Active Military Driving $80K+ cars?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Well we have a DoD budget of over $700 Billion a year so that explains a lot of it. An O6 Captain(18 years service) in the Navy grosses $138k plus a housing allowance with great heath/dental benefits. And the 4 years at the Academy counts towards service. After 20 years of service they will get a pension and can get a job in the private sector.

In The DC metro area you see the expensive cars driven by officer families. Not the case with enlisted personnel. You do your 20 years in the officer cadre and then move to the private sector. You never accrued educational debt so it is easier to spend on quality cars. Plus with a generous pension, they do not have to save/invest as ordinary citizens. I'm the son of a retired Navy Captain.

Are there really that many people that become an O6 after just 14 years of service, after being in the academy for 4 years? That's a 36 year old Captain!
My Dh is a retired Marine officer, and most people we knew, after 14 years of actual service were a couple years into being an 04. My Dh retired 10 years ago, have things really changed that much?

An O4 w/20 would still get like 115k a year in pay, plus they will also get over 40k a year in Base Allocated Housing here.

So a person in their early 40s with a college degree that has worked for the same employer for 20 years is making $165/year in the DC area. Is that really considered high income?

It's not the same--the officer's pay is equivalent to way more than 165k in the private sector. That's because the Base Allocated Housing is nontaxable, plus most military do not pay state income tax b/c of where their home of record is. And there are additional tax breaks for military.

Plus there is the pension and ohter benefits.

And then you add in the fact many have spouses that work, and the spouse does not pay state income tax either because they can claim the same home of record.

Not my experience that "most do not pay state income tax." For most of my Dh's career we lived in our home state of record.
Still what exactly is "way more than $165k" and is it a high income for someone with a degree and 20 years of experience with the same employer?

Then you did it wrong. A stent in Alaska is really the key to maximizing state income tax benefits

Very few (if any) opportunities for a Marine officer to get stationed in Alaska, especially with my Dh's MOS. Our state of record was CA, where there were many billets he could be placed (and was placed.)

Marines is kind of an exception because so many are in CA and North Carolina. More active duty army (and air force) are stationed in Texas than anywhere else, and that's a state w/no income tax. Huge number of air force and navy in Florida, too.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Family money
Spouse has a high income

Also, many active military claim residence in FL and the like, and pay no property taxes

This but officers can make good money. They get a lot for a housing allowance on top of pay.

They also have far less expenses, too, in general. Besides housing, they typically will not spend as much on medical, state income tax, college savings (GI bill plus in-state in their state of residence), retirement, and a whole lot more.

This is, of course, even more true for dual-military families, especially dual-officer.

Also no educational debt.

And throw in lower costs for resources available on base — from seriously lower prices on groceries, shopping at exchanges, recreational opportunities…. It adds up nicely.

Crazy discounts—Epic ski passes for $150 or something ridiculous like that—and cheap Disney tickets too.

Those Disney tickets aren’t that cheap! It’s a something like a 10% discount on the 4 and 5 day passes. It’s nice, but certainly not mind-blowing.

Yep. The Disney military hotel discount isn't worth it either. I went a couple months ago and compared the same room, same dates and the standard promotion Disney was offering to everyone at the time was cheaper than the military discount rate.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Interesting thread. Our HHI is about 800k (3 kids, mid 40s, no pensions) and I simply can't imagine buying a 100k vehicle.

Life is very expensive around here, and there isn't much left after college saving, retirement saving, and all the other day-to-day expenses.

That's because you have an expensive house, travel and other things. We have 1/4 your income and drive a $50K car and we could easily buy another paying cash. Life is expensive when you make it expensive. For the rest of us, it's manageable. I could not imagine on $800k screaming poverty. You can easily afford an 80K car and pay cash.

This. I bet PP easily spends $25k a year on vacations. That's two $80,000 car payments right there.

We don’t vacation and our house is under $400k that we made a priority to recently pay off. Our only big expense is kids. It’s all about lifestyle choices. We live way under our means.

[Anonymous]

I once nannied for a family, stay at home mom, air force dad. The mom said she bought the husband's truck, as well as put the down payment on the house. Turns out she has a share in her grandfather's successful business. She's divorced now, but still doesn't have a job. Lucky her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Family money
Spouse has a high income

Also, many active military claim residence in FL and the like, and pay no property taxes

This but officers can make good money. They get a lot for a housing allowance on top of pay.

They also have far less expenses, too, in general. Besides housing, they typically will not spend as much on medical, state income tax, college savings (GI bill plus in-state in their state of residence), retirement, and a whole lot more.

