IB Diploma Success Stories?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I got an IB diploma and both post regularly on DCUM and have also worked for MCPS, so by the metrics of this forum, I guess life has been a miserable failure. I liked the program, though.

I won’t judge on you being a failure. Just that the IB diploma you’re so proud of is a mediocre accomplishment.

What did IB do to you that makes you this angry at program at this intensity? Did IB steal your man? I've never seen anyone so unhinged about something for no reason...

Or let me guess, you did IB and failed at getting the diploma so now you're mad at the world and want to convince everyone it's a scam to make yourself feel better about your inadequacies?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I got an IB diploma and both post regularly on DCUM and have also worked for MCPS, so by the metrics of this forum, I guess life has been a miserable failure. I liked the program, though.

I won’t judge on you being a failure. Just that the IB diploma you’re so proud of is a mediocre accomplishment.

What did IB do to you that makes you this angry at program at this intensity? Did IB steal your man? I've never seen anyone so unhinged about something for no reason...

Or let me guess, you did IB and failed at getting the diploma so now you're mad at the world and want to convince everyone it's a scam to make yourself feel better about your inadequacies?

You’re the one bringing it up and it actually is a mediocre accomplishment. I’m sure there are other things you’ve done with your life that are more worthy of being proud of.

There are questionable practices associated with IB and people deserve to hear that aspect. Content wise I’d put it below AP and DE, but comparable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I got an IB diploma and both post regularly on DCUM and have also worked for MCPS, so by the metrics of this forum, I guess life has been a miserable failure. I liked the program, though.

I won’t judge on you being a failure. Just that the IB diploma you’re so proud of is a mediocre accomplishment.

What did IB do to you that makes you this angry at program at this intensity? Did IB steal your man? I've never seen anyone so unhinged about something for no reason...

Or let me guess, you did IB and failed at getting the diploma so now you're mad at the world and want to convince everyone it's a scam to make yourself feel better about your inadequacies?

You’re the one bringing it up and it actually is a mediocre accomplishment. I’m sure there are other things you’ve done with your life that are more worthy of being proud of.

There are questionable practices associated with IB and people deserve to hear that aspect. Content wise I’d put it below AP and DE, but comparable.

1) I never did IB myself. So I'm not a product of it.

2) You're the one calling it "a mediocre accomplishment." Clearly, you have INCREDIBLY strong feelings to make that sweeping of a statement.

So fess up. What's your damage? What are you so chagrined to point that you're insulting people who did the hard work, as a high schooler, to pass and succeed in the program? Your trauma is screaming at us so we're all listening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I got an IB diploma and both post regularly on DCUM and have also worked for MCPS, so by the metrics of this forum, I guess life has been a miserable failure. I liked the program, though.

I won’t judge on you being a failure. Just that the IB diploma you’re so proud of is a mediocre accomplishment.

What on earth gave you the impression that I was "so proud" of it? I didn't say that anywhere. "Mediocre accomplishment" is pretty much exactly how I'd describe it. It was fine, I liked the program, I enjoyed high school, I certainly don't regret it, but I'd probably be in exactly the same mediocre place in life with or without it. I think it makes the most sense for kids who have to go to international schools (for curriculum continuity, if there are no IGCSEs) or kids who are bent on going to university in European systems where it's all about exam results and you need an equivalent for A-levels/Abitur/Bac/Matura, etc. The process in the US is more holistic/screwy and IB isn't necessary vs. AP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I got an IB diploma and both post regularly on DCUM and have also worked for MCPS, so by the metrics of this forum, I guess life has been a miserable failure. I liked the program, though.

I won’t judge on you being a failure. Just that the IB diploma you’re so proud of is a mediocre accomplishment.

What on earth gave you the impression that I was "so proud" of it? I didn't say that anywhere. "Mediocre accomplishment" is pretty much exactly how I'd describe it. It was fine, I liked the program, I enjoyed high school, I certainly don't regret it, but I'd probably be in exactly the same mediocre place in life with or without it. I think it makes the most sense for kids who have to go to international schools (for curriculum continuity, if there are no IGCSEs) or kids who are bent on going to university in European systems where it's all about exam results and you need an equivalent for A-levels/Abitur/Bac/Matura, etc. The process in the US is more holistic/screwy and IB isn't necessary vs. AP.

Then I don’t know what you wanted to say in your original post about being a failure by DCUM standards. We both agree it’s not actually amazing to do an IB diploma. It’s one of the ways of doing somewhat rigorous classes in high school. Compare that with the posters that claim an IB diploma significantly raise your chances of going to an Ivy. Or that it’s the best writing program, or that you can take multivariable calculus and differential equations as part of the program.

Somehow there’s a lot of misinformation and shady practices associated with IB programs. Not sure why it’s so upsetting discussing them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I did the full diploma and went to MIT. I was, by far, better prepared from a humanities perspective. I thought it was very worth it.

I also went to MIT, it’s not even relevant to the discussion, unless you are trying to slip in a humble brag. As I said earlier anecdotal evidence is useless.

How do you humble brag anonymously?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I did the full diploma and went to MIT. I was, by far, better prepared from a humanities perspective. I thought it was very worth it.

I also went to MIT, it’s not even relevant to the discussion, unless you are trying to slip in a humble brag. As I said earlier anecdotal evidence is useless.

How do you humble brag anonymously?

I know it’s weird but that’s what DCUM is used for most of the time. Do a search for “gifted and talented” to get some exquisite examples of anonymous humble brags. Just for trolling, I try to remember the most hilarious ones and work them up in the conversations at the PTA meetings. There are some definite gems in this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I got an IB diploma and both post regularly on DCUM and have also worked for MCPS, so by the metrics of this forum, I guess life has been a miserable failure. I liked the program, though.

I won’t judge on you being a failure. Just that the IB diploma you’re so proud of is a mediocre accomplishment.

What on earth gave you the impression that I was "so proud" of it? I didn't say that anywhere. "Mediocre accomplishment" is pretty much exactly how I'd describe it. It was fine, I liked the program, I enjoyed high school, I certainly don't regret it, but I'd probably be in exactly the same mediocre place in life with or without it. I think it makes the most sense for kids who have to go to international schools (for curriculum continuity, if there are no IGCSEs) or kids who are bent on going to university in European systems where it's all about exam results and you need an equivalent for A-levels/Abitur/Bac/Matura, etc. The process in the US is more holistic/screwy and IB isn't necessary vs. AP.

Then I don’t know what you wanted to say in your original post about being a failure by DCUM standards. We both agree it’s not actually amazing to do an IB diploma. It’s one of the ways of doing somewhat rigorous classes in high school. Compare that with the posters that claim an IB diploma significantly raise your chances of going to an Ivy. Or that it’s the best writing program, or that you can take multivariable calculus and differential equations as part of the program.

Somehow there’s a lot of misinformation and shady practices associated with IB programs. Not sure why it’s so upsetting discussing them.

