If your kid wants to go to a selective university, do not let them play sports in high school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not being middle class also kills your odds significantly. Top tier schools hate the middle class. They prefer their student bodies to consist mostly of wealthy elites with a few poor or hooked kids sprinkled in to give the appearance of "diversity"

So true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

There’s more to life than sacrificing your kid’s authenticity and interests to try to match the ever-changing whims of admissions committees.

Bolder would make a pretty good tag line for this website, tbh.

"pointy" kids are being used to create a well rounded class.
Hyper-focused on one or two activities where they achieve at the national level.
Almost regardless of what that activity is.
Concert level didgeridoo
Championship underwater hockey
As long as you are the best at it.

It is almost impossible that this many kids are authentically interested in the didgeridoo or underwater hockey.
It is not clear to me how having the best didgeridoo or underwater hockey player helps round out the class any better than a highly regarded but not best violinist or volleyball player but that is the algorithm.

Right now all the top colleges are re-evaluating their algorithms and they may decide they don't care about pointiness as much as they used to.

I remember when non-profits were on every college counselor's short list of contrived extracurriculars.
Now nobody does it because it seems so contrived.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe the kid the OP is referring wrote crappy essays.

Grade grubbing TJ student who couldn’t cut it and the parent needs something to blame.

A grade grubbing TJ student that was captain of the football and lacrosse teams?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We heard exactly the opposite from someone in college admissions - a kid at TJ with sports talent will have no problem in the admissions process.

This statement doesn’t make any sense. If the kid was a recruited athlete (ie “sports talent”), then everyone agrees that kid is probably high on the list for say MIT.

However, just playing a sport and being captain doesnt mean a kid at TJ has sports talent in the holistic sense…because TJ’s sports teams aren’t all that good for the most part.

Holistic admissions does not hold the strength of a student's school against them. Why wouldn't the same apply for athletics?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:🙄

There’s more to life than sacrificing your kid’s authenticity and interests to try to match the ever-changing whims of admissions committees.

Sure, if your kid doesn’t like sports, don’t force them to play one in an attempt to impress admissions. That’s silly and worthless. Same is true if they’re all-in on their instrument, musical theater, dance, or any other super time-consuming passion.

But if your kid loves sports (or the equivalent) and wants to pursue it in HS but not at a recruited level, there’s plenty of upside for them as a human being: authenticity, grit, leadership, social skills, physical health, mental health/wellness, and more.

All that said, if playing three varsity sports is what keeps our 4.0/1500+/12AP student out of the T-20, that’s fine with us. We’re thrilled to see our kid enjoy and excel at the EC’s they have chosen. It’s been wonderful for their growth, resilience, sense of self, and relationships with their peers, coaches, and teachers, alike.

IMHO that’s more important in the long run than dropping their authentic self in an attempt to make themself marginally more attractive to a school with an already tiny rate of admission. But you do you.

It is not a marginal boost. I don’t think that many parents realize here how much sports actively hurt your chances in admissions because of the time factor. Most college admissions advisors actively tell kids to give up on sports if they aren’t being recruited

This +1
or the non-recruited student athlete continues with their sport knowing that it will not be a boost in any way come college application time
it is the parents that seem the most delusional to me as they really think that playing on a travel team will move the needle in any way when it doesn't

There is no evidence for what you are saying though. Colleges look for students who aren’t just pulling in the grades. They want to see persistence and a time commitment. It doesn’t have to be sports, but suggesting sports aren’t a benefit on an application is ridiculous.

I completely agree. But applicants have to keep it in perspective at the same time. Their travel sport commitment that takes 16 hours a week is no better or worse than any other regular EC that may take the same time or just an hour or two.

Tell me what that “other regular EC” is and I’ll tell you if it’s better than travel sports. Not all “regular ECs” are equally impressive or as impressive as sports.

I think we are not agreeing on what it takes to have an impact on a college admissions application reader. It is not a matter of an EC being "impressive" or not. It is very much a matter of an EC making the applicant stand out from the pack - to seem different in some way. Playing a sport on any level, other than when being recruited, is as common as one can be. Hundreds of thousands of college applicants play sports, which is fine. But do not for a moment think it will help any stand out unless they are being recruited to play in college.