This is, of course, even more true for dual-military families, especially dual-officer.

Also no educational debt.

And throw in lower costs for resources available on base — from seriously lower prices on groceries, shopping at exchanges, recreational opportunities…. It adds up nicely.

Crazy discounts—Epic ski passes for $150 or something ridiculous like that—and cheap Disney tickets too.

Those Disney tickets aren’t that cheap! It’s a something like a 10% discount on the 4 and 5 day passes. It’s nice, but certainly not mind-blowing.

Yep. The Disney military hotel discount isn't worth it either. I went a couple months ago and compared the same room, same dates and the standard promotion Disney was offering to everyone at the time was cheaper than the military discount rate.

It depends on when you go. We haven’t gone in years but I was paying $100-50 for a value or moderate room. Used frequent flyer miles for plane. Plus military tickets and car rental. You have to get the military tickets on base or at shades of green. Shades of green was always much more. We’d go very off season the fall. If you go holidays, summer or spring it’s much more. Most of the other tickets are not worth a trip to the base.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Well we have a DoD budget of over $700 Billion a year so that explains a lot of it. An O6 Captain(18 years service) in the Navy grosses $138k plus a housing allowance with great heath/dental benefits. And the 4 years at the Academy counts towards service. After 20 years of service they will get a pension and can get a job in the private sector.

In The DC metro area you see the expensive cars driven by officer families. Not the case with enlisted personnel. You do your 20 years in the officer cadre and then move to the private sector. You never accrued educational debt so it is easier to spend on quality cars. Plus with a generous pension, they do not have to save/invest as ordinary citizens. I'm the son of a retired Navy Captain.

Are there really that many people that become an O6 after just 14 years of service, after being in the academy for 4 years? That's a 36 year old Captain!
My Dh is a retired Marine officer, and most people we knew, after 14 years of actual service were a couple years into being an 04. My Dh retired 10 years ago, have things really changed that much?

An O4 w/20 would still get like 115k a year in pay, plus they will also get over 40k a year in Base Allocated Housing here.

So a person in their early 40s with a college degree that has worked for the same employer for 20 years is making $165/year in the DC area. Is that really considered high income?

It's more the equivalent of 200s in the private sector due to differences in taxation. That housing allowance is untaxed.

Ok. So in the private sector, would you say that someone with a degree and 20 years of experience with the same employer is well paid at $200k in the DC area? I see so many posters here that are "barely scraping by" on $300k+

Most officers have a working wife with a professional job on top of what they earn. My last employer had several officers' wives who worked there (We were a remote first company) that had earnings that were in the range of what you'd expect a GS 14 or GS 15 to make.

Most I knew did not work and were in school. I was more educated as an enlisted wife than most of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting thread. Our HHI is about 800k (3 kids, mid 40s, no pensions) and I simply can't imagine buying a 100k vehicle.

Life is very expensive around here, and there isn't much left after college saving, retirement saving, and all the other day-to-day expenses.

Except the officer family does not have to spend much if anything on college saving, retirement saving, etc. Especially if it's a case like the OP mentions where it's an officer and a fed--they're going to get two pensions, plus if the officer exits at 20, they might get a private sector plan too or a third pension.

And the officer might have the GI bill for their kid(s) plus in-state in the home of record, so college savings is not as big of a thing. Many military have their home of record in states that have VERY cheap in-state. For example, many do time in Georgia, North Carolina, Florida, or Texas and are eligible not only for instate tuition but programs like Georgia's HOPE scholarship.

We have a good amount in college savings. No gi bill. Of course sone save. Especially if you have more than one kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Family money
Spouse has a high income

Also, many active military claim residence in FL and the like, and pay no property taxes

This but officers can make good money. They get a lot for a housing allowance on top of pay.

They also have far less expenses, too, in general. Besides housing, they typically will not spend as much on medical, state income tax, college savings (GI bill plus in-state in their state of residence), retirement, and a whole lot more.

This is, of course, even more true for dual-military families, especially dual-officer.

Also no educational debt.

And throw in lower costs for resources available on base — from seriously lower prices on groceries, shopping at exchanges, recreational opportunities…. It adds up nicely.

Crazy discounts—Epic ski passes for $150 or something ridiculous like that—and cheap Disney tickets too.

Those Disney tickets aren’t that cheap! It’s a something like a 10% discount on the 4 and 5 day passes. It’s nice, but certainly not mind-blowing.