It was a semi-sarcastic MCPS joke. Never mind.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:You also have to realize that IB will slow down the most advanced kids. You are limited in the number of HL classes and IB is limited to the last two years of high school. My most advanced kid chose AP instead of IB at one of MCPS’ school IB programs. The key was that she has AP classes in all areas - English, Calculus, History, Govt, Sci, Foreign Language.

They really limit the number of HLs you can take? Or are you saying there just isn't a way to fit in as many as a kid would want becuase each takes 2 years?

"Each student takes at least three (but not more than four) subjects at higher level, and the remaining at standard level."

https://www.ibo.org/university-admission/support-students-transition-to-higher-education/course-selection-guidance/

This is the issue with IB. Top students will take about 15 AP’s, while IB students take at most 4 high level (HL). For the extended essay, AP also has the diploma program with AP Research and AP Seminar. Few high schools offer it, but there’s also the option for online. IB is less flexible and in my view not the best choice for the top student.

IB is 11th grade and 12th grade only. During 9th grade and 10th grade, "top students" take APs. In addition, universities give credit for IB SL classes as well as IB HL classes. For example, University of Maryland College Park: https://www.transfercredit.umd.edu/plc/IBGenEd.pdf

Not sure you actually read the link you posted. Take math for example, it only gives credit for HL for Calculus I and Statistics 100, no credit for SL. The distribution of APs is not the same over all high school years. Often strong students take 10 APs in 11th and 12th, compared to 4 HL for IB. It is still in favor of AP. You can do a combination of IB and AP but it just highlights that IB is not that great of a program on its own.

There are a lot of other SL classes that UMD does give credit for. Math is not everything. Plus if you're a math person, you're taking HL, not SL.

Are AP and IB the same? No, but then nobody said they are. HL classes are two-year classes, so yes, if your goal is to have the largest number of tests, then you should do AP, not IB.

Math is not everything, but it certainly part of the foundation for any STEM career, plus some in social sciences like Economics, I’d add business as well. I’ve seen estimates that a third of college students need to pass calculus for their major, that’s not insignificant. Math is often the reason students drop out of these majors.

Compare the IB math offering with AP. For one AP is better aligned with the typical curriculum, and it follows the sequence Alg1, Geo, Alg2, Precalc, Calculus, Statistics. IB advanced math is a mix of algebra, precalculus, calculus and statistics and often there’s material repeating or not covered in previous classes. A typical strong student that completed geometry before entering high school will have taken AP Calculus and AP statistics by the end of high school.

I’d advise anyone considering IB to compare the syllabus of AP Calculus and statistics with IB advanced math. It’s hands down better for AP. Also you’d get 180 hours instruction time in AP Calculus but only 55 hours for the calculus portion of IB. Same story for statistics. IB can be harder because it has less instruction time and it moves faster, and not because it’s more rigorous.

Or they will have taken one of the 2 HL IB math classes by the end of high school.

It's true, I think, that lots of APs is a better pathway than the IB Diploma Programme for a student who only wants to focus as much as possible on math and science classes, with a minimum of humanities, reading, writing, or thinking about thinking. Now, if you asked me, I would say that even the most STEM-focused person needs to have good communication skills. And where better to start learning those skills than in high school? But you didn't ask me.

The point was that at the end of high school both students will have two years of advanced math coursework with AP route being far more rigorous.

Your arguments are so disingenuous that they hardly deserve a response. You give an cliche example of the AP student hyper focused on stem that is not interested in reading or writing well (do those students even exist?), that wouldn’t be served well in the IB program, and argue that his interest is misplaced because it wouldn’t serve him well later in life. That’s nowhere near what’s being asked on this thread!

The real question is how would AP or IB serve a typical good student, well rounded, having interests and strengths, and taking a rigorous course load that will prepare them for college, math, science, humanities, writing and reading included.

If your writing and argumentation is a byproduct of IB, I’m not impressed.

If that's the question you're asking, then the answer is that either the many-APs route, or the IB Diploma Programme route, has the potential to serve such a student well. So why are you arguing?

Because they seem to have a vendetta against IB and a personal stake in awarding AP as the be-all, end-all.

Does PP work for the College Board? The obsession is a bit odd, tbh.

Or it may be that I actually think the AP is better based on some objective metrics that matter to me.

My reasons:
- Better alignment with the US curriculum
- More rigorous for math and sciences
- more flexibility on what classes to take
- easier to transfer credit to a US university

Your reasoning is that your daughter told you it was a great preparation for UMD, because she wasn’t intimidated by writing a 3000 word assignment. Sorry, but that’s not good enough for me.

IB kids take AP Calc, and if they like STEM, they also take IB Math, which is a two year math class that delves deeper into math topics.

It's true that AP credits are more transferable to college but I would not discount the benefit that IB provides in preparing students for the more rigorous writing in college, especially for non STEM majors. But, even for STEM majors who don't like writing, IB is great because it forces them to write at a higher level. My STEM oriented DC said IB made their writing so much stronger.

Why would anyone take both AP Calculus and IB HL math? There’s so much overlapping content that it’s a waste of one period. I guess the only valid reason is that HL math is not good on its own for whatever reasons (rigor, transferable college credit etc) that the student needs to supplement with AP. Curious on why your DC chose to do both. You never hear it the other way, someone taking AP calculus BC and also wanting to supplement with IB HL Math, wonder why.

If your child only took AP math, I’m not really surprised that he didn’t learn a lot of writing from it, that’s not what the class is for. How much writing did he learn in HL Math?

If she only took IB classes for writing then she’s got nothing to say about how AP would have prepared her. Tell me if she took AP English Lang and Lit, US and European history, Economics, Psychology and didn’t teach her to write, then you may have an argument.

Whoever is posting this really has no clue what IB HL math is or how the pathways work. AP BC Calculus is the first year of the HL sequence (or if kids do BC Calc in 10th, they take MVC in 11th).
https://www2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/r-w/rmhs/ib/2023-2024-ib-course-handbook.pdf pg 19

NP. Considering IB for my DC, who is on track to finish AP Calculus BC in 10th. Can he use that class for fulfilling a requirement for the IB Diploma? We’re not at RMIB.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:You also have to realize that IB will slow down the most advanced kids. You are limited in the number of HL classes and IB is limited to the last two years of high school. My most advanced kid chose AP instead of IB at one of MCPS’ school IB programs. The key was that she has AP classes in all areas - English, Calculus, History, Govt, Sci, Foreign Language.

They really limit the number of HLs you can take? Or are you saying there just isn't a way to fit in as many as a kid would want becuase each takes 2 years?

"Each student takes at least three (but not more than four) subjects at higher level, and the remaining at standard level."

https://www.ibo.org/university-admission/support-students-transition-to-higher-education/course-selection-guidance/

This is the issue with IB. Top students will take about 15 AP’s, while IB students take at most 4 high level (HL). For the extended essay, AP also has the diploma program with AP Research and AP Seminar. Few high schools offer it, but there’s also the option for online. IB is less flexible and in my view not the best choice for the top student.

