Need help getting Gen Z hires to dress better at work

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The hair issue aside (which has been discussed ad nauseam), it sounds like a pretty simple list could eliminate a lot of these issues:

1) No yoga pants
2) No sweatpants
3) No jeans with holes or designs (e.g., paint splatters)
4) No crocs
5) No flip flops
6) Skirts must not be shorter than the tips of your fingers when standing
7) Clothing must be clean and unwrinkled

Um...they are designers. Why shouldn't they wear Balenciaga crocs? Or Gucci sweatpants? It's a little more important to look stylish than where you work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My company used to do an Etiquette Workshop for the interns and early grads. It included photos of what to wear, what not to wear. We also covered in person client meeting behavior, email correspondence, etc. Some colleges teach this stuff some don’t but instead of getting twisted about it, look at it as an educational need.

This is a great idea. When someone else mentioned bringing in someone from outside, I thought of an etiquette expert. I also agree - if it hasn’t already been done - there should be a session and a written policy on communications - email, any other corporate communication such as teams messenger or slack. Generationally there are such different expectations for casualness in communication and timeliness, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was unprepared for the aesthetic of this year's crop of new hires. They dress horribly - sweatpants, messy hair (looks like they just got out of bed), crocs or other plastic shoes, rumpled t-shirts. For some tasks this is OK, but a lot of the time we are meeting with clients and doing site visits, and we are in the design industry, meaning we generally consider our look part of our branding. Our brand is high end but creative, so there is a lot of leeway, but I just don't know how to tell the younger adults how to dress without offending anyone or being seen to police bodies or hairstyles. But I need them not just to adhere to a list of "don't wear this," but to actively look good. Like, hair combed and styled, preferably some makeup for women, and so on. Does anyone else have this issue and how did you handle it?

Right....and Im sure you would consider a man wearing makeup and nail polish to be suitably dressed and pleasingly aesthetically to your clients?

I dont wear makeup because its dumb, expensive, and lots of chemicals for no real purpose. Sunscreen chemicals get balanced with sun exposure and risk of cancer. There is no balance benefit to makeup besides societal expectations. Not to mention that most people have no idea how much makeup it takes to make a "no makeup" look.

I'm fine if they don't want to wear makeup, but I'm not fine with a messy, frizzy ponytail topping it off. I don't care what the specific look is, but I need them to look good. Our clients are dressed up, our brand is high end and all about aesthetics. I can't even bring them into the sites with me sometimes because they look so bad that I'm sure they would cost us a sale.

Provide a budget for this. For me to go beyond what you would probably view as “a messy, frizzy ponytail “ I’d need to get quarterly relaxers and cuts for $200+ per visit, and add significant health risks to my profile. Heat styling would be safer — but exponentially more expensive and time consuming because of their frequency. What are you offering here?
Also, “aesthetics” is a judgement call. Are you positive that your own judgements and the client’s are aligned?

Don’t do relaxers! https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/black-women-hair-relaxers-cancer-rcna117685 It may explain *some* of the differences in health outcomes.

Correlation vs causation.

True. Quite a lot of health research looks like this — with quite sophisticated statistical methods used to attempt to isolate particular variables and combinations of variables.

The quite expensive and highly unethical alternative would involve isolating a large group of women (increasing statistical power). Making sure that all of the factors in their lives were as similar as possible. Then giving one group relaxers, and, over the decades, noting their health issues, comparing them with the group not given relaxers. Repeating this multiple times would approach causation and take several decades.

Personally I’d rather braid my hair, go with twists, or risk having someone view my natural hair — even in a ponytail— as “unprofessional “.

Wear your hair how you want, but my controversial view is that the natural hair movement has gone to far in the direction of making relaxers seem unacceptable or even evil. There are women who want a different look or find natural hair time consuming, and the culture no longer accepts relaxers as an option. If a lot of us are just going to wear wigs might as well get a relaxer.

“Evil”? Yes, your view is indeed controversial. Which “culture” are you referring to?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was unprepared for the aesthetic of this year's crop of new hires. They dress horribly - sweatpants, messy hair (looks like they just got out of bed), crocs or other plastic shoes, rumpled t-shirts. For some tasks this is OK, but a lot of the time we are meeting with clients and doing site visits, and we are in the design industry, meaning we generally consider our look part of our branding. Our brand is high end but creative, so there is a lot of leeway, but I just don't know how to tell the younger adults how to dress without offending anyone or being seen to police bodies or hairstyles. But I need them not just to adhere to a list of "don't wear this," but to actively look good. Like, hair combed and styled, preferably some makeup for women, and so on. Does anyone else have this issue and how did you handle it?

Right....and Im sure you would consider a man wearing makeup and nail polish to be suitably dressed and pleasingly aesthetically to your clients?

