Why pay all of kids' college?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have been MC all my life. I wanted to be married, have kids, and have at least a MC life. Beginning of marital life, we were quite poor and made very little money. Later on, our earnings increased.

Because of that - we only had 2 kids, only lived in house in a inexpensive neighborhood, only sent my kids to our local public K-12 schools, did not have a pet, lived a modest life, saved for our retirement, emergency fun, and started saving for as much college as we could. My kids went in-state and chose majors that can get them employed.

We first saved for 2 years of community college tuition, then we added 2 years of in-state public university tuition, then we added two more years of Masters in-state public college. Once we had that in place, we started to save for living expenses for 2,4, 6 years. Once we had hit that target, we started to save for MBA, medical school, law school etc.

Paying for kids college gives them a SES leg-up that can help them and future generations. So, I don't have to sing the praises of college education for the kids or why making kids graduate debt-free is a blessing to them. Suffice to say, you need to live with a degree of frugality to save for your kids.

If you are very poor, then at least make your kids high achievers by prioritizing education and enriching them at home.

I think people are critical when parents live a lavish life - vacations, booze, socializing, expensive hobbies and do not save for the kids education.

You do appreciate that "very poor" people are literally just trying to survive. It is maybe .01% of very poor people that are in a position to make their kids high achievers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the people I know didn't have loans.

Are most of the people you know from very upper class families?

No, it was just cheaper back then. But now that I think about it, I know people who had grad school loans.

I don't know a single person who didn't have undergrad loans who wasn't very wealthy. (class of '89)

Considering college was cheaper back then, this exemplifies why the pressure for middle class to pay all of it is becoming unrealistic. There was a separate thread about saving $1M(!!!!).

Only the very wealthy can do that, or perhaps middle class who essentially live poorly and/or have some form of generational wealth (like didn't have loans, unexpected inheritance, etc.) to help them in that pursuit.

DP to add, even becoming unrealistic for UMC. UMC can perhaps cover state tuition if they plan very well, but private tuition for more than one kid? It's like fully owning 3 houses.

Umc can afford college. It’s about lifestyle choices.

Depends on a lot. Are you UMC because you got there quickly with generational wealth, your parents helped you pay for college and/or cars previously, a down payment on a house, etc. Or are you UMC after spending 1-2 decades paying off prior loans, saving for a down payment (in our case, $3k was all we could afford on a fixer upper in an "undesirable" area), and climbing the ladder?

Are you UMC technically by national income standards but MC in an urban area because you are beholden to a job in a HCOL area? FAFSA doesn't care if you live in DC or rural flyover country. My income is $120k but would be $40k less outside of the DMV area. DH would also earn considerably less.

But yes, we're UMC technically speaking. No, we won't be able to afford to send our kids full ride.

Sounds like excuses. Our mortgage was $2200 as we knew we had to save for college. Fafsa should not care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:We plan pay between 80-100% of an in state public undergraduate degree. The way that loan companies go after young adults who have zero experience is shameful and can impact them for the rest of their lives.

For grad school, we’ll work with them on choices and financial pros/cons but it will be their money at that point.

Usually parents do 50/50 split on grad school. Your money is more their money. You will be dead soon anyhow

I don't think this is true at all.

They can use their inheritance to pay off what remains of their grad school loans.

I'm 55, my parents are early/mid 80s and still going strong. Most people could be 60+ before they "get their inheritance". Smart parents (if they have the money) will help kids with grad school and avoid the major interest collection

My parent gave my sister an interest-free loan for grad school, which I think is a good way to handle it. I would do the same for our kids but also, as a late-50s with one surviving mid-80s parent in poor health, we might consider paying for grad school with the stipulation that it will come out of the kid's share of the inheritance from grandma (since my dad died recently and we helped mom with financial stuff, I have a pretty good sense of what to expect).

Just pay for grad school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been MC all my life. I wanted to be married, have kids, and have at least a MC life. Beginning of marital life, we were quite poor and made very little money. Later on, our earnings increased.

Because of that - we only had 2 kids, only lived in house in a inexpensive neighborhood, only sent my kids to our local public K-12 schools, did not have a pet, lived a modest life, saved for our retirement, emergency fun, and started saving for as much college as we could. My kids went in-state and chose majors that can get them employed.

We first saved for 2 years of community college tuition, then we added 2 years of in-state public university tuition, then we added two more years of Masters in-state public college. Once we had that in place, we started to save for living expenses for 2,4, 6 years. Once we had hit that target, we started to save for MBA, medical school, law school etc.