IB is 11th grade and 12th grade only. During 9th grade and 10th grade, "top students" take APs. In addition, universities give credit for IB SL classes as well as IB HL classes. For example, University of Maryland College Park: https://www.transfercredit.umd.edu/plc/IBGenEd.pdf

Not sure you actually read the link you posted. Take math for example, it only gives credit for HL for Calculus I and Statistics 100, no credit for SL. The distribution of APs is not the same over all high school years. Often strong students take 10 APs in 11th and 12th, compared to 4 HL for IB. It is still in favor of AP. You can do a combination of IB and AP but it just highlights that IB is not that great of a program on its own.

There are a lot of other SL classes that UMD does give credit for. Math is not everything. Plus if you're a math person, you're taking HL, not SL.

Are AP and IB the same? No, but then nobody said they are. HL classes are two-year classes, so yes, if your goal is to have the largest number of tests, then you should do AP, not IB.

Math is not everything, but it certainly part of the foundation for any STEM career, plus some in social sciences like Economics, I’d add business as well. I’ve seen estimates that a third of college students need to pass calculus for their major, that’s not insignificant. Math is often the reason students drop out of these majors.

Compare the IB math offering with AP. For one AP is better aligned with the typical curriculum, and it follows the sequence Alg1, Geo, Alg2, Precalc, Calculus, Statistics. IB advanced math is a mix of algebra, precalculus, calculus and statistics and often there’s material repeating or not covered in previous classes. A typical strong student that completed geometry before entering high school will have taken AP Calculus and AP statistics by the end of high school.

I’d advise anyone considering IB to compare the syllabus of AP Calculus and statistics with IB advanced math. It’s hands down better for AP. Also you’d get 180 hours instruction time in AP Calculus but only 55 hours for the calculus portion of IB. Same story for statistics. IB can be harder because it has less instruction time and it moves faster, and not because it’s more rigorous.

Or they will have taken one of the 2 HL IB math classes by the end of high school.

It's true, I think, that lots of APs is a better pathway than the IB Diploma Programme for a student who only wants to focus as much as possible on math and science classes, with a minimum of humanities, reading, writing, or thinking about thinking. Now, if you asked me, I would say that even the most STEM-focused person needs to have good communication skills. And where better to start learning those skills than in high school? But you didn't ask me.

The point was that at the end of high school both students will have two years of advanced math coursework with AP route being far more rigorous.

Your arguments are so disingenuous that they hardly deserve a response. You give an cliche example of the AP student hyper focused on stem that is not interested in reading or writing well (do those students even exist?), that wouldn’t be served well in the IB program, and argue that his interest is misplaced because it wouldn’t serve him well later in life. That’s nowhere near what’s being asked on this thread!

The real question is how would AP or IB serve a typical good student, well rounded, having interests and strengths, and taking a rigorous course load that will prepare them for college, math, science, humanities, writing and reading included.

If your writing and argumentation is a byproduct of IB, I’m not impressed.

If that's the question you're asking, then the answer is that either the many-APs route, or the IB Diploma Programme route, has the potential to serve such a student well. So why are you arguing?

Because they seem to have a vendetta against IB and a personal stake in awarding AP as the be-all, end-all.

Does PP work for the College Board? The obsession is a bit odd, tbh.

Or it may be that I actually think the AP is better based on some objective metrics that matter to me.

My reasons:
- Better alignment with the US curriculum
- More rigorous for math and sciences
- more flexibility on what classes to take
- easier to transfer credit to a US university

Your reasoning is that your daughter told you it was a great preparation for UMD, because she wasn’t intimidated by writing a 3000 word assignment. Sorry, but that’s not good enough for me.

IB kids take AP Calc, and if they like STEM, they also take IB Math, which is a two year math class that delves deeper into math topics.

It's true that AP credits are more transferable to college but I would not discount the benefit that IB provides in preparing students for the more rigorous writing in college, especially for non STEM majors. But, even for STEM majors who don't like writing, IB is great because it forces them to write at a higher level. My STEM oriented DC said IB made their writing so much stronger.

Why would anyone take both AP Calculus and IB HL math? There’s so much overlapping content that it’s a waste of one period. I guess the only valid reason is that HL math is not good on its own for whatever reasons (rigor, transferable college credit etc) that the student needs to supplement with AP. Curious on why your DC chose to do both. You never hear it the other way, someone taking AP calculus BC and also wanting to supplement with IB HL Math, wonder why.

If your child only took AP math, I’m not really surprised that he didn’t learn a lot of writing from it, that’s not what the class is for. How much writing did he learn in HL Math?

If she only took IB classes for writing then she’s got nothing to say about how AP would have prepared her. Tell me if she took AP English Lang and Lit, US and European history, Economics, Psychology and didn’t teach her to write, then you may have an argument.

Whoever is posting this really has no clue what IB HL math is or how the pathways work. AP BC Calculus is the first year of the HL sequence (or if kids do BC Calc in 10th, they take MVC in 11th).
https://www2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/r-w/rmhs/ib/2023-2024-ib-course-handbook.pdf pg 19

NP. Considering IB for my DC, who is on track to finish AP Calculus BC in 10th. Can he use that class for fulfilling a requirement for the IB Diploma? We’re not at RMIB.

No, you won’t be able to use a comparable AP class for credit in the IB diploma program. The poster you are quoting is an idiot. Ask at the high school for clarification if in doubt.

Given how advanced your student is, it probably makes less sense to enroll in the IB Diploma program because at least in math he has already taken a course comparable with the highest level in IB. He can continue with AP statistics and Multivariable for the remaining years of high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You also have to realize that IB will slow down the most advanced kids. You are limited in the number of HL classes and IB is limited to the last two years of high school. My most advanced kid chose AP instead of IB at one of MCPS’ school IB programs. The key was that she has AP classes in all areas - English, Calculus, History, Govt, Sci, Foreign Language.

They really limit the number of HLs you can take? Or are you saying there just isn't a way to fit in as many as a kid would want becuase each takes 2 years?

"Each student takes at least three (but not more than four) subjects at higher level, and the remaining at standard level."

https://www.ibo.org/university-admission/support-students-transition-to-higher-education/course-selection-guidance/

This is the issue with IB. Top students will take about 15 AP’s, while IB students take at most 4 high level (HL). For the extended essay, AP also has the diploma program with AP Research and AP Seminar. Few high schools offer it, but there’s also the option for online. IB is less flexible and in my view not the best choice for the top student.

IB is 11th grade and 12th grade only. During 9th grade and 10th grade, "top students" take APs. In addition, universities give credit for IB SL classes as well as IB HL classes. For example, University of Maryland College Park: https://www.transfercredit.umd.edu/plc/IBGenEd.pdf

Not sure you actually read the link you posted. Take math for example, it only gives credit for HL for Calculus I and Statistics 100, no credit for SL. The distribution of APs is not the same over all high school years. Often strong students take 10 APs in 11th and 12th, compared to 4 HL for IB. It is still in favor of AP. You can do a combination of IB and AP but it just highlights that IB is not that great of a program on its own.

