lewis score.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Latest College Board report - 2023-24 mean SAT scores:

TJ 1518

Langley 1302

McLean 1270
Chantilly 1239
Oakton 1236
Woodson 1229
Madison 1221
Marshall 1210

Lake Braddock 1185
Westfield 1161
Centreville 1159
South Lakes 1158
Robinson 1156
Fairfax 1150
West Springfield 1147

Herndon 1124
South County 1115
West Potomac 1103
Edison 1098
Justice 1088
Hayfield 1084
Falls Church 1041
Annandale 1026

Mount Vernon 1005
Lewis 1002

This grouping suggests six tiers. Review them and see if you agree.

Test scores are designed to be on a bell curve so it may be more appropriate to use average (1161.08) and standard deviation (109.3) for grouping. A better grouping based on such would be:

Above average beyond 2 standard deviations:
TJ 1518

Above average within 2 standard deviations:
Langley 1302

Above average within 1 standard deviation:
McLean 1270
Chantilly 1239
Oakton 1236
Woodson 1229
Madison 1221
Marshall 1210
Lake Braddock 1185

Center:
Westfield 1161 (average is 1161.08)

Below average within 1 standard deviation:
Centreville 1159
South Lakes 1158
Robinson 1156
Fairfax 1150
West Springfield 1147
Herndon 1124
South County 1115
West Potomac 1103
Edison 1098
Justice 1088
Hayfield 1084

Below average within 2 standard deviations:
Falls Church 1041
Annandale 1026
Mount Vernon 1005
Lewis 1002

TJ really sets itself apart, the rest fit a typical normal bell curve.

TJ just dropped 100 points but still above the others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Latest College Board report - 2023-24 mean SAT scores:

TJ 1518

Langley 1302

McLean 1270
Chantilly 1239
Oakton 1236
Woodson 1229
Madison 1221
Marshall 1210

Lake Braddock 1185
Westfield 1161
Centreville 1159
South Lakes 1158
Robinson 1156
Fairfax 1150
West Springfield 1147

Herndon 1124
South County 1115
West Potomac 1103
Edison 1098
Justice 1088
Hayfield 1084
Falls Church 1041
Annandale 1026

Mount Vernon 1005
Lewis 1002

This grouping suggests six tiers. Review them and see if you agree.

To make this more meaningful, one should have additional datapoints to analyze.

For instance, schools like Annandale and Lewis have high rates of English learners compared to to schools like West Springfield. If this is comparing native speakers to those who've learned a second language, I'd be more impressed with the Lewis score.

Yawn. No point in controlling for the things that detract from a school’s prestige.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Latest College Board report - 2023-24 mean SAT scores:

TJ 1518

Langley 1302

McLean 1270
Chantilly 1239
Oakton 1236
Woodson 1229
Madison 1221
Marshall 1210

Lake Braddock 1185
Westfield 1161
Centreville 1159
South Lakes 1158
Robinson 1156
Fairfax 1150
West Springfield 1147

Herndon 1124
South County 1115
West Potomac 1103
Edison 1098
Justice 1088
Hayfield 1084
Falls Church 1041
Annandale 1026

Mount Vernon 1005
Lewis 1002

This grouping suggests six tiers. Review them and see if you agree.

To make this more meaningful, one should have additional datapoints to analyze.

For instance, schools like Annandale and Lewis have high rates of English learners compared to to schools like West Springfield. If this is comparing native speakers to those who've learned a second language, I'd be more impressed with the Lewis score.

Agreed. DCUM loves to compare SAT scores but this is a pretty meaningless metric unless you control for SES and % of ESL students.