Can I ask for my child to be principal placed?

[Anonymous]

My child had good scores, good iReady, but a bad HOPE because she is very shy and was rejected. I'm going to appeal and submit a Level III request, but can I also specifically ask the school to principal place her?

[Anonymous]

You can ask for anything

[Anonymous]

Has anyone tried this and succeeded?

[Anonymous]

I asked for my DC to be principal placed in a non-center school that has a robust local IV (AAP kids are pulled out together for the core subjects.) I was waiting for the appeal decision and was covering all my bases in case the appeal was rejected.

In short, the principal said no. He said my child’s score on some internal school specific test were not high enough. I did not even know such a test had been given. It turns out it is a test full of third, fourth, and fifth grade math questions. The only way my kid would know how to answer was if they had been accelerating in Kumon or some such outside class when they were only in second grade. We had not been doing that type of enrichment, but if we had, I have no doubt my DC would have done great because they are exceptionally strong in math.The test was basically just a mechanism for the principal to use an excuse to turn down all/most of the parents who probably ask him to principal place their child. Naturally, the whole thing is very untransparent so it is impossible to know if the principal applies the same standard to every kid.

At the end of the day DC got in on appeal and is thriving in AAP. I am still a little peeved that the system really seems to have been built to keep a very smart AND hard working kid out of AAP, but thankfully me and my spouse kept pushing and turned in a really great appeal packet using the information on this board.

So bottom line - if you think your kid needs to be in AAP keep pushing every angle you have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I asked for my DC to be principal placed in a non-center school that has a robust local IV (AAP kids are pulled out together for the core subjects.) I was waiting for the appeal decision and was covering all my bases in case the appeal was rejected.

In short, the principal said no. He said my child’s score on some internal school specific test were not high enough. I did not even know such a test had been given. It turns out it is a test full of third, fourth, and fifth grade math questions. The only way my kid would know how to answer was if they had been accelerating in Kumon or some such outside class when they were only in second grade. We had not been doing that type of enrichment, but if we had, I have no doubt my DC would have done great because they are exceptionally strong in math.The test was basically just a mechanism for the principal to use an excuse to turn down all/most of the parents who probably ask him to principal place their child. Naturally, the whole thing is very untransparent so it is impossible to know if the principal applies the same standard to every kid.

At the end of the day DC got in on appeal and is thriving in AAP. I am still a little peeved that the system really seems to have been built to keep a very smart AND hard working kid out of AAP, but thankfully me and my spouse kept pushing and turned in a really great appeal packet using the information on this board.

So bottom line - if you think your kid needs to be in AAP keep pushing every angle you have.

Thank you for your reply, this is super helpful. If we don't get in on appeal, we will try again next year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I asked for my DC to be principal placed in a non-center school that has a robust local IV (AAP kids are pulled out together for the core subjects.) I was waiting for the appeal decision and was covering all my bases in case the appeal was rejected.

In short, the principal said no. He said my child’s score on some internal school specific test were not high enough. I did not even know such a test had been given. It turns out it is a test full of third, fourth, and fifth grade math questions. The only way my kid would know how to answer was if they had been accelerating in Kumon or some such outside class when they were only in second grade. We had not been doing that type of enrichment, but if we had, I have no doubt my DC would have done great because they are exceptionally strong in math.The test was basically just a mechanism for the principal to use an excuse to turn down all/most of the parents who probably ask him to principal place their child. Naturally, the whole thing is very untransparent so it is impossible to know if the principal applies the same standard to every kid.

At the end of the day DC got in on appeal and is thriving in AAP. I am still a little peeved that the system really seems to have been built to keep a very smart AND hard working kid out of AAP, but thankfully me and my spouse kept pushing and turned in a really great appeal packet using the information on this board.

So bottom line - if you think your kid needs to be in AAP keep pushing every angle you have.

What was the test?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I asked for my DC to be principal placed in a non-center school that has a robust local IV (AAP kids are pulled out together for the core subjects.) I was waiting for the appeal decision and was covering all my bases in case the appeal was rejected.

In short, the principal said no. He said my child’s score on some internal school specific test were not high enough. I did not even know such a test had been given. It turns out it is a test full of third, fourth, and fifth grade math questions. The only way my kid would know how to answer was if they had been accelerating in Kumon or some such outside class when they were only in second grade. We had not been doing that type of enrichment, but if we had, I have no doubt my DC would have done great because they are exceptionally strong in math.The test was basically just a mechanism for the principal to use an excuse to turn down all/most of the parents who probably ask him to principal place their child. Naturally, the whole thing is very untransparent so it is impossible to know if the principal applies the same standard to every kid.