There are a lot of other SL classes that UMD does give credit for. Math is not everything. Plus if you're a math person, you're taking HL, not SL.

Are AP and IB the same? No, but then nobody said they are. HL classes are two-year classes, so yes, if your goal is to have the largest number of tests, then you should do AP, not IB.

Math is not everything, but it certainly part of the foundation for any STEM career, plus some in social sciences like Economics, I’d add business as well. I’ve seen estimates that a third of college students need to pass calculus for their major, that’s not insignificant. Math is often the reason students drop out of these majors.

Compare the IB math offering with AP. For one AP is better aligned with the typical curriculum, and it follows the sequence Alg1, Geo, Alg2, Precalc, Calculus, Statistics. IB advanced math is a mix of algebra, precalculus, calculus and statistics and often there’s material repeating or not covered in previous classes. A typical strong student that completed geometry before entering high school will have taken AP Calculus and AP statistics by the end of high school.

I’d advise anyone considering IB to compare the syllabus of AP Calculus and statistics with IB advanced math. It’s hands down better for AP. Also you’d get 180 hours instruction time in AP Calculus but only 55 hours for the calculus portion of IB. Same story for statistics. IB can be harder because it has less instruction time and it moves faster, and not because it’s more rigorous.

Or they will have taken one of the 2 HL IB math classes by the end of high school.

It's true, I think, that lots of APs is a better pathway than the IB Diploma Programme for a student who only wants to focus as much as possible on math and science classes, with a minimum of humanities, reading, writing, or thinking about thinking. Now, if you asked me, I would say that even the most STEM-focused person needs to have good communication skills. And where better to start learning those skills than in high school? But you didn't ask me.

The point was that at the end of high school both students will have two years of advanced math coursework with AP route being far more rigorous.

Your arguments are so disingenuous that they hardly deserve a response. You give an cliche example of the AP student hyper focused on stem that is not interested in reading or writing well (do those students even exist?), that wouldn’t be served well in the IB program, and argue that his interest is misplaced because it wouldn’t serve him well later in life. That’s nowhere near what’s being asked on this thread!

The real question is how would AP or IB serve a typical good student, well rounded, having interests and strengths, and taking a rigorous course load that will prepare them for college, math, science, humanities, writing and reading included.

If your writing and argumentation is a byproduct of IB, I’m not impressed.

If that's the question you're asking, then the answer is that either the many-APs route, or the IB Diploma Programme route, has the potential to serve such a student well. So why are you arguing?

Because they seem to have a vendetta against IB and a personal stake in awarding AP as the be-all, end-all.

Does PP work for the College Board? The obsession is a bit odd, tbh.

Or it may be that I actually think the AP is better based on some objective metrics that matter to me.

My reasons:
- Better alignment with the US curriculum
- More rigorous for math and sciences
- more flexibility on what classes to take
- easier to transfer credit to a US university

Your reasoning is that your daughter told you it was a great preparation for UMD, because she wasn’t intimidated by writing a 3000 word assignment. Sorry, but that’s not good enough for me.

IB kids take AP Calc, and if they like STEM, they also take IB Math, which is a two year math class that delves deeper into math topics.

It's true that AP credits are more transferable to college but I would not discount the benefit that IB provides in preparing students for the more rigorous writing in college, especially for non STEM majors. But, even for STEM majors who don't like writing, IB is great because it forces them to write at a higher level. My STEM oriented DC said IB made their writing so much stronger.

Why would anyone take both AP Calculus and IB HL math? There’s so much overlapping content that it’s a waste of one period. I guess the only valid reason is that HL math is not good on its own for whatever reasons (rigor, transferable college credit etc) that the student needs to supplement with AP. Curious on why your DC chose to do both. You never hear it the other way, someone taking AP calculus BC and also wanting to supplement with IB HL Math, wonder why.

If your child only took AP math, I’m not really surprised that he didn’t learn a lot of writing from it, that’s not what the class is for. How much writing did he learn in HL Math?

If she only took IB classes for writing then she’s got nothing to say about how AP would have prepared her. Tell me if she took AP English Lang and Lit, US and European history, Economics, Psychology and didn’t teach her to write, then you may have an argument.

Whoever is posting this really has no clue what IB HL math is or how the pathways work. AP BC Calculus is the first year of the HL sequence (or if kids do BC Calc in 10th, they take MVC in 11th).
https://www2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/r-w/rmhs/ib/2023-2024-ib-course-handbook.pdf pg 19

NP. Considering IB for my DC, who is on track to finish AP Calculus BC in 10th. Can he use that class for fulfilling a requirement for the IB Diploma? We’re not at RMIB.

No, you won’t be able to use a comparable AP class for credit in the IB diploma program. The poster you are quoting is an idiot. Ask at the high school for clarification if in doubt.

Given how advanced your student is, it probably makes less sense to enroll in the IB Diploma program because at least in math he has already taken a course comparable with the highest level in IB. He can continue with AP statistics and Multivariable for the remaining years of high school.

No he hasn't. AP Calculus BC is not IB Mathematics: analysis and approaches HL, and IB Mathematics: analysis and approaches HL is not AP Calculus BC.

However, the PP is correct that if your child did the IB Diploma Programme, your child would not be able to use AP Calculus BC to fulfill the IB Diploma Programme for math. The IB Diploma Programme is not flexible.

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Anonymous wrote:You also have to realize that IB will slow down the most advanced kids. You are limited in the number of HL classes and IB is limited to the last two years of high school. My most advanced kid chose AP instead of IB at one of MCPS’ school IB programs. The key was that she has AP classes in all areas - English, Calculus, History, Govt, Sci, Foreign Language.

They really limit the number of HLs you can take? Or are you saying there just isn't a way to fit in as many as a kid would want becuase each takes 2 years?

"Each student takes at least three (but not more than four) subjects at higher level, and the remaining at standard level."

https://www.ibo.org/university-admission/support-students-transition-to-higher-education/course-selection-guidance/

This is the issue with IB. Top students will take about 15 AP’s, while IB students take at most 4 high level (HL). For the extended essay, AP also has the diploma program with AP Research and AP Seminar. Few high schools offer it, but there’s also the option for online. IB is less flexible and in my view not the best choice for the top student.

IB is 11th grade and 12th grade only. During 9th grade and 10th grade, "top students" take APs. In addition, universities give credit for IB SL classes as well as IB HL classes. For example, University of Maryland College Park: https://www.transfercredit.umd.edu/plc/IBGenEd.pdf

Not sure you actually read the link you posted. Take math for example, it only gives credit for HL for Calculus I and Statistics 100, no credit for SL. The distribution of APs is not the same over all high school years. Often strong students take 10 APs in 11th and 12th, compared to 4 HL for IB. It is still in favor of AP. You can do a combination of IB and AP but it just highlights that IB is not that great of a program on its own.

