Seattle schools end gifted and talented program

[Anonymous]

To make the school system more equitable

https://www.seattletimes.com/education-lab/why-seattle-public-schools-is-closing-its-highly-capable-cohort-program/

[Anonymous]

I saw that. In the article I read, they noted that many school districts are moving in this direction but none of them are succeeding in providing differentiation.

[Anonymous]

Here is another article on the same move by Seattle’s school system:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13266205/Seattle-closes-gifted-talented-schools-racial-inequities.html

This appears to be an equity-driven attempt to close the achievement gap from the top-down.

[Anonymous]

In 2021, NYC’s then mayor initiated a phase-out of all the city’s gifted and talented programs, for racial equity reasons:

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/nyc-schools-to-eliminate-controversial-gifted-talented-classes/3313300/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here is another article on the same move by Seattle’s school system:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13266205/Seattle-closes-gifted-talented-schools-racial-inequities.html

This appears to be an equity-driven attempt to close the achievement gap from the top-down.

That was always going to be how the achievement gap was closed. It is impossible to replicate educated parents who care and foster learning. No amount of interventions will change that. That means that if closing the gap is the goal (it's always closing the gap, never just raising the bottom), the the only way is suppressing those who are excelling

[Anonymous]

Seattle private schools are already over-enrolled. This will make it even harder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Seattle private schools are already over-enrolled. This will make it even harder.

Former Seattle local here.

I disagree with you. Few Seattle private schools have competitive admissions. Sure, it is difficult to get into Lakeside and average, rich white kids are increasingly suprised that they can't just stroll in to University Prep or Seattle Prep like the could 20 years ago. But most independent schools are fairly easy to get in to, and far easier than in cities like NYC, DC, or LA. Seattle's legacy of redlining and how they handled desegregation, specifically busing (it lasted until 1999) led to the creation of scores of small independent schools all over the greater Seattle area, and it's easy for anyone to find a seat at one. Seattle and Bellevue have a few preschool-8th grade "gifted" independent schools that are perennially difficult to get in to, but that's been the case for decades and has more to do with the arrogance of north Seattle and Bellevue parents than it does an actual surplus of gifted children.

Like the majority of the country, Seattle is experiencing a decline in birthrate that affects birth years around 2013 and after. There are districts like Mercer Island that currently have 400 kids in their graduating class, but will be down to 300 kids per graduating class in just 5-6 years. Consolidation of schools in Seattle Public Schools and elimination of the gifted program go hand in hand- the quiet part is that Seattle has known for 10 years that the standalone HCC schools and neighborhood zoned schools would not be sustainable given budget and enrollment numbers. Covid-era equity conversations and gross politics made closing HCC schools a very political move, but given enrollment projects and the budget, they were going to have to close anyway. The real question is if SPS can make these moves in time to hold the budget together or if the state will end up intervening. It's a mess!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In 2021, NYC’s then mayor initiated a phase-out of all the city’s gifted and talented programs, for racial equity reasons:

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/nyc-schools-to-eliminate-controversial-gifted-talented-classes/3313300/

Massachusetts doesn’t have gifted and talented programs and their public schools always beat every other state in terms of test scores.

And why is a two year old reciting the Gettysburg Address and how does that make the child gifted? My three year old niece could read anything without missing a word and she wasn’t gifted, just a good reader who started a few years earlier than most. Everyone caught up with her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seattle private schools are already over-enrolled. This will make it even harder.

Former Seattle local here.

I disagree with you. Few Seattle private schools have competitive admissions. Sure, it is difficult to get into Lakeside and average, rich white kids are increasingly suprised that they can't just stroll in to University Prep or Seattle Prep like the could 20 years ago. But most independent schools are fairly easy to get in to, and far easier than in cities like NYC, DC, or LA. Seattle's legacy of redlining and how they handled desegregation, specifically busing (it lasted until 1999) led to the creation of scores of small independent schools all over the greater Seattle area, and it's easy for anyone to find a seat at one. Seattle and Bellevue have a few preschool-8th grade "gifted" independent schools that are perennially difficult to get in to, but that's been the case for decades and has more to do with the arrogance of north Seattle and Bellevue parents than it does an actual surplus of gifted children.

