Compared Against Peers - T20 Admissions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, friend at top NYC private with top academics did not get into first choice Ivy because there were 2 kids with bigger hooks ahead in line.

My DD from a DMV private had 4 of 4 admitted ED to an Ivy only 1 year after 0 of 3 were admitted. There is no quota or limit per class even in ED.

I read somewhere that colleges will admit in clumps like this when they have a lower stats hooked (eg super legacy) kid they really to admit without looking unfair. I’m guessing they’d be more conscious of this at private high schools where students are more likely to be aware of their peers’ standing than at a large public.

Strange logic!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, friend at top NYC private with top academics did not get into first choice Ivy because there were 2 kids with bigger hooks ahead in line.

My DD from a DMV private had 4 of 4 admitted ED to an Ivy only 1 year after 0 of 3 were admitted. There is no quota or limit per class even in ED.

I read somewhere that colleges will admit in clumps like this when they have a lower stats hooked (eg super legacy) kid they really to admit without looking unfair. I’m guessing they’d be more conscious of this at private high schools where students are more likely to be aware of their peers’ standing than at a large public.

they talked about this on a podcast I listen to not long ago. not crumbs, but if they want a kid who is not the "best on paper" kid out of that school group, they'll take the kid they want and also another top kid (or two) from same HS so it doesn't look too crazy. It's called tailcoating or something.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I am confused as to why this is more of an issue at private schools. At public schools, dozens of kids apply to the same competitive schools and the chips fall where they may. There isn’t the same level of ownership over the process. Everyone knows they have zero control and they have a “might as well try” attitude.

It’s an issue at some privates because families are paying and many expect a return on their investment. That’s not the case at public school. In addition, private families appear to prefer top private colleges and they all have low acceptance rates.

And those selective private universities tend to prefer high performing kids from good public schools. Compare the college lists from the W schools to the privates.

If elite college acceptances are the goal, it's a very poor return on investment

Huh? The private schools still have better matriculation on a per capita basis. Rich or upper middle class kids are not an institutional priority at any school, public or private, unless they are donors or legacy. Smart kids from poor rural or urban districts are in demand.

And there are more and more qualified public school kids than ever. They outnumber kids in private schools by a wide margin.

There will always be the NYC private schools and New England prep schools who send an impressive amount of students to Ivy leagues. There’s also the science public schools around the country who only take top students who are sending an impressive amount to MIT and other top schools.

All things considered with GPAs, tests etc being equal, mediocre private schools probably have the least desirable student.

If you say so, you obviously have a huge chip on your shoulder. All I know is that the private schools I send my kids to have far better matriculation than our local public schools.

Yup. Since your private screens out all but the top students via entry exams, you will likely end up with overall better students than your public, that takes all comers. But I bet if you compare your private to the top 20% of the local public, there is similar matriculation.

Pretty much. It's hard to compare a private school that caters to the rich and can reject students with a public high school that takes everyone and has more than 2000 students. But the top 20 percent of public school students are generally outstanding. And colleges do seem to prefer them these days over students from Sidwell, St. Albans etc.

The private school boost isn't happening in DC. That's a NY thing. And it's real. Or some of the NE boarding schools like Andover. Or Harvard-Westlake in LA. But not the DMV for otherwise unhooked kids.

The Bethesda magazine compilation from 2022 and 2023 indicates you are wrong when considered in light of STA, Sidwell and GDS in 2022 and 2023.

I know nothing of Maret or NoVa publics.

But, the school I know best, Sidwell, vs. BCC, JR/Wilson, Whitman ... it's not actually close PP. On a per capita basis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am confused as to why this is more of an issue at private schools. At public schools, dozens of kids apply to the same competitive schools and the chips fall where they may. There isn’t the same level of ownership over the process. Everyone knows they have zero control and they have a “might as well try” attitude.