There are a lot of other SL classes that UMD does give credit for. Math is not everything. Plus if you're a math person, you're taking HL, not SL.

Are AP and IB the same? No, but then nobody said they are. HL classes are two-year classes, so yes, if your goal is to have the largest number of tests, then you should do AP, not IB.

Math is not everything, but it certainly part of the foundation for any STEM career, plus some in social sciences like Economics, I’d add business as well. I’ve seen estimates that a third of college students need to pass calculus for their major, that’s not insignificant. Math is often the reason students drop out of these majors.

Compare the IB math offering with AP. For one AP is better aligned with the typical curriculum, and it follows the sequence Alg1, Geo, Alg2, Precalc, Calculus, Statistics. IB advanced math is a mix of algebra, precalculus, calculus and statistics and often there’s material repeating or not covered in previous classes. A typical strong student that completed geometry before entering high school will have taken AP Calculus and AP statistics by the end of high school.

I’d advise anyone considering IB to compare the syllabus of AP Calculus and statistics with IB advanced math. It’s hands down better for AP. Also you’d get 180 hours instruction time in AP Calculus but only 55 hours for the calculus portion of IB. Same story for statistics. IB can be harder because it has less instruction time and it moves faster, and not because it’s more rigorous.

Or they will have taken one of the 2 HL IB math classes by the end of high school.

It's true, I think, that lots of APs is a better pathway than the IB Diploma Programme for a student who only wants to focus as much as possible on math and science classes, with a minimum of humanities, reading, writing, or thinking about thinking. Now, if you asked me, I would say that even the most STEM-focused person needs to have good communication skills. And where better to start learning those skills than in high school? But you didn't ask me.

The point was that at the end of high school both students will have two years of advanced math coursework with AP route being far more rigorous.

Your arguments are so disingenuous that they hardly deserve a response. You give an cliche example of the AP student hyper focused on stem that is not interested in reading or writing well (do those students even exist?), that wouldn’t be served well in the IB program, and argue that his interest is misplaced because it wouldn’t serve him well later in life. That’s nowhere near what’s being asked on this thread!

The real question is how would AP or IB serve a typical good student, well rounded, having interests and strengths, and taking a rigorous course load that will prepare them for college, math, science, humanities, writing and reading included.

If your writing and argumentation is a byproduct of IB, I’m not impressed.

If that's the question you're asking, then the answer is that either the many-APs route, or the IB Diploma Programme route, has the potential to serve such a student well. So why are you arguing?

Because they seem to have a vendetta against IB and a personal stake in awarding AP as the be-all, end-all.

Does PP work for the College Board? The obsession is a bit odd, tbh.

Or it may be that I actually think the AP is better based on some objective metrics that matter to me.

My reasons:
- Better alignment with the US curriculum
- More rigorous for math and sciences
- more flexibility on what classes to take
- easier to transfer credit to a US university

Your reasoning is that your daughter told you it was a great preparation for UMD, because she wasn’t intimidated by writing a 3000 word assignment. Sorry, but that’s not good enough for me.

IB kids take AP Calc, and if they like STEM, they also take IB Math, which is a two year math class that delves deeper into math topics.

It's true that AP credits are more transferable to college but I would not discount the benefit that IB provides in preparing students for the more rigorous writing in college, especially for non STEM majors. But, even for STEM majors who don't like writing, IB is great because it forces them to write at a higher level. My STEM oriented DC said IB made their writing so much stronger.

Why would anyone take both AP Calculus and IB HL math? There’s so much overlapping content that it’s a waste of one period. I guess the only valid reason is that HL math is not good on its own for whatever reasons (rigor, transferable college credit etc) that the student needs to supplement with AP. Curious on why your DC chose to do both. You never hear it the other way, someone taking AP calculus BC and also wanting to supplement with IB HL Math, wonder why.

If your child only took AP math, I’m not really surprised that he didn’t learn a lot of writing from it, that’s not what the class is for. How much writing did he learn in HL Math?

If she only took IB classes for writing then she’s got nothing to say about how AP would have prepared her. Tell me if she took AP English Lang and Lit, US and European history, Economics, Psychology and didn’t teach her to write, then you may have an argument.

Whoever is posting this really has no clue what IB HL math is or how the pathways work. AP BC Calculus is the first year of the HL sequence (or if kids do BC Calc in 10th, they take MVC in 11th).
https://www2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/r-w/rmhs/ib/2023-2024-ib-course-handbook.pdf pg 19

NP. Considering IB for my DC, who is on track to finish AP Calculus BC in 10th. Can he use that class for fulfilling a requirement for the IB Diploma? We’re not at RMIB.

No, you won’t be able to use a comparable AP class for credit in the IB diploma program. The poster you are quoting is an idiot. Ask at the high school for clarification if in doubt.

Given how advanced your student is, it probably makes less sense to enroll in the IB Diploma program because at least in math he has already taken a course comparable with the highest level in IB. He can continue with AP statistics and Multivariable for the remaining years of high school.

OMG. Again, don’t listen to this anti-IB poster for information about IB. You don’t “fulfill a credit” in IB. You take a course and then take an IB exam.

PP - find out if your school offers the HL level of the IB Mathematics Analysis and Approaches course. Also find out if they offer MVC. At RM, there’s always a group of students who take BC Calculus in 10th, MVC in 11th, and the second year of IB Math HL in 12th (which has an interesting array of other mathematical topics). Then they take the HL exam in 12th.
(This pathway is in RM’s IB course bulletin.)

If it’s not clear what you school offers or what pathway is for kids like yours, reach out to the math resource teacher. They likely have a pathway, but since it isn’t the main one it’s not in their course bulletin. Whether or not to join the IBDP depends on other goals your student has in conjunction with the math pathway.

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Anonymous wrote:You also have to realize that IB will slow down the most advanced kids. You are limited in the number of HL classes and IB is limited to the last two years of high school. My most advanced kid chose AP instead of IB at one of MCPS’ school IB programs. The key was that she has AP classes in all areas - English, Calculus, History, Govt, Sci, Foreign Language.

They really limit the number of HLs you can take? Or are you saying there just isn't a way to fit in as many as a kid would want becuase each takes 2 years?

"Each student takes at least three (but not more than four) subjects at higher level, and the remaining at standard level."

https://www.ibo.org/university-admission/support-students-transition-to-higher-education/course-selection-guidance/

This is the issue with IB. Top students will take about 15 AP’s, while IB students take at most 4 high level (HL). For the extended essay, AP also has the diploma program with AP Research and AP Seminar. Few high schools offer it, but there’s also the option for online. IB is less flexible and in my view not the best choice for the top student.

IB is 11th grade and 12th grade only. During 9th grade and 10th grade, "top students" take APs. In addition, universities give credit for IB SL classes as well as IB HL classes. For example, University of Maryland College Park: https://www.transfercredit.umd.edu/plc/IBGenEd.pdf

Not sure you actually read the link you posted. Take math for example, it only gives credit for HL for Calculus I and Statistics 100, no credit for SL. The distribution of APs is not the same over all high school years. Often strong students take 10 APs in 11th and 12th, compared to 4 HL for IB. It is still in favor of AP. You can do a combination of IB and AP but it just highlights that IB is not that great of a program on its own.