You can get the required 2 in the Harvard EC/Athletics rubric through sport but not recruited. You need to show real impact, i.e. starting and captain on a team that has real success but you absolutely do not need to be recruited. Somebody just taking up space and being a warm body is going to get the same success as someone in the robotics club who just attends. But a consistent starter/contributor over multiple years on a regionally successful level will have far more impact than the academic drones want to accept.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:🙄

There’s more to life than sacrificing your kid’s authenticity and interests to try to match the ever-changing whims of admissions committees.

Sure, if your kid doesn’t like sports, don’t force them to play one in an attempt to impress admissions. That’s silly and worthless. Same is true if they’re all-in on their instrument, musical theater, dance, or any other super time-consuming passion.

But if your kid loves sports (or the equivalent) and wants to pursue it in HS but not at a recruited level, there’s plenty of upside for them as a human being: authenticity, grit, leadership, social skills, physical health, mental health/wellness, and more.

All that said, if playing three varsity sports is what keeps our 4.0/1500+/12AP student out of the T-20, that’s fine with us. We’re thrilled to see our kid enjoy and excel at the EC’s they have chosen. It’s been wonderful for their growth, resilience, sense of self, and relationships with their peers, coaches, and teachers, alike.

IMHO that’s more important in the long run than dropping their authentic self in an attempt to make themself marginally more attractive to a school with an already tiny rate of admission. But you do you.

It is not a marginal boost. I don’t think that many parents realize here how much sports actively hurt your chances in admissions because of the time factor. Most college admissions advisors actively tell kids to give up on sports if they aren’t being recruited

This +1
or the non-recruited student athlete continues with their sport knowing that it will not be a boost in any way come college application time
it is the parents that seem the most delusional to me as they really think that playing on a travel team will move the needle in any way when it doesn't

There is no evidence for what you are saying though. Colleges look for students who aren’t just pulling in the grades. They want to see persistence and a time commitment. It doesn’t have to be sports, but suggesting sports aren’t a benefit on an application is ridiculous.

I completely agree. But applicants have to keep it in perspective at the same time. Their travel sport commitment that takes 16 hours a week is no better or worse than any other regular EC that may take the same time or just an hour or two.

Tell me what that “other regular EC” is and I’ll tell you if it’s better than travel sports. Not all “regular ECs” are equally impressive or as impressive as sports.

I think we are not agreeing on what it takes to have an impact on a college admissions application reader. It is not a matter of an EC being "impressive" or not. It is very much a matter of an EC making the applicant stand out from the pack - to seem different in some way. Playing a sport on any level, other than when being recruited, is as common as one can be. Hundreds of thousands of college applicants play sports, which is fine. But do not for a moment think it will help any stand out unless they are being recruited to play in college.

The number of kids who play varsity sports is small compared to the number of kids in high school and even the number of college applicants, so yes it does make you stand out.

No it’s not one of the insane “started a nonprofit to help disabled children in Tanzania” ECs but it’s not “common” either.

This statement is delusional. Just wait and see.
Playing a sport is incredible for kids on so many levels but it will not ever make an applicant stand out when applying to college (unless you are a recruited athlete).

You have no clue regarding what you are discussing. Please bow out, what you feel is not what is real.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Playing a sport as an EC is similar to listing National Honor Society. Everyone lists these. Good to list but nothing unique.

What? No. Low IQ take. NHS takes every warm body with a “good enough” gpa and a faculty sponsor. That’s nothing like having to make the team and go to practices and games.

Try to keep up. Not referring to skill set involved. Referring to activities that are so common that they do not allow your student to stand out among the piles of applicants.

Lol

Yours still playing the “stand out” game? Shoving your kid at fencing, chess, squash, AI / robotics, baton twirler, debutante stuff, goalie positions, poetry?

It’s all a wash. Frankly the team sport, social, super intelligent Renaissance Kid who doesn’t go postal at age 26 and shoot up some proxy target would be a good thing!

[Anonymous]

Bagpipes

[Anonymous]

Men’s gymnastics

[Anonymous]

Shakuhachi

[Anonymous]

Working in your parents medical lab. (Dime a dozen here at Blair and NHS)

[Anonymous]

Start a mental health club. Not a pop up 501c

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless your kid is recruited, admissions officers do not really care about sports. I know a kid who has perfect grades and a 35 ACT who was a captain of the varsity football and lacrosse teams (and was class treasurer, NHS president, volunteered, and did part time work), and he got rejected from every remotely selective college. The Ivy Leagues, Notre Dame, Michigan, Duke, Stanford, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, UNC, and UVA all rejected him. Many other kids who are two or three sports athletes have similarly bad results.