At the end of the day DC got in on appeal and is thriving in AAP. I am still a little peeved that the system really seems to have been built to keep a very smart AND hard working kid out of AAP, but thankfully me and my spouse kept pushing and turned in a really great appeal packet using the information on this board.

So bottom line - if you think your kid needs to be in AAP keep pushing every angle you have.

What was in your appeal packet?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I asked for my DC to be principal placed in a non-center school that has a robust local IV (AAP kids are pulled out together for the core subjects.) I was waiting for the appeal decision and was covering all my bases in case the appeal was rejected.

In short, the principal said no. He said my child’s score on some internal school specific test were not high enough. I did not even know such a test had been given. It turns out it is a test full of third, fourth, and fifth grade math questions. The only way my kid would know how to answer was if they had been accelerating in Kumon or some such outside class when they were only in second grade. We had not been doing that type of enrichment, but if we had, I have no doubt my DC would have done great because they are exceptionally strong in math.The test was basically just a mechanism for the principal to use an excuse to turn down all/most of the parents who probably ask him to principal place their child. Naturally, the whole thing is very untransparent so it is impossible to know if the principal applies the same standard to every kid.

At the end of the day DC got in on appeal and is thriving in AAP. I am still a little peeved that the system really seems to have been built to keep a very smart AND hard working kid out of AAP, but thankfully me and my spouse kept pushing and turned in a really great appeal packet using the information on this board.

So bottom line - if you think your kid needs to be in AAP keep pushing every angle you have.

What was the test?

The test was something the school created. I asked to see it and the principal refused. The principal gave me a general description, and I asked DC about it and they were able to describe it a little bit, too. It was mostly advanced math question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I asked for my DC to be principal placed in a non-center school that has a robust local IV (AAP kids are pulled out together for the core subjects.) I was waiting for the appeal decision and was covering all my bases in case the appeal was rejected.

In short, the principal said no. He said my child’s score on some internal school specific test were not high enough. I did not even know such a test had been given. It turns out it is a test full of third, fourth, and fifth grade math questions. The only way my kid would know how to answer was if they had been accelerating in Kumon or some such outside class when they were only in second grade. We had not been doing that type of enrichment, but if we had, I have no doubt my DC would have done great because they are exceptionally strong in math.The test was basically just a mechanism for the principal to use an excuse to turn down all/most of the parents who probably ask him to principal place their child. Naturally, the whole thing is very untransparent so it is impossible to know if the principal applies the same standard to every kid.

At the end of the day DC got in on appeal and is thriving in AAP. I am still a little peeved that the system really seems to have been built to keep a very smart AND hard working kid out of AAP, but thankfully me and my spouse kept pushing and turned in a really great appeal packet using the information on this board.

So bottom line - if you think your kid needs to be in AAP keep pushing every angle you have.

What was in your appeal packet?

We took an all of the above approach. We did the WISC test, and the score was nearly identical to the COGAT and into the 99th percentile. We also submitted new work samples. A math one where we had DC do math questions from a worksheet and show their work, and a writing one where we had DC write a story. We also wrote an appeal letter (about 1.25 pages) where we emphasized the characteristics of our child that demonstrated why they needed AAP, with specific examples. Note we did not frame the letter along the lines of “DC is so smart,” which is already evident in the test scores, but rather the letter was written from the perspective of why DC needed AAP and their development would be hampered without it. We were also very humble and polite in tone and tried to address the committee as partners in DC’s education with only the best intentions.

[Anonymous]

One final consideration for those planning to ask for principal placement. If you think your child was initially rejected by the committee for low HOPE/GBRS, bear in mind that those scores were derived by your principal/AART/teacher. The school has already determined for themselves that your child is not a good fit for AAP by issuing those scores. Asking the principal to essentially reverse their decision and principal place is rolling a rock up a hill. I am not saying you should not ask for principal placement if your DC has low HOPE, I am just saying you will need to go into that meeting with evidence for why the school’s assessment is wrong. And of course you should also appeal.

[Anonymous]

Our principal says she keeps a list of parent requests for principal placement/guest status and considers that while making her decision for who to place in temp local level iv.