Paying for kids college gives them a SES leg-up that can help them and future generations. So, I don't have to sing the praises of college education for the kids or why making kids graduate debt-free is a blessing to them. Suffice to say, you need to live with a degree of frugality to save for your kids.

If you are very poor, then at least make your kids high achievers by prioritizing education and enriching them at home.

I think people are critical when parents live a lavish life - vacations, booze, socializing, expensive hobbies and do not save for the kids education.

The problem is graduate school really is a complete option, and often times a bad move. I would not blindly agree to pay for my kid to go law school or get an MBA or do any kind of academic graduate program where tuition plus a stipend is not offered (because that means, it is a lifestyle program...not one in demand). Medical school is different.

I am with some PPs that would likely give a low to zero-interest loan to a kid for graduate school...but only if they have a clear plan and it is a top program. Anything other than Medical school (or again, a PhD program that is essentially "free"...so may help with some living expenses)...no way I would pay to go straight to grad school without working in the real world for 3-5 years.

We will pay for grad school. I don’t understand why you would not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the people I know didn't have loans.

Are most of the people you know from very upper class families?

No, it was just cheaper back then. But now that I think about it, I know people who had grad school loans.

I don't know a single person who didn't have undergrad loans who wasn't very wealthy. (class of '89)

Considering college was cheaper back then, this exemplifies why the pressure for middle class to pay all of it is becoming unrealistic. There was a separate thread about saving $1M(!!!!).

Only the very wealthy can do that, or perhaps middle class who essentially live poorly and/or have some form of generational wealth (like didn't have loans, unexpected inheritance, etc.) to help them in that pursuit.

College was not that much cheaper given incomes and inflation. A private was still $40-50k 30 years ago.

No it wasn't. I attended a T10 uni, graduated in 93 (that university is now 90K+). My last year the total cost/all-in with all fees/travel/etc was estimated at 27K. My first year (took 5 years for 2 degrees) was ~$20 or 21K.

But the differential between private/public was still huge. My public U cost <$2k in tuition/fees (can't recall the room & board cost) so my parents insisted I do that vs. private college that they felt was too expensive.

I only did private because my family was LMC/MC. That first year, I took 2650 in fed loans, 1325 in Work Study, and after Grants I owed $4K. I got a 16K grant. So Deal was I paid half and my parents paid half. The paid for books and I paid all other expenses (fun/entertainment/extras).

So in my situation, the elite private was actually cheaper (or about same) as most in-state schools. And quite frankly, none of the instate schools were good at my double major (CS/engineering and Music performance)---I would have had to majorly sacrifice on the music wherever I went (I went to a Top 5 music school).

[Anonymous]

I went to StonyBook in 1981 and annual Tuition was $950 a year.

In 2024 based off my parents income tuition is Zero.

Not all places went up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been MC all my life. I wanted to be married, have kids, and have at least a MC life. Beginning of marital life, we were quite poor and made very little money. Later on, our earnings increased.

Because of that - we only had 2 kids, only lived in house in a inexpensive neighborhood, only sent my kids to our local public K-12 schools, did not have a pet, lived a modest life, saved for our retirement, emergency fun, and started saving for as much college as we could. My kids went in-state and chose majors that can get them employed.

We first saved for 2 years of community college tuition, then we added 2 years of in-state public university tuition, then we added two more years of Masters in-state public college. Once we had that in place, we started to save for living expenses for 2,4, 6 years. Once we had hit that target, we started to save for MBA, medical school, law school etc.

Paying for kids college gives them a SES leg-up that can help them and future generations. So, I don't have to sing the praises of college education for the kids or why making kids graduate debt-free is a blessing to them. Suffice to say, you need to live with a degree of frugality to save for your kids.

If you are very poor, then at least make your kids high achievers by prioritizing education and enriching them at home.

I think people are critical when parents live a lavish life - vacations, booze, socializing, expensive hobbies and do not save for the kids education.

The problem is graduate school really is a complete option, and often times a bad move. I would not blindly agree to pay for my kid to go law school or get an MBA or do any kind of academic graduate program where tuition plus a stipend is not offered (because that means, it is a lifestyle program...not one in demand). Medical school is different.

I am with some PPs that would likely give a low to zero-interest loan to a kid for graduate school...but only if they have a clear plan and it is a top program. Anything other than Medical school (or again, a PhD program that is essentially "free"...so may help with some living expenses)...no way I would pay to go straight to grad school without working in the real world for 3-5 years.