At most top schools, the students will tell you most people there did not play sports outside of the recruited athletes. Most of their extracurriculars were centered around the major they want to study. Sports are time consuming and take away time from these more impactful extracurriculars. For sports like basketball, baseball, or lacrosse, you are easily spending 20+ hours per week on an activity that ultimately won’t help you in admissions.

And it doesn’t help that in the DMV area, you have to be super talented or spend years playing a sport just to make into the JV team. You have to spend a ridiculous amount of money on sports. Sports are just a waste of time for most kids

lol
😂
Mine played division 1 lax and soccer

You are incredibly stupid

Neither of mine played travel
Neither of mine spent years playing their sport they both started in 8th grade.
Both are great students top academically

The OP is a clueless idiot but you are lying.

Why is he lying? There are plenty of students over this large country who began a sport in middle school and mastered it quickly.

For the level of play needed for D1 lacrosse starting in 8th grade would be very difficult.

But, no travel is the real clue. No travel means no exposure to top colleges coaches or to the level of play necessary to be recruited. When you combine that with the "we started late" comment the poster demonstrated that they really do not know how things work and thus T-that's how we know that the PP is lying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There’s more to life than sacrificing your kid’s authenticity and interests to try to match the ever-changing whims of admissions committees.

Bolder would make a pretty good tag line for this website, tbh.

"pointy" kids are being used to create a well rounded class.
Hyper-focused on one or two activities where they achieve at the national level.
Almost regardless of what that activity is.
Concert level didgeridoo
Championship underwater hockey
As long as you are the best at it.

It is almost impossible that this many kids are authentically interested in the didgeridoo or underwater hockey.
It is not clear to me how having the best didgeridoo or underwater hockey player helps round out the class any better than a highly regarded but not best violinist or volleyball player but that is the algorithm.

Right now all the top colleges are re-evaluating their algorithms and they may decide they don't care about pointiness as much as they used to.

I remember when non-profits were on every college counselor's short list of contrived extracurriculars.
Now nobody does it because it seems so contrived.

Nobody knows what selective colleges will be looking for in 4 years.
That includes the colleges themselves.

They don't know where to put the goalposts because they don't know where their target demographic is likely to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless your kid is recruited, admissions officers do not really care about sports. I know a kid who has perfect grades and a 35 ACT who was a captain of the varsity football and lacrosse teams (and was class treasurer, NHS president, volunteered, and did part time work), and he got rejected from every remotely selective college. The Ivy Leagues, Notre Dame, Michigan, Duke, Stanford, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, UNC, and UVA all rejected him. Many other kids who are two or three sports athletes have similarly bad results.

At most top schools, the students will tell you most people there did not play sports outside of the recruited athletes. Most of their extracurriculars were centered around the major they want to study. Sports are time consuming and take away time from these more impactful extracurriculars. For sports like basketball, baseball, or lacrosse, you are easily spending 20+ hours per week on an activity that ultimately won’t help you in admissions.

And it doesn’t help that in the DMV area, you have to be super talented or spend years playing a sport just to make into the JV team. You have to spend a ridiculous amount of money on sports. Sports are just a waste of time for most kids

I agree that varsity sports is not an impactful EC if I was to do it all over ago. Unless you are recruited athlete, it would help to focus more on grades.

Maybe you just weren’t good enough? I know kids who keep a 3.9+ with a dozen APs and a 1560 SAT that they nailed ina single take with a few hours of review. They do this while leading a top team as a captain and starter. They still find time to rack up 1500 hours of volunteer time because they are consistent and disciplined. What about them? Maybe they are just plain superior all around to those who study furiously to achieve less then whine about recruited athletes being less worthy.

This. Ime, people who excel at one thing often excel at many things because the skills needed to be a good student, a good athlete, a good leader, a good friend and a good romantic partner are the same: high IQ, dedication, self awareness, motivation, ambition, time management skills, grit, perseverance, etc.

I would wager that less than 1% of the NFL, NBA, MLB and NHL scored 1500+ on the SAT, and that sports management is the number 1 college degree (for the ones that graduate).

Let’s keep in perspective the profile of the truly best athletes.

"let's keep in perspective" the value of your obviously ridiculous bias against athletes. My kid is smarter than yours and a better athlete as well. Overall, just better than you and yours. But, we'll keep our views of your limited capbilities in "perspective" as we judge you.