It’s an issue at some privates because families are paying and many expect a return on their investment. That’s not the case at public school. In addition, private families appear to prefer top private colleges and they all have low acceptance rates.

And those selective private universities tend to prefer high performing kids from good public schools. Compare the college lists from the W schools to the privates.

If elite college acceptances are the goal, it's a very poor return on investment

Huh? The private schools still have better matriculation on a per capita basis. Rich or upper middle class kids are not an institutional priority at any school, public or private, unless they are donors or legacy. Smart kids from poor rural or urban districts are in demand.

And there are more and more qualified public school kids than ever. They outnumber kids in private schools by a wide margin.

There will always be the NYC private schools and New England prep schools who send an impressive amount of students to Ivy leagues. There’s also the science public schools around the country who only take top students who are sending an impressive amount to MIT and other top schools.

All things considered with GPAs, tests etc being equal, mediocre private schools probably have the least desirable student.

If you say so, you obviously have a huge chip on your shoulder. All I know is that the private schools I send my kids to have far better matriculation than our local public schools.

Yup. Since your private screens out all but the top students via entry exams, you will likely end up with overall better students than your public, that takes all comers. But I bet if you compare your private to the top 20% of the local public, there is similar matriculation.

Pretty much. It's hard to compare a private school that caters to the rich and can reject students with a public high school that takes everyone and has more than 2000 students. But the top 20 percent of public school students are generally outstanding. And colleges do seem to prefer them these days over students from Sidwell, St. Albans etc.

The private school boost isn't happening in DC. That's a NY thing. And it's real. Or some of the NE boarding schools like Andover. Or Harvard-Westlake in LA. But not the DMV for otherwise unhooked kids.

The Bethesda magazine compilation from 2022 and 2023 indicates you are wrong when considered in light of STA, Sidwell and GDS in 2022 and 2023.

I know nothing of Maret or NoVa publics.

But, the school I know best, Sidwell, vs. BCC, JR/Wilson, Whitman ... it's not actually close PP. On a per capita basis.

The Bethesda magazine is missing well over half the Whitman kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am confused as to why this is more of an issue at private schools. At public schools, dozens of kids apply to the same competitive schools and the chips fall where they may. There isn’t the same level of ownership over the process. Everyone knows they have zero control and they have a “might as well try” attitude.

It’s an issue at some privates because families are paying and many expect a return on their investment. That’s not the case at public school. In addition, private families appear to prefer top private colleges and they all have low acceptance rates.

And those selective private universities tend to prefer high performing kids from good public schools. Compare the college lists from the W schools to the privates.

If elite college acceptances are the goal, it's a very poor return on investment

Huh? The private schools still have better matriculation on a per capita basis. Rich or upper middle class kids are not an institutional priority at any school, public or private, unless they are donors or legacy. Smart kids from poor rural or urban districts are in demand.

And there are more and more qualified public school kids than ever. They outnumber kids in private schools by a wide margin.

There will always be the NYC private schools and New England prep schools who send an impressive amount of students to Ivy leagues. There’s also the science public schools around the country who only take top students who are sending an impressive amount to MIT and other top schools.

All things considered with GPAs, tests etc being equal, mediocre private schools probably have the least desirable student.

If you say so, you obviously have a huge chip on your shoulder. All I know is that the private schools I send my kids to have far better matriculation than our local public schools.

Yup. Since your private screens out all but the top students via entry exams, you will likely end up with overall better students than your public, that takes all comers. But I bet if you compare your private to the top 20% of the local public, there is similar matriculation.

Pretty much. It's hard to compare a private school that caters to the rich and can reject students with a public high school that takes everyone and has more than 2000 students. But the top 20 percent of public school students are generally outstanding. And colleges do seem to prefer them these days over students from Sidwell, St. Albans etc.

The private school boost isn't happening in DC. That's a NY thing. And it's real. Or some of the NE boarding schools like Andover. Or Harvard-Westlake in LA. But not the DMV for otherwise unhooked kids.