Yep. The Disney military hotel discount isn't worth it either. I went a couple months ago and compared the same room, same dates and the standard promotion Disney was offering to everyone at the time was cheaper than the military discount rate.

It depends on when you go. We haven’t gone in years but I was paying $100-50 for a value or moderate room. Used frequent flyer miles for plane. Plus military tickets and car rental. You have to get the military tickets on base or at shades of green. Shades of green was always much more. We’d go very off season the fall. If you go holidays, summer or spring it’s much more. Most of the other tickets are not worth a trip to the base.

Yes, the military used to be a lot better but for the past several years it has not been that great. Many years ago it was a big enough discount that someone might choose to go to Disney vs. somewhere else because the deal was just too good to pass up. It's not like that anymore. Now it's more if you're going anyway might as well save the money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well we have a DoD budget of over $700 Billion a year so that explains a lot of it. An O6 Captain(18 years service) in the Navy grosses $138k plus a housing allowance with great heath/dental benefits. And the 4 years at the Academy counts towards service. After 20 years of service they will get a pension and can get a job in the private sector.

In The DC metro area you see the expensive cars driven by officer families. Not the case with enlisted personnel. You do your 20 years in the officer cadre and then move to the private sector. You never accrued educational debt so it is easier to spend on quality cars. Plus with a generous pension, they do not have to save/invest as ordinary citizens. I'm the son of a retired Navy Captain.

Are there really that many people that become an O6 after just 14 years of service, after being in the academy for 4 years? That's a 36 year old Captain!
My Dh is a retired Marine officer, and most people we knew, after 14 years of actual service were a couple years into being an 04. My Dh retired 10 years ago, have things really changed that much?

An O4 w/20 would still get like 115k a year in pay, plus they will also get over 40k a year in Base Allocated Housing here.

So a person in their early 40s with a college degree that has worked for the same employer for 20 years is making $165/year in the DC area. Is that really considered high income?

It's not the same--the officer's pay is equivalent to way more than 165k in the private sector. That's because the Base Allocated Housing is nontaxable, plus most military do not pay state income tax b/c of where their home of record is. And there are additional tax breaks for military.

Plus there is the pension and ohter benefits.

And then you add in the fact many have spouses that work, and the spouse does not pay state income tax either because they can claim the same home of record.

Not my experience that "most do not pay state income tax." For most of my Dh's career we lived in our home state of record.
Still what exactly is "way more than $165k" and is it a high income for someone with a degree and 20 years of experience with the same employer?

Then you did it wrong. A stent in Alaska is really the key to maximizing state income tax benefits

Very few (if any) opportunities for a Marine officer to get stationed in Alaska, especially with my Dh's MOS. Our state of record was CA, where there were many billets he could be placed (and was placed.)

Marines is kind of an exception because so many are in CA and North Carolina. More active duty army (and air force) are stationed in Texas than anywhere else, and that's a state w/no income tax. Huge number of air force and navy in Florida, too.

Right, but the pp (you?) were telling that we "did it wrong" by not doing a "stent in Alaska." I'm telling you that is very unlikley there was any opportunity for us to "do it right" in Alaska. Maybe there could be a B-billet as the active duty staff at a reserve unit or some recruiting station? Maybe? But there'd be very few opportunities for that and chances of those very specific billets being available at the same time my Dh was due to PCS is miniscule.
A lot of posters here seem to know military members who got lucky with everything going a certain way as far as billets/duty stations available, but not every military member lucks out like that.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Running joke in military circles actually. Many, many have cars above means.

Also, veterans get preferences for fed jobs. So what they typically do is get a fed job after leaving the military. Once their clearance is processed and they start their new job, they will talk to other vets who are collecting 40k/yr in disability. And they will inevitably apply for disability due to their "PTSD" despite never having seen a second of actual combat.

It’s very hard to get disability pay except if you caught in war and if they did they deserve it. It’s not easy getting a fed job and most don’t have the kind of clearance needed.

My spouses military pension is less than $1k a month. Officers do well.

It is not hard to get disability pay. Most fed jobs don’t require a clearance and veterans do get hiring preference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op checking back in. FWIW the three families I am referring to have 2, 3 and 3 kids respectively, and the parents are around 40yrs old. So I assume they are higher ranking officers with years of military experience. One sometimes comes to school in what appears to be a flight suit type uniform.