I dont wear makeup because its dumb, expensive, and lots of chemicals for no real purpose. Sunscreen chemicals get balanced with sun exposure and risk of cancer. There is no balance benefit to makeup besides societal expectations. Not to mention that most people have no idea how much makeup it takes to make a "no makeup" look.

I'm fine if they don't want to wear makeup, but I'm not fine with a messy, frizzy ponytail topping it off. I don't care what the specific look is, but I need them to look good. Our clients are dressed up, our brand is high end and all about aesthetics. I can't even bring them into the sites with me sometimes because they look so bad that I'm sure they would cost us a sale.

Provide a budget for this. For me to go beyond what you would probably view as “a messy, frizzy ponytail “ I’d need to get quarterly relaxers and cuts for $200+ per visit, and add significant health risks to my profile. Heat styling would be safer — but exponentially more expensive and time consuming because of their frequency. What are you offering here?
Also, “aesthetics” is a judgement call. Are you positive that your own judgements and the client’s are aligned?

Don’t do relaxers! https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/black-women-hair-relaxers-cancer-rcna117685 It may explain *some* of the differences in health outcomes.

Correlation vs causation.

True. Quite a lot of health research looks like this — with quite sophisticated statistical methods used to attempt to isolate particular variables and combinations of variables.

The quite expensive and highly unethical alternative would involve isolating a large group of women (increasing statistical power). Making sure that all of the factors in their lives were as similar as possible. Then giving one group relaxers, and, over the decades, noting their health issues, comparing them with the group not given relaxers. Repeating this multiple times would approach causation and take several decades.

Personally I’d rather braid my hair, go with twists, or risk having someone view my natural hair — even in a ponytail— as “unprofessional “.

Wear your hair how you want, but my controversial view is that the natural hair movement has gone to far in the direction of making relaxers seem unacceptable or even evil. There are women who want a different look or find natural hair time consuming, and the culture no longer accepts relaxers as an option. If a lot of us are just going to wear wigs might as well get a relaxer.

“Evil”? Yes, your view is indeed controversial. Which “culture” are you referring to?

Like nostrils, everyone has an opinion. I said what I said. The natural hair movement has not been one of freedom, but of judgment. Relaxers are now seen as not allowed, but some people actually might find that relaxers suit their lifestyles, but they hear no no not allowed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The hair issue aside (which has been discussed ad nauseam), it sounds like a pretty simple list could eliminate a lot of these issues:

1) No yoga pants
2) No sweatpants
3) No jeans with holes or designs (e.g., paint splatters)
4) No crocs
5) No flip flops
6) Skirts must not be shorter than the tips of your fingers when standing
7) Clothing must be clean and unwrinkled

Um...they are designers. Why shouldn't they wear Balenciaga crocs? Or Gucci sweatpants? It's a little more important to look stylish than where you work.

Can gen Z employees afford these designer items?

[Anonymous]

It’s not that difficult.

Email gets sent out to everyone. Nobody specific is targeted. “Colleagues, as we enter our new fiscal year we are taking a moment to refocus on our company brand and putting our best foot forward with our clients and industry. As part of this effort, please find below our updated guidelines for appropriate and expected dress, which will help balance self expression in our creative field with professionalism in front of our clients:

Business casual attire should be freshly laundered and ironed
Shoes should be close-toed and season appropriate. No Crocs, sneakers, sandals, etc.
No brand logos
No revealing clothing. Shirts are expected to cover the trunk entirely.

Thanks to everyone for your partnership in this!

Management

[Anonymous]

[twitter]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a college aged daughter and we have had a lot of ups and downs helping her dress professionally for school events and internships. It’s really hard to find professional wear at stores where she wants to shop like Artezia. It seems like you could find things there, but everything is tight, cropped, sleeveless, see-through, etc. and generally made for Instagram. We ended up going to Ann Taylor which she thinks of as for old people, and isn’t exactly stylish career wear. The malls don’t have the stock they used to, and online shopping is hard. If she was looking without me, she probably would be wearing something inappropriate to work.

It’s Aritzia. And literally all my DC’s internship clothes are from there. They have really nice structured pants this season, appropriate length dresses, silky full sleeve button downs. It reminds me of the 90s.

Their pants have such a shallow cut it kills my lady parts when I sit down.
I would do theory pants on the realreal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The hair issue aside (which has been discussed ad nauseam), it sounds like a pretty simple list could eliminate a lot of these issues:

1) No yoga pants
2) No sweatpants
3) No jeans with holes or designs (e.g., paint splatters)
4) No crocs
5) No flip flops
6) Skirts must not be shorter than the tips of your fingers when standing
7) Clothing must be clean and unwrinkled

Um...they are designers. Why shouldn't they wear Balenciaga crocs? Or Gucci sweatpants? It's a little more important to look stylish than where you work.

