School advising kids to "try again next year" regarding college applications

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that advising kids to matriculate to one of the schools that accepted them is hardly alarming advice, and that, if they are opposed to that then advising them that their other options are to take a gap year or go to a school that accepted them and try to transfer in a year is just speaking truth.

What else would you want them to say to a kid who chose their matches and safeties badly and is now upset at their options? Is there some other option missing?

OP.
The problem (as I hear it) is that what can be considered a safety has shifted. What was a safety even last year is no longer a safety.
The kids in the lower 50% of the class are getting shut out or close to shut out.

I heard the above from Texas but with the opposite outcome. Because they stayed open for full school throughout it Covid and had highly educated parents sub as needed for contact tracing numbers, they did very well with their APs, ECs, and classes the last four years and outperformed for college acceptances versus previous years. These are districts that have tons of test in magnet schools and speciality high schools (engineering, culinary, premed, etc tracks).

Did y’all’s kids write about Covid shutdowns in their essays? That may have been more of a disadvantage than you realize.

Private schools here did not shut down.

Going remote worked out to be just shutting down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that advising kids to matriculate to one of the schools that accepted them is hardly alarming advice, and that, if they are opposed to that then advising them that their other options are to take a gap year or go to a school that accepted them and try to transfer in a year is just speaking truth.

What else would you want them to say to a kid who chose their matches and safeties badly and is now upset at their options? Is there some other option missing?

OP.
The problem (as I hear it) is that what can be considered a safety has shifted. What was a safety even last year is no longer a safety.
The kids in the lower 50% of the class are getting shut out or close to shut out.

I heard the above from Texas but with the opposite outcome. Because they stayed open for full school throughout it Covid and had highly educated parents sub as needed for contact tracing numbers, they did very well with their APs, ECs, and classes the last four years and outperformed for college acceptances versus previous years. These are districts that have tons of test in magnet schools and speciality high schools (engineering, culinary, premed, etc tracks).

Did y’all’s kids write about Covid shutdowns in their essays? That may have been more of a disadvantage than you realize.

Private schools here did not shut down.

Your memory is short. Not as long as the publics, but GDS US, for one, was closed for months. I remember the wailing, gnashing of teeth and rending of garments. The Catholics got it done though.

GDS was basically shut March 20 through Jan 21. Spring 21 were hybrid (awful) with teachers mostly at home and some kids in classroom. It was miserable. As soon as Sidwell moved to get kids back, GDS immediately followed. Faculty was fighting it the entire way. Pitched battle between faculty and HoS who wanted kids back after vaccines were in arms

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I heard from my kid that results are so bad this year at our (Big3) school that the college counseling office is now telling kids
to either take a gap year OR matriculate at a lower tier school and "try again next year".

Have you heard this? It is worrisome or typical advice?

If I spent 200k on a high school and that was the outcome, I'd want a refund

Hmmm. So it is the school's job to place your child in their dream school for college, or the experience wasn't worth anything? I disagree completely. I have a child at NCS/STA and I know my child will be beyond well prepared for college. They will start to visit schools next year or this summer and we will look at many different sorts of schools, not just those everyone else will apply to. If they are applying to "lower tier" schools they will be schools that are great fits with excellent programs that fit my child's personal goals and interests. Then no matter which application leads to an acceptance letter things will be okay. Will the option to transfer if need be be open, of course. A gap year, yes if there is a solid plan to make it worthwhile. But to say that four years of solid curriculum, athletics, arts and hard studying which led to great amounts of learning are meaningless if they don't get into Yale,etc? Well that, madam, is ridiculous and beside to point.

I feel bad for kids who aren't counseled to only to apply to schools they are excited to go to (in a variety of acceptance ranges). They can be found.

This is all fine, but if your kid puts together a list of schools they are excited about, including "lower tier" schools with great fits for excellent programs for your child's goals and interests, and doesn't get in, will you still be very happy with the money you spent at NCS/STA?

That's what parents on this thread are saying. They aren't talking about kids who only applied to top tier schools where admission is a crap shoot even for excellent students. These are kids who applied to Auburn and Boulder, were actively excited about the prospect of going to these schools, and were rejected during the EA round. These kids are, in fact, very well prepared for college, but right now they are scared that they might get the same results from RD (or may have only applied EA/ED), and will be facing a gap year and applying all over again because they have no other options.