There are a lot of other SL classes that UMD does give credit for. Math is not everything. Plus if you're a math person, you're taking HL, not SL.

Are AP and IB the same? No, but then nobody said they are. HL classes are two-year classes, so yes, if your goal is to have the largest number of tests, then you should do AP, not IB.

Math is not everything, but it certainly part of the foundation for any STEM career, plus some in social sciences like Economics, I’d add business as well. I’ve seen estimates that a third of college students need to pass calculus for their major, that’s not insignificant. Math is often the reason students drop out of these majors.

Compare the IB math offering with AP. For one AP is better aligned with the typical curriculum, and it follows the sequence Alg1, Geo, Alg2, Precalc, Calculus, Statistics. IB advanced math is a mix of algebra, precalculus, calculus and statistics and often there’s material repeating or not covered in previous classes. A typical strong student that completed geometry before entering high school will have taken AP Calculus and AP statistics by the end of high school.

I’d advise anyone considering IB to compare the syllabus of AP Calculus and statistics with IB advanced math. It’s hands down better for AP. Also you’d get 180 hours instruction time in AP Calculus but only 55 hours for the calculus portion of IB. Same story for statistics. IB can be harder because it has less instruction time and it moves faster, and not because it’s more rigorous.

Or they will have taken one of the 2 HL IB math classes by the end of high school.

It's true, I think, that lots of APs is a better pathway than the IB Diploma Programme for a student who only wants to focus as much as possible on math and science classes, with a minimum of humanities, reading, writing, or thinking about thinking. Now, if you asked me, I would say that even the most STEM-focused person needs to have good communication skills. And where better to start learning those skills than in high school? But you didn't ask me.

The point was that at the end of high school both students will have two years of advanced math coursework with AP route being far more rigorous.

Your arguments are so disingenuous that they hardly deserve a response. You give an cliche example of the AP student hyper focused on stem that is not interested in reading or writing well (do those students even exist?), that wouldn’t be served well in the IB program, and argue that his interest is misplaced because it wouldn’t serve him well later in life. That’s nowhere near what’s being asked on this thread!

The real question is how would AP or IB serve a typical good student, well rounded, having interests and strengths, and taking a rigorous course load that will prepare them for college, math, science, humanities, writing and reading included.

If your writing and argumentation is a byproduct of IB, I’m not impressed.

If that's the question you're asking, then the answer is that either the many-APs route, or the IB Diploma Programme route, has the potential to serve such a student well. So why are you arguing?

Because they seem to have a vendetta against IB and a personal stake in awarding AP as the be-all, end-all.

Does PP work for the College Board? The obsession is a bit odd, tbh.

Or it may be that I actually think the AP is better based on some objective metrics that matter to me.

My reasons:
- Better alignment with the US curriculum
- More rigorous for math and sciences
- more flexibility on what classes to take
- easier to transfer credit to a US university

Your reasoning is that your daughter told you it was a great preparation for UMD, because she wasn’t intimidated by writing a 3000 word assignment. Sorry, but that’s not good enough for me.

IB kids take AP Calc, and if they like STEM, they also take IB Math, which is a two year math class that delves deeper into math topics.

It's true that AP credits are more transferable to college but I would not discount the benefit that IB provides in preparing students for the more rigorous writing in college, especially for non STEM majors. But, even for STEM majors who don't like writing, IB is great because it forces them to write at a higher level. My STEM oriented DC said IB made their writing so much stronger.

Why would anyone take both AP Calculus and IB HL math? There’s so much overlapping content that it’s a waste of one period. I guess the only valid reason is that HL math is not good on its own for whatever reasons (rigor, transferable college credit etc) that the student needs to supplement with AP. Curious on why your DC chose to do both. You never hear it the other way, someone taking AP calculus BC and also wanting to supplement with IB HL Math, wonder why.

If your child only took AP math, I’m not really surprised that he didn’t learn a lot of writing from it, that’s not what the class is for. How much writing did he learn in HL Math?

If she only took IB classes for writing then she’s got nothing to say about how AP would have prepared her. Tell me if she took AP English Lang and Lit, US and European history, Economics, Psychology and didn’t teach her to write, then you may have an argument.

Whoever is posting this really has no clue what IB HL math is or how the pathways work. AP BC Calculus is the first year of the HL sequence (or if kids do BC Calc in 10th, they take MVC in 11th).
https://www2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/r-w/rmhs/ib/2023-2024-ib-course-handbook.pdf pg 19

NP. Considering IB for my DC, who is on track to finish AP Calculus BC in 10th. Can he use that class for fulfilling a requirement for the IB Diploma? We’re not at RMIB.

No, you won’t be able to use a comparable AP class for credit in the IB diploma program. The poster you are quoting is an idiot. Ask at the high school for clarification if in doubt.

Given how advanced your student is, it probably makes less sense to enroll in the IB Diploma program because at least in math he has already taken a course comparable with the highest level in IB. He can continue with AP statistics and Multivariable for the remaining years of high school.

No he hasn't. AP Calculus BC is not IB Mathematics: analysis and approaches HL, and IB Mathematics: analysis and approaches HL is not AP Calculus BC.

However, the PP is correct that if your child did the IB Diploma Programme, your child would not be able to use AP Calculus BC to fulfill the IB Diploma Programme for math. The IB Diploma Programme is not flexible.

Nobody claimed AP Calculus is the same as IB Analysis, I said they are comparable, meaning covering similar material.

IB analysis has topics from Algebra, Precalculus, Statistics and Calculus. If a student completes AP Calculus BC, it’s safe to assume they mastered most of the topics in IB Analysis with the possible exception of a small subset of topics from Statistics. Most of the SL Statistics is indeed covered in the regular high school classes. The HL Statistics part is definitely weaker than AP Statistics.

Link to HL analysis syllabus:
https://holyheart.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Mathematics-Analysis-and-Approaches-Guide-first-assessment-2021.pdf

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:You also have to realize that IB will slow down the most advanced kids. You are limited in the number of HL classes and IB is limited to the last two years of high school. My most advanced kid chose AP instead of IB at one of MCPS’ school IB programs. The key was that she has AP classes in all areas - English, Calculus, History, Govt, Sci, Foreign Language.

They really limit the number of HLs you can take? Or are you saying there just isn't a way to fit in as many as a kid would want becuase each takes 2 years?

"Each student takes at least three (but not more than four) subjects at higher level, and the remaining at standard level."

https://www.ibo.org/university-admission/support-students-transition-to-higher-education/course-selection-guidance/

This is the issue with IB. Top students will take about 15 AP’s, while IB students take at most 4 high level (HL). For the extended essay, AP also has the diploma program with AP Research and AP Seminar. Few high schools offer it, but there’s also the option for online. IB is less flexible and in my view not the best choice for the top student.