This is something you learn as you grow up. Sweatpants, even expensive branded ones, are still sweatpants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The hair issue aside (which has been discussed ad nauseam), it sounds like a pretty simple list could eliminate a lot of these issues:

1) No yoga pants
2) No sweatpants
3) No jeans with holes or designs (e.g., paint splatters)
4) No crocs
5) No flip flops
6) Skirts must not be shorter than the tips of your fingers when standing
7) Clothing must be clean and unwrinkled

Um...they are designers. Why shouldn't they wear Balenciaga crocs? Or Gucci sweatpants? It's a little more important to look stylish than where you work.

Can gen Z employees afford these designer items?

They don't have to be those brands. It's the look.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s not that difficult.

Email gets sent out to everyone. Nobody specific is targeted. “Colleagues, as we enter our new fiscal year we are taking a moment to refocus on our company brand and putting our best foot forward with our clients and industry. As part of this effort, please find below our updated guidelines for appropriate and expected dress, which will help balance self expression in our creative field with professionalism in front of our clients:

Business casual attire should be freshly laundered and ironed
Shoes should be close-toed and season appropriate. No Crocs, sneakers, sandals, etc.
No brand logos
No revealing clothing. Shirts are expected to cover the trunk entirely.

Thanks to everyone for your partnership in this!

Management

What is season appropriate shoes supposed to mean? And no brand logos? You're going to write up your senior vp for wearing a Brooks Bros polo?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The hair issue aside (which has been discussed ad nauseam), it sounds like a pretty simple list could eliminate a lot of these issues:

1) No yoga pants
2) No sweatpants
3) No jeans with holes or designs (e.g., paint splatters)
4) No crocs
5) No flip flops
6) Skirts must not be shorter than the tips of your fingers when standing
7) Clothing must be clean and unwrinkled

Um...they are designers. Why shouldn't they wear Balenciaga crocs? Or Gucci sweatpants? It's a little more important to look stylish than where you work.

This is something you learn as you grow up. Sweatpants, even expensive branded ones, are still sweatpants.

Ok, and?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The hair issue aside (which has been discussed ad nauseam), it sounds like a pretty simple list could eliminate a lot of these issues:

1) No yoga pants
2) No sweatpants
3) No jeans with holes or designs (e.g., paint splatters)
4) No crocs
5) No flip flops
6) Skirts must not be shorter than the tips of your fingers when standing
7) Clothing must be clean and unwrinkled

Um...they are designers. Why shouldn't they wear Balenciaga crocs? Or Gucci sweatpants? It's a little more important to look stylish than where you work.

This is something you learn as you grow up. Sweatpants, even expensive branded ones, are still sweatpants.

Ok, and?

And...they won't be allowed under OP's new dress code despite excuses, what is these days called "pushback"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a college aged daughter and we have had a lot of ups and downs helping her dress professionally for school events and internships. It’s really hard to find professional wear at stores where she wants to shop like Artezia. It seems like you could find things there, but everything is tight, cropped, sleeveless, see-through, etc. and generally made for Instagram. We ended up going to Ann Taylor which she thinks of as for old people, and isn’t exactly stylish career wear. The malls don’t have the stock they used to, and online shopping is hard. If she was looking without me, she probably would be wearing something inappropriate to work.

When I was 23 I showed at Anne Taylor and Talbots, because those are the stores that sell professional clothing. I’m glad you helped her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a college aged daughter and we have had a lot of ups and downs helping her dress professionally for school events and internships. It’s really hard to find professional wear at stores where she wants to shop like Artezia. It seems like you could find things there, but everything is tight, cropped, sleeveless, see-through, etc. and generally made for Instagram. We ended up going to Ann Taylor which she thinks of as for old people, and isn’t exactly stylish career wear. The malls don’t have the stock they used to, and online shopping is hard. If she was looking without me, she probably would be wearing something inappropriate to work.

When I was 23 I showed at Anne Taylor and Talbots, because those are the stores that sell professional clothing. I’m glad you helped her.

Anne Taylor is frumpy, I don’t want it at 40.
I am sporting frilly, ruffled dresses from Ulla Johnson everyday at my high finance job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a college aged daughter and we have had a lot of ups and downs helping her dress professionally for school events and internships. It’s really hard to find professional wear at stores where she wants to shop like Artezia. It seems like you could find things there, but everything is tight, cropped, sleeveless, see-through, etc. and generally made for Instagram. We ended up going to Ann Taylor which she thinks of as for old people, and isn’t exactly stylish career wear. The malls don’t have the stock they used to, and online shopping is hard. If she was looking without me, she probably would be wearing something inappropriate to work.

When I was 23 I showed at Anne Taylor and Talbots, because those are the stores that sell professional clothing. I’m glad you helped her.

Anne Taylor is frumpy, I don’t want it at 40.
I am sporting frilly, ruffled dresses from Ulla Johnson everyday at my high finance job.

What’s frumpy is your attitude. No one will look at a 23 y o in Ann Taylor clothes and think she is 40. And some women just don’t like frilly dresses.