I guarantee you that you would be questioning the value of your child's expensive education if you were in that situation, and you are rationalizing now that these students/parents must have screwed it up somehow because that makes you feel secure that it won't happen to you or your kid. But it might, and you'll be back here complaining.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I heard from my kid that results are so bad this year at our (Big3) school that the college counseling office is now telling kids
to either take a gap year OR matriculate at a lower tier school and "try again next year".

Have you heard this? It is worrisome or typical advice?

I heard that you are making sh*t up. What schools have released RD decisions?

Someone keeps making this point, but a lot of kids apply almost entirely EA. There are many schools where is you look at the scattergrams at NCS, plenty of students apply EA and no one applies RD, and they tend to be lower ranked schools that have become more unpredictable. So while I think results will shake out in March to be better than they are now, many kids have heard from a slew of EA schools and may not be waiting on many if any RD schools.

This isn't true. My DC applied to many schools that only had ED and RD as options and the top school on DC's list only has RD.

It isn’t true for you. It is true for others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I heard from my kid that results are so bad this year at our (Big3) school that the college counseling office is now telling kids
to either take a gap year OR matriculate at a lower tier school and "try again next year".

Have you heard this? It is worrisome or typical advice?

If I spent 200k on a high school and that was the outcome, I'd want a refund

Hmmm. So it is the school's job to place your child in their dream school for college, or the experience wasn't worth anything? I disagree completely. I have a child at NCS/STA and I know my child will be beyond well prepared for college. They will start to visit schools next year or this summer and we will look at many different sorts of schools, not just those everyone else will apply to. If they are applying to "lower tier" schools they will be schools that are great fits with excellent programs that fit my child's personal goals and interests. Then no matter which application leads to an acceptance letter things will be okay. Will the option to transfer if need be be open, of course. A gap year, yes if there is a solid plan to make it worthwhile. But to say that four years of solid curriculum, athletics, arts and hard studying which led to great amounts of learning are meaningless if they don't get into Yale,etc? Well that, madam, is ridiculous and beside to point.

I feel bad for kids who aren't counseled to only to apply to schools they are excited to go to (in a variety of acceptance ranges). They can be found.

This is all fine, but if your kid puts together a list of schools they are excited about, including "lower tier" schools with great fits for excellent programs for your child's goals and interests, and doesn't get in, will you still be very happy with the money you spent at NCS/STA?

That's what parents on this thread are saying. They aren't talking about kids who only applied to top tier schools where admission is a crap shoot even for excellent students. These are kids who applied to Auburn and Boulder, were actively excited about the prospect of going to these schools, and were rejected during the EA round. These kids are, in fact, very well prepared for college, but right now they are scared that they might get the same results from RD (or may have only applied EA/ED), and will be facing a gap year and applying all over again because they have no other options.

I guarantee you that you would be questioning the value of your child's expensive education if you were in that situation, and you are rationalizing now that these students/parents must have screwed it up somehow because that makes you feel secure that it won't happen to you or your kid. But it might, and you'll be back here complaining.

To be clear, there are zero parents on this thread who actually have kids who this happened to. It's all people who "heard" about it. I have heard nothing about it and know of plenty of good results.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First of all "Big 3" does not guarantee admission anywhere.

Publics always do better in this area.

Parents need to do their jobs and have their kids target safeties as well.

OP here.
These are kids who applied only to schools 50-125 and are not getting in. They thought they had safeties.

The RD round of decisions hasn't even happened yet, so this is complete BS.

yes.
But the kids that the college advising office is talking about have been rejected from all (or all but one) of their EA options and applied to 20+ schools.
This is what is being talked about: kids who applied to places like Auburn, Wisconsin, Indiana, Clemson, Wake Forest, Penn State etc---all ED and EA and all outright rejections (not deferrals).

Why would those schools want someone in the bottom half of their class?

Lol

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I heard from my kid that results are so bad this year at our (Big3) school that the college counseling office is now telling kids
to either take a gap year OR matriculate at a lower tier school and "try again next year".

Have you heard this? It is worrisome or typical advice?

I heard that you are making sh*t up. What schools have released RD decisions?

Someone keeps making this point, but a lot of kids apply almost entirely EA. There are many schools where is you look at the scattergrams at NCS, plenty of students apply EA and no one applies RD, and they tend to be lower ranked schools that have become more unpredictable. So while I think results will shake out in March to be better than they are now, many kids have heard from a slew of EA schools and may not be waiting on many if any RD schools.

This isn't true. My DC applied to many schools that only had ED and RD as options and the top school on DC's list only has RD.

It isn’t true for you. It is true for others.

Of course. PP said No one applies RD. That is what is not true.