And totally agree, have heard it goes over very poorly to take an aggressive stance or claim child is bored in Gen ed. Look for times they are outliers: ie, whole class had to repeat a math test except your child, your child is in a small reading group for above grade level books etc

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One final consideration for those planning to ask for principal placement. If you think your child was initially rejected by the committee for low HOPE/GBRS, bear in mind that those scores were derived by your principal/AART/teacher. The school has already determined for themselves that your child is not a good fit for AAP by issuing those scores. Asking the principal to essentially reverse their decision and principal place is rolling a rock up a hill. I am not saying you should not ask for principal placement if your DC has low HOPE, I am just saying you will need to go into that meeting with evidence for why the school’s assessment is wrong. And of course you should also appeal.

The problem is we don’t know what a low Hope score is. There are academic components where my child got always and almost always for most then social components where they got nevers. That does not mean the child isn’t one of the strongest students in the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I asked for my DC to be principal placed in a non-center school that has a robust local IV (AAP kids are pulled out together for the core subjects.) I was waiting for the appeal decision and was covering all my bases in case the appeal was rejected.

In short, the principal said no. He said my child’s score on some internal school specific test were not high enough. I did not even know such a test had been given. It turns out it is a test full of third, fourth, and fifth grade math questions. The only way my kid would know how to answer was if they had been accelerating in Kumon or some such outside class when they were only in second grade. We had not been doing that type of enrichment, but if we had, I have no doubt my DC would have done great because they are exceptionally strong in math.The test was basically just a mechanism for the principal to use an excuse to turn down all/most of the parents who probably ask him to principal place their child. Naturally, the whole thing is very untransparent so it is impossible to know if the principal applies the same standard to every kid.

At the end of the day DC got in on appeal and is thriving in AAP. I am still a little peeved that the system really seems to have been built to keep a very smart AND hard working kid out of AAP, but thankfully me and my spouse kept pushing and turned in a really great appeal packet using the information on this board.

So bottom line - if you think your kid needs to be in AAP keep pushing every angle you have.

What was in your appeal packet?

We took an all of the above approach. We did the WISC test, and the score was nearly identical to the COGAT and into the 99th percentile. We also submitted new work samples. A math one where we had DC do math questions from a worksheet and show their work, and a writing one where we had DC write a story. We also wrote an appeal letter (about 1.25 pages) where we emphasized the characteristics of our child that demonstrated why they needed AAP, with specific examples. Note we did not frame the letter along the lines of “DC is so smart,” which is already evident in the test scores, but rather the letter was written from the perspective of why DC needed AAP and their development would be hampered without it. We were also very humble and polite in tone and tried to address the committee as partners in DC’s education with only the best intentions.

Not good writing appeal letter. Please share your sample

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One final consideration for those planning to ask for principal placement. If you think your child was initially rejected by the committee for low HOPE/GBRS, bear in mind that those scores were derived by your principal/AART/teacher. The school has already determined for themselves that your child is not a good fit for AAP by issuing those scores. Asking the principal to essentially reverse their decision and principal place is rolling a rock up a hill. I am not saying you should not ask for principal placement if your DC has low HOPE, I am just saying you will need to go into that meeting with evidence for why the school’s assessment is wrong. And of course you should also appeal.

The problem is we don’t know what a low Hope score is. There are academic components where my child got always and almost always for most then social components where they got nevers. That does not mean the child isn’t one of the strongest students in the school.

Sorry, PP, this must be exasperating. "Never" is like trying to prove a negative. I don't suppose you are allowed to ask for examples? It's such a black box process. It didn't matter in our case, but the HOPE completer only knew certain things about my child. Didn't know about DD's musical ability since that didn't come up in class, yet they have "performing arts" on the form. It's not really part of her ability to do her academic work, but they had no clue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our principal says she keeps a list of parent requests for principal placement/guest status and considers that while making her decision for who to place in temp local level iv.

And totally agree, have heard it goes over very poorly to take an aggressive stance or claim child is bored in Gen ed. Look for times they are outliers: ie, whole class had to repeat a math test except your child, your child is in a small reading group for above grade level books etc

These are good examples, but for those writing their appeal letter now, I would encourage you to take the examples one step further. Right now those examples could be interpreted by a cynical committee as evidence that DC’s needs are actually being met in the classroom. For example, they aced the test, so clearly they are learning what they need to in Gen Ed. Or there is a small cohort of kids in Gen Ed who are on par for reading with your child. Help the committee understand not just that your child is smart, which those examples indicate, but that your child NEEDS AAP. So if your kid was the only one that did not have to re-take the test, also explain that DC’s needs are not being met in the Gen Ed classroom because they could be learning so much more and meeting their potential if they were in a peer group with a higher baseline for learning. The current baseline in the Gen Ed group is not helping child fulfill their potential - DC is maxed out. Don’t make the committee search within your examples for why your kid needs AAP. Spell it out for them explicitly.