One has a spouse that is a teacher, another has a HR type role for a Fed agency, the third I have no idea. I genuinely have no clue what officers make, I clearly don't know their family or personal financial situation. And those details are none of my business. It just surprised me to see the only military parents in my kids classes all driving such expensive vehicles. I didn't know if they got free or subsidized housing, which would be huge. Or that maybe officer can make more than I would have guessed. The only ~$40yo parents (not young people or singles) we know with multiple kids that drive $100K cars are lawyers or doctors So our perspective is clearly bias.

If they are in a flight suit they are higher level officers and probably doing very well. They also probably get special duty pay.

Also, a higher level officer with kids in this area gets just under 4k a month in base allocated housing allowance to put toward their housing costs. That's on top of pay. You can see how the higher level officer plus GS-14 wife couple would be doing fine.

Don't they get more money for each kid they have?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Running joke in military circles actually. Many, many have cars above means.

Also, veterans get preferences for fed jobs. So what they typically do is get a fed job after leaving the military. Once their clearance is processed and they start their new job, they will talk to other vets who are collecting 40k/yr in disability. And they will inevitably apply for disability due to their "PTSD" despite never having seen a second of actual combat.

It’s very hard to get disability pay except if you caught in war and if they did they deserve it. It’s not easy getting a fed job and most don’t have the kind of clearance needed.

My spouses military pension is less than $1k a month. Officers do well.

It is not hard to get disability pay. Most fed jobs don’t require a clearance and veterans do get hiring preference.

+1

It is definitely a thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well we have a DoD budget of over $700 Billion a year so that explains a lot of it. An O6 Captain(18 years service) in the Navy grosses $138k plus a housing allowance with great heath/dental benefits. And the 4 years at the Academy counts towards service. After 20 years of service they will get a pension and can get a job in the private sector.

In The DC metro area you see the expensive cars driven by officer families. Not the case with enlisted personnel. You do your 20 years in the officer cadre and then move to the private sector. You never accrued educational debt so it is easier to spend on quality cars. Plus with a generous pension, they do not have to save/invest as ordinary citizens. I'm the son of a retired Navy Captain.

Are there really that many people that become an O6 after just 14 years of service, after being in the academy for 4 years? That's a 36 year old Captain!
My Dh is a retired Marine officer, and most people we knew, after 14 years of actual service were a couple years into being an 04. My Dh retired 10 years ago, have things really changed that much?

An O4 w/20 would still get like 115k a year in pay, plus they will also get over 40k a year in Base Allocated Housing here.

So a person in their early 40s with a college degree that has worked for the same employer for 20 years is making $165/year in the DC area. Is that really considered high income?

It's more the equivalent of 200s in the private sector due to differences in taxation. That housing allowance is untaxed.

Ok. So in the private sector, would you say that someone with a degree and 20 years of experience with the same employer is well paid at $200k in the DC area? I see so many posters here that are "barely scraping by" on $300k+

I am in the private sector. I hit 20 years of experience this year, and while I have moved employers, I haven’t maximized earning potential, because of other considerations. I make $220k. This is an incredible amount of money.

But to answer OP’s question, an O6 is a GS-15 equivalent. But likely with no debt, and cheaper health insurance. Would you be shocked if a GS-15 was driving a luxury car? Especially one with a working spouse?

I know someone retiring soon as an O-6 and they say they need about $250K in the private sector to equal what they get right now in the military with the tax benefits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting thread. Our HHI is about 800k (3 kids, mid 40s, no pensions) and I simply can't imagine buying a 100k vehicle.

Life is very expensive around here, and there isn't much left after college saving, retirement saving, and all the other day-to-day expenses.

That's because you have an expensive house, travel and other things. We have 1/4 your income and drive a $50K car and we could easily buy another paying cash. Life is expensive when you make it expensive. For the rest of us, it's manageable. I could not imagine on $800k screaming poverty. You can easily afford an 80K car and pay cash.

+1. PP makes $500K more than us in a year, they could live on our budget and easily buy a 100K car every year!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isnt it better than free housing, since most officers rent out their homes, plus get their housing stipend?

? What do you mean by "most officers rent out their homes?" Like they own a home in Oklahoma which they rent out, but they are stationed at Ft. Belvoir, so they get a housing stipend to live in Northern VA? Yes...and they have to rent a home (or buy a home and pay mortgage on it) in Northern VA. Plus home owners/renters insurance. Plus utilities. Plus maintenance, etc.
Or they can live in base housing, but then they won't receive the housing stipend. Base housing isn't always available, depending on the rank and base. Base housing is sometimes compulsory, but usually that's just in very high positions like a base commander.

Base housing is not unusual - and it is free, so if they rent out their house that is paid for, it is free money.