This just isn’t correct. But you can say anything when not looking at actual results. The vast majority of kids at public high schools are going to an instate public, and there are some excellent ones locally. But the matriculation isn’t comparable to the better dmv private schools, on a per capita basis to account for the vast difference in the size of the class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not only does our HS limit apps to avoid a kid grabbing too much, they’ll have a sit down w kid and parents if you even think about applying to more schools after SCEA acceptance. If one more far reach, maybe. But not a lot. If it’s for financial reasons, that’s different

but if it's financial reasons, then wouldn't the SCEA admit take care of that? Are there SCEA admits that do not meet full need?

I think it's because when a college says they meet full need it doesn't mean a family can actually afford the tuition.
We have a HHI of $400 and Harvard would likely say we have no need but it doesn't mean we have $90K to pay for Harvard each year.

Of course then the question becomes, why would I allow my kid to apply to Harvard in the first place if I wasn't willing and able to pay that $90K? Personally I would not and I have not. If I allow them to apply to a school like Harvard I'm saying I'm 100% committed to sticker price if they get in. But I think some families do apply SCEA and then say, "uh, never mind. I think we'll try for a cheaper option in RD."

Yes but a cheaper option will NOT be found at the non SCEA ivies, MIT. will instead have to look for the rare full ride (or close) merit in T20ish schools (Vandy, Duke, WashU..not sure if there are any others) or expand to T50? So there’s no reason to run the table and apply to the other ivies+ if you got into SCEA/REA school.

Sure it can. Friend got a much better FA offer from Columbia than Yale. Mine got a far better offer from Wesleyan than a couple Ivies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am confused as to why this is more of an issue at private schools. At public schools, dozens of kids apply to the same competitive schools and the chips fall where they may. There isn’t the same level of ownership over the process. Everyone knows they have zero control and they have a “might as well try” attitude.

It’s an issue at some privates because families are paying and many expect a return on their investment. That’s not the case at public school. In addition, private families appear to prefer top private colleges and they all have low acceptance rates.

And those selective private universities tend to prefer high performing kids from good public schools. Compare the college lists from the W schools to the privates.

If elite college acceptances are the goal, it's a very poor return on investment

Huh? The private schools still have better matriculation on a per capita basis. Rich or upper middle class kids are not an institutional priority at any school, public or private, unless they are donors or legacy. Smart kids from poor rural or urban districts are in demand.

And there are more and more qualified public school kids than ever. They outnumber kids in private schools by a wide margin.

There will always be the NYC private schools and New England prep schools who send an impressive amount of students to Ivy leagues. There’s also the science public schools around the country who only take top students who are sending an impressive amount to MIT and other top schools.

All things considered with GPAs, tests etc being equal, mediocre private schools probably have the least desirable student.

If you say so, you obviously have a huge chip on your shoulder. All I know is that the private schools I send my kids to have far better matriculation than our local public schools.

Yup. Since your private screens out all but the top students via entry exams, you will likely end up with overall better students than your public, that takes all comers. But I bet if you compare your private to the top 20% of the local public, there is similar matriculation.

Pretty much. It's hard to compare a private school that caters to the rich and can reject students with a public high school that takes everyone and has more than 2000 students. But the top 20 percent of public school students are generally outstanding. And colleges do seem to prefer them these days over students from Sidwell, St. Albans etc.

The private school boost isn't happening in DC. That's a NY thing. And it's real. Or some of the NE boarding schools like Andover. Or Harvard-Westlake in LA. But not the DMV for otherwise unhooked kids.

The Bethesda magazine compilation from 2022 and 2023 indicates you are wrong when considered in light of STA, Sidwell and GDS in 2022 and 2023.

I know nothing of Maret or NoVa publics.

But, the school I know best, Sidwell, vs. BCC, JR/Wilson, Whitman ... it's not actually close PP. On a per capita basis.