IB is 11th grade and 12th grade only. During 9th grade and 10th grade, "top students" take APs. In addition, universities give credit for IB SL classes as well as IB HL classes. For example, University of Maryland College Park: https://www.transfercredit.umd.edu/plc/IBGenEd.pdf

Not sure you actually read the link you posted. Take math for example, it only gives credit for HL for Calculus I and Statistics 100, no credit for SL. The distribution of APs is not the same over all high school years. Often strong students take 10 APs in 11th and 12th, compared to 4 HL for IB. It is still in favor of AP. You can do a combination of IB and AP but it just highlights that IB is not that great of a program on its own.

There are a lot of other SL classes that UMD does give credit for. Math is not everything. Plus if you're a math person, you're taking HL, not SL.

Are AP and IB the same? No, but then nobody said they are. HL classes are two-year classes, so yes, if your goal is to have the largest number of tests, then you should do AP, not IB.

Math is not everything, but it certainly part of the foundation for any STEM career, plus some in social sciences like Economics, I’d add business as well. I’ve seen estimates that a third of college students need to pass calculus for their major, that’s not insignificant. Math is often the reason students drop out of these majors.

Compare the IB math offering with AP. For one AP is better aligned with the typical curriculum, and it follows the sequence Alg1, Geo, Alg2, Precalc, Calculus, Statistics. IB advanced math is a mix of algebra, precalculus, calculus and statistics and often there’s material repeating or not covered in previous classes. A typical strong student that completed geometry before entering high school will have taken AP Calculus and AP statistics by the end of high school.

I’d advise anyone considering IB to compare the syllabus of AP Calculus and statistics with IB advanced math. It’s hands down better for AP. Also you’d get 180 hours instruction time in AP Calculus but only 55 hours for the calculus portion of IB. Same story for statistics. IB can be harder because it has less instruction time and it moves faster, and not because it’s more rigorous.

Or they will have taken one of the 2 HL IB math classes by the end of high school.

It's true, I think, that lots of APs is a better pathway than the IB Diploma Programme for a student who only wants to focus as much as possible on math and science classes, with a minimum of humanities, reading, writing, or thinking about thinking. Now, if you asked me, I would say that even the most STEM-focused person needs to have good communication skills. And where better to start learning those skills than in high school? But you didn't ask me.

The point was that at the end of high school both students will have two years of advanced math coursework with AP route being far more rigorous.

Your arguments are so disingenuous that they hardly deserve a response. You give an cliche example of the AP student hyper focused on stem that is not interested in reading or writing well (do those students even exist?), that wouldn’t be served well in the IB program, and argue that his interest is misplaced because it wouldn’t serve him well later in life. That’s nowhere near what’s being asked on this thread!

The real question is how would AP or IB serve a typical good student, well rounded, having interests and strengths, and taking a rigorous course load that will prepare them for college, math, science, humanities, writing and reading included.

If your writing and argumentation is a byproduct of IB, I’m not impressed.

If that's the question you're asking, then the answer is that either the many-APs route, or the IB Diploma Programme route, has the potential to serve such a student well. So why are you arguing?

Because they seem to have a vendetta against IB and a personal stake in awarding AP as the be-all, end-all.

Does PP work for the College Board? The obsession is a bit odd, tbh.

Or it may be that I actually think the AP is better based on some objective metrics that matter to me.

My reasons:
- Better alignment with the US curriculum
- More rigorous for math and sciences
- more flexibility on what classes to take
- easier to transfer credit to a US university

Your reasoning is that your daughter told you it was a great preparation for UMD, because she wasn’t intimidated by writing a 3000 word assignment. Sorry, but that’s not good enough for me.

IB kids take AP Calc, and if they like STEM, they also take IB Math, which is a two year math class that delves deeper into math topics.

It's true that AP credits are more transferable to college but I would not discount the benefit that IB provides in preparing students for the more rigorous writing in college, especially for non STEM majors. But, even for STEM majors who don't like writing, IB is great because it forces them to write at a higher level. My STEM oriented DC said IB made their writing so much stronger.

Why would anyone take both AP Calculus and IB HL math? There’s so much overlapping content that it’s a waste of one period. I guess the only valid reason is that HL math is not good on its own for whatever reasons (rigor, transferable college credit etc) that the student needs to supplement with AP. Curious on why your DC chose to do both. You never hear it the other way, someone taking AP calculus BC and also wanting to supplement with IB HL Math, wonder why.

If your child only took AP math, I’m not really surprised that he didn’t learn a lot of writing from it, that’s not what the class is for. How much writing did he learn in HL Math?

If she only took IB classes for writing then she’s got nothing to say about how AP would have prepared her. Tell me if she took AP English Lang and Lit, US and European history, Economics, Psychology and didn’t teach her to write, then you may have an argument.

Whoever is posting this really has no clue what IB HL math is or how the pathways work. AP BC Calculus is the first year of the HL sequence (or if kids do BC Calc in 10th, they take MVC in 11th).
https://www2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/r-w/rmhs/ib/2023-2024-ib-course-handbook.pdf pg 19

NP. Considering IB for my DC, who is on track to finish AP Calculus BC in 10th. Can he use that class for fulfilling a requirement for the IB Diploma? We’re not at RMIB.

No, you won’t be able to use a comparable AP class for credit in the IB diploma program. The poster you are quoting is an idiot. Ask at the high school for clarification if in doubt.

Given how advanced your student is, it probably makes less sense to enroll in the IB Diploma program because at least in math he has already taken a course comparable with the highest level in IB. He can continue with AP statistics and Multivariable for the remaining years of high school.

OMG. Again, don’t listen to this anti-IB poster for information about IB. You don’t “fulfill a credit” in IB. You take a course and then take an IB exam.

PP - find out if your school offers the HL level of the IB Mathematics Analysis and Approaches course. Also find out if they offer MVC. At RM, there’s always a group of students who take BC Calculus in 10th, MVC in 11th, and the second year of IB Math HL in 12th (which has an interesting array of other mathematical topics). Then they take the HL exam in 12th.
(This pathway is in RM’s IB course bulletin.)

If it’s not clear what you school offers or what pathway is for kids like yours, reach out to the math resource teacher. They likely have a pathway, but since it isn’t the main one it’s not in their course bulletin. Whether or not to join the IBDP depends on other goals your student has in conjunction with the math pathway.

A simple way to think about it would be, joining IB is like joining a cult. You have to do what they say in the order they say it.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:You also have to realize that IB will slow down the most advanced kids. You are limited in the number of HL classes and IB is limited to the last two years of high school. My most advanced kid chose AP instead of IB at one of MCPS’ school IB programs. The key was that she has AP classes in all areas - English, Calculus, History, Govt, Sci, Foreign Language.

They really limit the number of HLs you can take? Or are you saying there just isn't a way to fit in as many as a kid would want becuase each takes 2 years?