We will pay for grad school. I don’t understand why you would not.

Because it can easily be a bad decision that never pays off...in fact it has a negative opportunity cost. Why would you fund a bad decision that may end up with a worse life outcome?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have been MC all my life. I wanted to be married, have kids, and have at least a MC life. Beginning of marital life, we were quite poor and made very little money. Later on, our earnings increased.

Because of that - we only had 2 kids, only lived in house in a inexpensive neighborhood, only sent my kids to our local public K-12 schools, did not have a pet, lived a modest life, saved for our retirement, emergency fun, and started saving for as much college as we could. My kids went in-state and chose majors that can get them employed.

We first saved for 2 years of community college tuition, then we added 2 years of in-state public university tuition, then we added two more years of Masters in-state public college. Once we had that in place, we started to save for living expenses for 2,4, 6 years. Once we had hit that target, we started to save for MBA, medical school, law school etc.

Paying for kids college gives them a SES leg-up that can help them and future generations. So, I don't have to sing the praises of college education for the kids or why making kids graduate debt-free is a blessing to them. Suffice to say, you need to live with a degree of frugality to save for your kids.

If you are very poor, then at least make your kids high achievers by prioritizing education and enriching them at home.

I think people are critical when parents live a lavish life - vacations, booze, socializing, expensive hobbies and do not save for the kids education.

THIS^^^

If you can afford several $10K+ vacations a year, then you could have chosen to save for college. An extra $10-20K towards college savings left to compound over 10+ years goes far.

Same if you drive a $60K car and get new ones every 5 years. You made a choice, but you could have instead chosen to put that extra $30K in to college savings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been MC all my life. I wanted to be married, have kids, and have at least a MC life. Beginning of marital life, we were quite poor and made very little money. Later on, our earnings increased.

Because of that - we only had 2 kids, only lived in house in a inexpensive neighborhood, only sent my kids to our local public K-12 schools, did not have a pet, lived a modest life, saved for our retirement, emergency fun, and started saving for as much college as we could. My kids went in-state and chose majors that can get them employed.

We first saved for 2 years of community college tuition, then we added 2 years of in-state public university tuition, then we added two more years of Masters in-state public college. Once we had that in place, we started to save for living expenses for 2,4, 6 years. Once we had hit that target, we started to save for MBA, medical school, law school etc.

Paying for kids college gives them a SES leg-up that can help them and future generations. So, I don't have to sing the praises of college education for the kids or why making kids graduate debt-free is a blessing to them. Suffice to say, you need to live with a degree of frugality to save for your kids.

If you are very poor, then at least make your kids high achievers by prioritizing education and enriching them at home.

I think people are critical when parents live a lavish life - vacations, booze, socializing, expensive hobbies and do not save for the kids education.

The problem is graduate school really is a complete option, and often times a bad move. I would not blindly agree to pay for my kid to go law school or get an MBA or do any kind of academic graduate program where tuition plus a stipend is not offered (because that means, it is a lifestyle program...not one in demand). Medical school is different.

I am with some PPs that would likely give a low to zero-interest loan to a kid for graduate school...but only if they have a clear plan and it is a top program. Anything other than Medical school (or again, a PhD program that is essentially "free"...so may help with some living expenses)...no way I would pay to go straight to grad school without working in the real world for 3-5 years.

yes, nobody should be getting an MBA without first working 3-5 years. Law school and med school are different, but really law school, it would be beneficial to work a bit and make sure that's really what you want to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We wanted to pay for our kids' college (public school budget) because our parents did that for us. For me, it was going to a good CA state U, living on campus but had to turn down more expensive private schools. for DS it was living at home to go to the local university, the only place he applied to as a working class kid who'd never been expected to go to college.

Starting off with no loan payments is a huge gift.

We took the same approach my parents did - we set a budget of in-state public cost and let them apply where they wanted. Both picked schools in our budget (one in-state and one OOS) and grandparents ended up paying for one year for each of them.

I went to a CSU and commuted; I worked 20+hours per week to pay for it with a little bit of pell/cal grants. I was constantly tired and unhappy. I don't ever want that for my kids.

But, tuition had more than doubled by the time I graduated (back in early 90s). College costs are insane. My niece also went to a CSU 10 years ago, on a loan. My single parent sibling couldn't afford it even though they were making more than my parents did way back when.

College costs have way surpassed inflation, and wages haven't kept up with inflation let alone college costs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been MC all my life. I wanted to be married, have kids, and have at least a MC life. Beginning of marital life, we were quite poor and made very little money. Later on, our earnings increased.