[Anonymous]

Definite troll. Most decisions are not even back yet. go away, OP!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that advising kids to matriculate to one of the schools that accepted them is hardly alarming advice, and that, if they are opposed to that then advising them that their other options are to take a gap year or go to a school that accepted them and try to transfer in a year is just speaking truth.

What else would you want them to say to a kid who chose their matches and safeties badly and is now upset at their options? Is there some other option missing?

OP.
The problem (as I hear it) is that what can be considered a safety has shifted. What was a safety even last year is no longer a safety.
The kids in the lower 50% of the class are getting shut out or close to shut out.

I heard the above from Texas but with the opposite outcome. Because they stayed open for full school throughout it Covid and had highly educated parents sub as needed for contact tracing numbers, they did very well with their APs, ECs, and classes the last four years and outperformed for college acceptances versus previous years. These are districts that have tons of test in magnet schools and speciality high schools (engineering, culinary, premed, etc tracks).

Did y’all’s kids write about Covid shutdowns in their essays? That may have been more of a disadvantage than you realize.

Private schools here did not shut down.

Your memory is short. Not as long as the publics, but GDS US, for one, was closed for months. I remember the wailing, gnashing of teeth and rending of garments. The Catholics got it done though.

GDS was basically shut March 20 through Jan 21. Spring 21 were hybrid (awful) with teachers mostly at home and some kids in classroom. It was miserable. As soon as Sidwell moved to get kids back, GDS immediately followed. Faculty was fighting it the entire way. Pitched battle between faculty and HoS who wanted kids back after vaccines were in arms

GDS went back on a hybrid schedule in November of 2020. I think a lot of schools tried the hybrid model until vaccines were out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that advising kids to matriculate to one of the schools that accepted them is hardly alarming advice, and that, if they are opposed to that then advising them that their other options are to take a gap year or go to a school that accepted them and try to transfer in a year is just speaking truth.

What else would you want them to say to a kid who chose their matches and safeties badly and is now upset at their options? Is there some other option missing?

OP.
The problem (as I hear it) is that what can be considered a safety has shifted. What was a safety even last year is no longer a safety.
The kids in the lower 50% of the class are getting shut out or close to shut out.

I heard the above from Texas but with the opposite outcome. Because they stayed open for full school throughout it Covid and had highly educated parents sub as needed for contact tracing numbers, they did very well with their APs, ECs, and classes the last four years and outperformed for college acceptances versus previous years. These are districts that have tons of test in magnet schools and speciality high schools (engineering, culinary, premed, etc tracks).

Did y’all’s kids write about Covid shutdowns in their essays? That may have been more of a disadvantage than you realize.

Private schools here did not shut down.

Your memory is short. Not as long as the publics, but GDS US, for one, was closed for months. I remember the wailing, gnashing of teeth and rending of garments. The Catholics got it done though.

GDS was basically shut March 20 through Jan 21. Spring 21 were hybrid (awful) with teachers mostly at home and some kids in classroom. It was miserable. As soon as Sidwell moved to get kids back, GDS immediately followed. Faculty was fighting it the entire way. Pitched battle between faculty and HoS who wanted kids back after vaccines were in arms

GDS went back on a hybrid schedule in November of 2020. I think a lot of schools tried the hybrid model until vaccines were out.

Fall: Pk-8 was 2.5 hours of zoom a day. Grades 9-12 was more hours of zoom, Wednesdays off

Post thanksgiving: pK-8 was 8am to noon in person, 10 kids per class. Grades 9-10 had Alternating A group and b group weeks in person. B group didn’t start until January. Many teachers chose to teach virtually from home.

It was pretty subpar and no remedial work was offered over the summer nor the subsequent fall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First of all "Big 3" does not guarantee admission anywhere.

Publics always do better in this area.

Parents need to do their jobs and have their kids target safeties as well.

Nah 40 percent of our big 3 went to top 25 colleges or top 20 liberal arts schools. The remainder went to top 30 liberal arts or top 40 university with the exception of one or two. Public can’t come close to that.

Does no one realize this is a dumb metric considering public covers a much wider range and percentile of abilities, socioeconomics, and even desire to attend college immediately following high school? Further public schools in this area could have a senior class 3x the size of a private school senior class.

The high income public schools are being hit even hard by the craziness of the test optional world. Colleges are favoring first gen. Pell eligible and urm in the early admission rounds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First of all "Big 3" does not guarantee admission anywhere.

Publics always do better in this area.

Parents need to do their jobs and have their kids target safeties as well.