"Each student takes at least three (but not more than four) subjects at higher level, and the remaining at standard level."

https://www.ibo.org/university-admission/support-students-transition-to-higher-education/course-selection-guidance/

This is the issue with IB. Top students will take about 15 AP’s, while IB students take at most 4 high level (HL). For the extended essay, AP also has the diploma program with AP Research and AP Seminar. Few high schools offer it, but there’s also the option for online. IB is less flexible and in my view not the best choice for the top student.

IB is 11th grade and 12th grade only. During 9th grade and 10th grade, "top students" take APs. In addition, universities give credit for IB SL classes as well as IB HL classes. For example, University of Maryland College Park: https://www.transfercredit.umd.edu/plc/IBGenEd.pdf

Not sure you actually read the link you posted. Take math for example, it only gives credit for HL for Calculus I and Statistics 100, no credit for SL. The distribution of APs is not the same over all high school years. Often strong students take 10 APs in 11th and 12th, compared to 4 HL for IB. It is still in favor of AP. You can do a combination of IB and AP but it just highlights that IB is not that great of a program on its own.

There are a lot of other SL classes that UMD does give credit for. Math is not everything. Plus if you're a math person, you're taking HL, not SL.

Are AP and IB the same? No, but then nobody said they are. HL classes are two-year classes, so yes, if your goal is to have the largest number of tests, then you should do AP, not IB.

Math is not everything, but it certainly part of the foundation for any STEM career, plus some in social sciences like Economics, I’d add business as well. I’ve seen estimates that a third of college students need to pass calculus for their major, that’s not insignificant. Math is often the reason students drop out of these majors.

Compare the IB math offering with AP. For one AP is better aligned with the typical curriculum, and it follows the sequence Alg1, Geo, Alg2, Precalc, Calculus, Statistics. IB advanced math is a mix of algebra, precalculus, calculus and statistics and often there’s material repeating or not covered in previous classes. A typical strong student that completed geometry before entering high school will have taken AP Calculus and AP statistics by the end of high school.

I’d advise anyone considering IB to compare the syllabus of AP Calculus and statistics with IB advanced math. It’s hands down better for AP. Also you’d get 180 hours instruction time in AP Calculus but only 55 hours for the calculus portion of IB. Same story for statistics. IB can be harder because it has less instruction time and it moves faster, and not because it’s more rigorous.

Or they will have taken one of the 2 HL IB math classes by the end of high school.

It's true, I think, that lots of APs is a better pathway than the IB Diploma Programme for a student who only wants to focus as much as possible on math and science classes, with a minimum of humanities, reading, writing, or thinking about thinking. Now, if you asked me, I would say that even the most STEM-focused person needs to have good communication skills. And where better to start learning those skills than in high school? But you didn't ask me.

The point was that at the end of high school both students will have two years of advanced math coursework with AP route being far more rigorous.

Your arguments are so disingenuous that they hardly deserve a response. You give an cliche example of the AP student hyper focused on stem that is not interested in reading or writing well (do those students even exist?), that wouldn’t be served well in the IB program, and argue that his interest is misplaced because it wouldn’t serve him well later in life. That’s nowhere near what’s being asked on this thread!

The real question is how would AP or IB serve a typical good student, well rounded, having interests and strengths, and taking a rigorous course load that will prepare them for college, math, science, humanities, writing and reading included.

If your writing and argumentation is a byproduct of IB, I’m not impressed.

If that's the question you're asking, then the answer is that either the many-APs route, or the IB Diploma Programme route, has the potential to serve such a student well. So why are you arguing?

Because they seem to have a vendetta against IB and a personal stake in awarding AP as the be-all, end-all.

Does PP work for the College Board? The obsession is a bit odd, tbh.

Or it may be that I actually think the AP is better based on some objective metrics that matter to me.

My reasons:
- Better alignment with the US curriculum
- More rigorous for math and sciences
- more flexibility on what classes to take
- easier to transfer credit to a US university

Your reasoning is that your daughter told you it was a great preparation for UMD, because she wasn’t intimidated by writing a 3000 word assignment. Sorry, but that’s not good enough for me.

IB kids take AP Calc, and if they like STEM, they also take IB Math, which is a two year math class that delves deeper into math topics.

It's true that AP credits are more transferable to college but I would not discount the benefit that IB provides in preparing students for the more rigorous writing in college, especially for non STEM majors. But, even for STEM majors who don't like writing, IB is great because it forces them to write at a higher level. My STEM oriented DC said IB made their writing so much stronger.

Why would anyone take both AP Calculus and IB HL math? There’s so much overlapping content that it’s a waste of one period. I guess the only valid reason is that HL math is not good on its own for whatever reasons (rigor, transferable college credit etc) that the student needs to supplement with AP. Curious on why your DC chose to do both. You never hear it the other way, someone taking AP calculus BC and also wanting to supplement with IB HL Math, wonder why.

If your child only took AP math, I’m not really surprised that he didn’t learn a lot of writing from it, that’s not what the class is for. How much writing did he learn in HL Math?

If she only took IB classes for writing then she’s got nothing to say about how AP would have prepared her. Tell me if she took AP English Lang and Lit, US and European history, Economics, Psychology and didn’t teach her to write, then you may have an argument.

Whoever is posting this really has no clue what IB HL math is or how the pathways work. AP BC Calculus is the first year of the HL sequence (or if kids do BC Calc in 10th, they take MVC in 11th).
https://www2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/r-w/rmhs/ib/2023-2024-ib-course-handbook.pdf pg 19

NP. Considering IB for my DC, who is on track to finish AP Calculus BC in 10th. Can he use that class for fulfilling a requirement for the IB Diploma? We’re not at RMIB.

No, you won’t be able to use a comparable AP class for credit in the IB diploma program. The poster you are quoting is an idiot. Ask at the high school for clarification if in doubt.

Given how advanced your student is, it probably makes less sense to enroll in the IB Diploma program because at least in math he has already taken a course comparable with the highest level in IB. He can continue with AP statistics and Multivariable for the remaining years of high school.

OMG. Again, don’t listen to this anti-IB poster for information about IB. You don’t “fulfill a credit” in IB. You take a course and then take an IB exam.

PP - find out if your school offers the HL level of the IB Mathematics Analysis and Approaches course. Also find out if they offer MVC. At RM, there’s always a group of students who take BC Calculus in 10th, MVC in 11th, and the second year of IB Math HL in 12th (which has an interesting array of other mathematical topics). Then they take the HL exam in 12th.
(This pathway is in RM’s IB course bulletin.)

If it’s not clear what you school offers or what pathway is for kids like yours, reach out to the math resource teacher. They likely have a pathway, but since it isn’t the main one it’s not in their course bulletin. Whether or not to join the IBDP depends on other goals your student has in conjunction with the math pathway.

A simple way to think about it would be, joining IB is like joining a cult. You have to do what they say in the order they say it.

LOL. Not quite.

I have a kid at RMIB and going through the program is most definitely teaching her how to analyze information and think for herself.