Because of that - we only had 2 kids, only lived in house in a inexpensive neighborhood, only sent my kids to our local public K-12 schools, did not have a pet, lived a modest life, saved for our retirement, emergency fun, and started saving for as much college as we could. My kids went in-state and chose majors that can get them employed.

We first saved for 2 years of community college tuition, then we added 2 years of in-state public university tuition, then we added two more years of Masters in-state public college. Once we had that in place, we started to save for living expenses for 2,4, 6 years. Once we had hit that target, we started to save for MBA, medical school, law school etc.

Paying for kids college gives them a SES leg-up that can help them and future generations. So, I don't have to sing the praises of college education for the kids or why making kids graduate debt-free is a blessing to them. Suffice to say, you need to live with a degree of frugality to save for your kids.

If you are very poor, then at least make your kids high achievers by prioritizing education and enriching them at home.

I think people are critical when parents live a lavish life - vacations, booze, socializing, expensive hobbies and do not save for the kids education.

The problem is graduate school really is a complete option, and often times a bad move. I would not blindly agree to pay for my kid to go law school or get an MBA or do any kind of academic graduate program where tuition plus a stipend is not offered (because that means, it is a lifestyle program...not one in demand). Medical school is different.

I am with some PPs that would likely give a low to zero-interest loan to a kid for graduate school...but only if they have a clear plan and it is a top program. Anything other than Medical school (or again, a PhD program that is essentially "free"...so may help with some living expenses)...no way I would pay to go straight to grad school without working in the real world for 3-5 years.

We will pay for grad school. I don’t understand why you would not.

NP. Because we have a finite amount of resources, I want to retire and enjoy what is left of my life. I can afford to retire while I'm young and do the things on my bucket or fund my kids through their twenties while they pursue graduate degrees. I'll choose me on this one (after decades of putting them first). I gave my kids a debt-free undergrad. If they want to go to grad school, they'll need to choose wisely based on how it will benefit their career.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been MC all my life. I wanted to be married, have kids, and have at least a MC life. Beginning of marital life, we were quite poor and made very little money. Later on, our earnings increased.

Because of that - we only had 2 kids, only lived in house in a inexpensive neighborhood, only sent my kids to our local public K-12 schools, did not have a pet, lived a modest life, saved for our retirement, emergency fun, and started saving for as much college as we could. My kids went in-state and chose majors that can get them employed.

We first saved for 2 years of community college tuition, then we added 2 years of in-state public university tuition, then we added two more years of Masters in-state public college. Once we had that in place, we started to save for living expenses for 2,4, 6 years. Once we had hit that target, we started to save for MBA, medical school, law school etc.

Paying for kids college gives them a SES leg-up that can help them and future generations. So, I don't have to sing the praises of college education for the kids or why making kids graduate debt-free is a blessing to them. Suffice to say, you need to live with a degree of frugality to save for your kids.

If you are very poor, then at least make your kids high achievers by prioritizing education and enriching them at home.

I think people are critical when parents live a lavish life - vacations, booze, socializing, expensive hobbies and do not save for the kids education.

You do appreciate that "very poor" people are literally just trying to survive. It is maybe .01% of very poor people that are in a position to make their kids high achievers.

What rubbish! Are we talking about people living in a waitron place that are just trying to survive? The "very poor" people in US are still doing alright. If you can speak, read and write English, and have access to a library - your kids can be enriched at home by you. If the parents are drug addicts, mentally sick and you are living in a cardboard box then they should not be having kids in the first place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been MC all my life. I wanted to be married, have kids, and have at least a MC life. Beginning of marital life, we were quite poor and made very little money. Later on, our earnings increased.

Because of that - we only had 2 kids, only lived in house in a inexpensive neighborhood, only sent my kids to our local public K-12 schools, did not have a pet, lived a modest life, saved for our retirement, emergency fun, and started saving for as much college as we could. My kids went in-state and chose majors that can get them employed.

We first saved for 2 years of community college tuition, then we added 2 years of in-state public university tuition, then we added two more years of Masters in-state public college. Once we had that in place, we started to save for living expenses for 2,4, 6 years. Once we had hit that target, we started to save for MBA, medical school, law school etc.

Paying for kids college gives them a SES leg-up that can help them and future generations. So, I don't have to sing the praises of college education for the kids or why making kids graduate debt-free is a blessing to them. Suffice to say, you need to live with a degree of frugality to save for your kids.