Nah 40 percent of our big 3 went to top 25 colleges or top 20 liberal arts schools. The remainder went to top 30 liberal arts or top 40 university with the exception of one or two. Public can’t come close to that.

Does no one realize this is a dumb metric considering public covers a much wider range and percentile of abilities, socioeconomics, and even desire to attend college immediately following high school? Further public schools in this area could have a senior class 3x the size of a private school senior class.

The high income public schools are being hit even hard by the craziness of the test optional world. Colleges are favoring first gen. Pell eligible and urm in the early admission rounds.

No the publics aren’t. The first gen thing was 7 years ago, and still around.

They’re cranking out 5s on AP tests, HS internships, travel sport grads, independent scientific research classes, magnet schools, and the same SAT/ACT scooted plus higher level math and science classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First of all "Big 3" does not guarantee admission anywhere.

Publics always do better in this area.

Parents need to do their jobs and have their kids target safeties as well.

Nah 40 percent of our big 3 went to top 25 colleges or top 20 liberal arts schools. The remainder went to top 30 liberal arts or top 40 university with the exception of one or two. Public can’t come close to that.

Does no one realize this is a dumb metric considering public covers a much wider range and percentile of abilities, socioeconomics, and even desire to attend college immediately following high school? Further public schools in this area could have a senior class 3x the size of a private school senior class.

The high income public schools are being hit even hard by the craziness of the test optional world. Colleges are favoring first gen. Pell eligible and urm in the early admission rounds.

No the publics aren’t. The first gen thing was 7 years ago, and still around.

They’re cranking out 5s on AP tests, HS internships, travel sport grads, independent scientific research classes, magnet schools, and the same SAT/ACT scooted plus higher level math and science classes.

These great results aren’t represented on their Instagram accounts then. Or you are mistaken. Not talking about magnet schools as they are mixed income.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I heard from my kid that results are so bad this year at our (Big3) school that the college counseling office is now telling kids
to either take a gap year OR matriculate at a lower tier school and "try again next year".

Have you heard this? It is worrisome or typical advice?

If I spent 200k on a high school and that was the outcome, I'd want a refund

Hmmm. So it is the school's job to place your child in their dream school for college, or the experience wasn't worth anything? I disagree completely. I have a child at NCS/STA and I know my child will be beyond well prepared for college. They will start to visit schools next year or this summer and we will look at many different sorts of schools, not just those everyone else will apply to. If they are applying to "lower tier" schools they will be schools that are great fits with excellent programs that fit my child's personal goals and interests. Then no matter which application leads to an acceptance letter things will be okay. Will the option to transfer if need be be open, of course. A gap year, yes if there is a solid plan to make it worthwhile. But to say that four years of solid curriculum, athletics, arts and hard studying which led to great amounts of learning are meaningless if they don't get into Yale,etc? Well that, madam, is ridiculous and beside to point.

I feel bad for kids who aren't counseled to only to apply to schools they are excited to go to (in a variety of acceptance ranges). They can be found.

Maybe folks can perhaps explain the dichotomy between selecting a top private school for HS, but then in the same breath justifying a "lower tier" college.

There are tons of private schools in the DC area, and yet STA/NCS, Sidwell & (what is #3...GDS? Potomac?) are the equivalent of HYP in terms of how they are viewed on DCUM.

It just doesn't make a ton of sense that parents specifically sought out the HYP of private DC schools, and then claim it had nothing to do with where they went to college. It just feels like parents are trying to rationalize their kids' college results coming in below expectations based on attending the HYP or private DC schools.

Because the "best fit" for a high schooler kid might be an elite, expensive school where he's going to get a lot of attention from the faculty, due to the small class size & so on, whereas the best fit for the same student at a college might be a relatively uncompetitive, inexpensive school where he's going to get a lot of attention from the faculty, on account of being relatively a stand-out student, perhaps largely due to his earlier training.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First of all "Big 3" does not guarantee admission anywhere.

Publics always do better in this area.

Parents need to do their jobs and have their kids target safeties as well.

OP here.
These are kids who applied only to schools 50-125 and are not getting in. They thought they had safeties.

The RD round of decisions hasn't even happened yet, so this is complete BS.

yes.
But the kids that the college advising office is talking about have been rejected from all (or all but one) of their EA options and applied to 20+ schools.
This is what is being talked about: kids who applied to places like Auburn, Wisconsin, Indiana, Clemson, Wake Forest, Penn State etc---all ED and EA and all outright rejections (not deferrals).

Why would those schools want someone in the bottom half of their class?

The dumbest, laziest kid at an elite school could be a top 10 student at quite a few crappy ones.