But you can only count 20% of the class at the W schools because reasons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am confused as to why this is more of an issue at private schools. At public schools, dozens of kids apply to the same competitive schools and the chips fall where they may. There isn’t the same level of ownership over the process. Everyone knows they have zero control and they have a “might as well try” attitude.

Another public school parent. I wish there were more of a mix here. So tired of wvery thread being dominated by a private school subset.

My guess is entitlement. There is a sense among some (not all of course) that the private school investment entitles their kid to a certain tier of college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am confused as to why this is more of an issue at private schools. At public schools, dozens of kids apply to the same competitive schools and the chips fall where they may. There isn’t the same level of ownership over the process. Everyone knows they have zero control and they have a “might as well try” attitude.

It’s an issue at some privates because families are paying and many expect a return on their investment. That’s not the case at public school. In addition, private families appear to prefer top private colleges and they all have low acceptance rates.

Public schools have their own version of this. Family paid for Hopkins CTY, years of math/cs enrichment, musical instrument lessons and summer programs etc etc viewing it all as a down-payment on a top tier school. Not unusual at W and magnets in MCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am confused as to why this is more of an issue at private schools. At public schools, dozens of kids apply to the same competitive schools and the chips fall where they may. There isn’t the same level of ownership over the process. Everyone knows they have zero control and they have a “might as well try” attitude.

Another public school parent. I wish there were more of a mix here. So tired of wvery thread being dominated by a private school subset.

My guess is entitlement. There is a sense among some (not all of course) that the private school investment entitles their kid to a certain tier of college.

Or maybe private school parents love their children more than you and as a result are more willing to advocate for changes that help them rather than sit back and do nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not only does our HS limit apps to avoid a kid grabbing too much, they’ll have a sit down w kid and parents if you even think about applying to more schools after SCEA acceptance. If one more far reach, maybe. But not a lot. If it’s for financial reasons, that’s different

but if it's financial reasons, then wouldn't the SCEA admit take care of that? Are there SCEA admits that do not meet full need?

I think it's because when a college says they meet full need it doesn't mean a family can actually afford the tuition.
We have a HHI of $400 and Harvard would likely say we have no need but it doesn't mean we have $90K to pay for Harvard each year.

But if you have been saying for college and could afford the 50 k a year for Big 3… you should be able to afford it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am confused as to why this is more of an issue at private schools. At public schools, dozens of kids apply to the same competitive schools and the chips fall where they may. There isn’t the same level of ownership over the process. Everyone knows they have zero control and they have a “might as well try” attitude.

Another public school parent. I wish there were more of a mix here. So tired of wvery thread being dominated by a private school subset.

My guess is entitlement. There is a sense among some (not all of course) that the private school investment entitles their kid to a certain tier of college.

Or maybe private school parents love their children more than you and as a result are more willing to advocate for changes that help them rather than sit back and do nothing.

Sure tell yourself you are “advocating”…
Signed a fellow Big 3 parent

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am confused as to why this is more of an issue at private schools. At public schools, dozens of kids apply to the same competitive schools and the chips fall where they may. There isn’t the same level of ownership over the process. Everyone knows they have zero control and they have a “might as well try” attitude.

Another public school parent. I wish there were more of a mix here. So tired of wvery thread being dominated by a private school subset.

My guess is entitlement. There is a sense among some (not all of course) that the private school investment entitles their kid to a certain tier of college.

Or maybe private school parents love their children more than you and as a result are more willing to advocate for changes that help them rather than sit back and do nothing.

Sure tell yourself you are “advocating”…
Signed a fellow Big 3 parent

The fact that you identified yourself as a big 3 parent is, on its own, pathetic. No one cares.

[Anonymous]

Come on, the whole premise that AOs rank applicants from one school solely on the basis of stats is so troll- worthy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Come on, the whole premise that AOs rank applicants from one school solely on the basis of stats is so troll- worthy.

I think folks here have said it’s true? Is it not?