If you are very poor, then at least make your kids high achievers by prioritizing education and enriching them at home.

I think people are critical when parents live a lavish life - vacations, booze, socializing, expensive hobbies and do not save for the kids education.

You do appreciate that "very poor" people are literally just trying to survive. It is maybe .01% of very poor people that are in a position to make their kids high achievers.

What rubbish! Are we talking about people living in a waitron place that are just trying to survive? The "very poor" people in US are still doing alright. If you can speak, read and write English, and have access to a library - your kids can be enriched at home by you. If the parents are drug addicts, mentally sick and you are living in a cardboard box then they should not be having kids in the first place.

How can very poor people be doing alright? They wouldn't be very poor if they were doing alright, no?

Your comments reflect the values and ethic you think they should have, but not the values that 99.9% do have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been MC all my life. I wanted to be married, have kids, and have at least a MC life. Beginning of marital life, we were quite poor and made very little money. Later on, our earnings increased.

Because of that - we only had 2 kids, only lived in house in a inexpensive neighborhood, only sent my kids to our local public K-12 schools, did not have a pet, lived a modest life, saved for our retirement, emergency fun, and started saving for as much college as we could. My kids went in-state and chose majors that can get them employed.

We first saved for 2 years of community college tuition, then we added 2 years of in-state public university tuition, then we added two more years of Masters in-state public college. Once we had that in place, we started to save for living expenses for 2,4, 6 years. Once we had hit that target, we started to save for MBA, medical school, law school etc.

Paying for kids college gives them a SES leg-up that can help them and future generations. So, I don't have to sing the praises of college education for the kids or why making kids graduate debt-free is a blessing to them. Suffice to say, you need to live with a degree of frugality to save for your kids.

If you are very poor, then at least make your kids high achievers by prioritizing education and enriching them at home.

I think people are critical when parents live a lavish life - vacations, booze, socializing, expensive hobbies and do not save for the kids education.

You do appreciate that "very poor" people are literally just trying to survive. It is maybe .01% of very poor people that are in a position to make their kids high achievers.

What rubbish! Are we talking about people living in a waitron place that are just trying to survive? The "very poor" people in US are still doing alright. If you can speak, read and write English, and have access to a library - your kids can be enriched at home by you. If the parents are drug addicts, mentally sick and you are living in a cardboard box then they should not be having kids in the first place.

Poor people typically live far from work and have to rely on public transport to get to work, which makes their commute even longer. In addition, to make ends meet, they might have multiple jobs. They don't have time to enrich their kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been MC all my life. I wanted to be married, have kids, and have at least a MC life. Beginning of marital life, we were quite poor and made very little money. Later on, our earnings increased.

Because of that - we only had 2 kids, only lived in house in a inexpensive neighborhood, only sent my kids to our local public K-12 schools, did not have a pet, lived a modest life, saved for our retirement, emergency fun, and started saving for as much college as we could. My kids went in-state and chose majors that can get them employed.

We first saved for 2 years of community college tuition, then we added 2 years of in-state public university tuition, then we added two more years of Masters in-state public college. Once we had that in place, we started to save for living expenses for 2,4, 6 years. Once we had hit that target, we started to save for MBA, medical school, law school etc.

Paying for kids college gives them a SES leg-up that can help them and future generations. So, I don't have to sing the praises of college education for the kids or why making kids graduate debt-free is a blessing to them. Suffice to say, you need to live with a degree of frugality to save for your kids.

If you are very poor, then at least make your kids high achievers by prioritizing education and enriching them at home.

I think people are critical when parents live a lavish life - vacations, booze, socializing, expensive hobbies and do not save for the kids education.

The problem is graduate school really is a complete option, and often times a bad move. I would not blindly agree to pay for my kid to go law school or get an MBA or do any kind of academic graduate program where tuition plus a stipend is not offered (because that means, it is a lifestyle program...not one in demand). Medical school is different.

I am with some PPs that would likely give a low to zero-interest loan to a kid for graduate school...but only if they have a clear plan and it is a top program. Anything other than Medical school (or again, a PhD program that is essentially "free"...so may help with some living expenses)...no way I would pay to go straight to grad school without working in the real world for 3-5 years.

We will pay for grad school. I don’t understand why you would not.

Because it can easily be a bad decision that never pays off...in fact it has a negative opportunity cost. Why would you fund a bad decision that may end up with a worse life outcome?

Education is always a good decision. I have a masters, my spouse doesn't. They wish they got one.