Like the majority of the country, Seattle is experiencing a decline in birthrate that affects birth years around 2013 and after. There are districts like Mercer Island that currently have 400 kids in their graduating class, but will be down to 300 kids per graduating class in just 5-6 years. Consolidation of schools in Seattle Public Schools and elimination of the gifted program go hand in hand- the quiet part is that Seattle has known for 10 years that the standalone HCC schools and neighborhood zoned schools would not be sustainable given budget and enrollment numbers. Covid-era equity conversations and gross politics made closing HCC schools a very political move, but given enrollment projects and the budget, they were going to have to close anyway. The real question is if SPS can make these moves in time to hold the budget together or if the state will end up intervening. It's a mess!

The bolded is the key part of what you wrote. Your information is very out of date.

[Anonymous]

Thank you to the former Seattle poster for the long reply. It's easy to make judgments from a headline about a school system we know nothing about. The truth is that there are many different school systems around the country each doing things in their own slightly different way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seattle private schools are already over-enrolled. This will make it even harder.

Former Seattle local here.

I disagree with you. Few Seattle private schools have competitive admissions. Sure, it is difficult to get into Lakeside and average, rich white kids are increasingly suprised that they can't just stroll in to University Prep or Seattle Prep like the could 20 years ago. But most independent schools are fairly easy to get in to, and far easier than in cities like NYC, DC, or LA. Seattle's legacy of redlining and how they handled desegregation, specifically busing (it lasted until 1999) led to the creation of scores of small independent schools all over the greater Seattle area, and it's easy for anyone to find a seat at one. Seattle and Bellevue have a few preschool-8th grade "gifted" independent schools that are perennially difficult to get in to, but that's been the case for decades and has more to do with the arrogance of north Seattle and Bellevue parents than it does an actual surplus of gifted children.

Like the majority of the country, Seattle is experiencing a decline in birthrate that affects birth years around 2013 and after. There are districts like Mercer Island that currently have 400 kids in their graduating class, but will be down to 300 kids per graduating class in just 5-6 years. Consolidation of schools in Seattle Public Schools and elimination of the gifted program go hand in hand- the quiet part is that Seattle has known for 10 years that the standalone HCC schools and neighborhood zoned schools would not be sustainable given budget and enrollment numbers. Covid-era equity conversations and gross politics made closing HCC schools a very political move, but given enrollment projects and the budget, they were going to have to close anyway. The real question is if SPS can make these moves in time to hold the budget together or if the state will end up intervening. It's a mess!

The bolded is the key part of what you wrote. Your information is very out of date.

DP. Can you give an update?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In 2021, NYC’s then mayor initiated a phase-out of all the city’s gifted and talented programs, for racial equity reasons:

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/nyc-schools-to-eliminate-controversial-gifted-talented-classes/3313300/

Massachusetts doesn’t have gifted and talented programs and their public schools always beat every other state in terms of test scores. .

Do they have the same racial/demographic stats? If not then it’s not relevant. We already know that some racial backgrounds perform better than others at school.

[Anonymous]

I went to school in Massachusetts and we had pull out for kids who were gifted and talented. There was a lot of differentiation and real effort smade to serve kids who were ahead. Toss in the charter schools and the like and there are plenty of ways to get services to kids who are ahead. My friends who are still living in the state all have kids at charters for that exact reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seattle private schools are already over-enrolled. This will make it even harder.

Former Seattle local here.

I disagree with you. Few Seattle private schools have competitive admissions. Sure, it is difficult to get into Lakeside and average, rich white kids are increasingly suprised that they can't just stroll in to University Prep or Seattle Prep like the could 20 years ago. But most independent schools are fairly easy to get in to, and far easier than in cities like NYC, DC, or LA. Seattle's legacy of redlining and how they handled desegregation, specifically busing (it lasted until 1999) led to the creation of scores of small independent schools all over the greater Seattle area, and it's easy for anyone to find a seat at one. Seattle and Bellevue have a few preschool-8th grade "gifted" independent schools that are perennially difficult to get in to, but that's been the case for decades and has more to do with the arrogance of north Seattle and Bellevue parents than it does an actual surplus of gifted children.

Like the majority of the country, Seattle is experiencing a decline in birthrate that affects birth years around 2013 and after. There are districts like Mercer Island that currently have 400 kids in their graduating class, but will be down to 300 kids per graduating class in just 5-6 years. Consolidation of schools in Seattle Public Schools and elimination of the gifted program go hand in hand- the quiet part is that Seattle has known for 10 years that the standalone HCC schools and neighborhood zoned schools would not be sustainable given budget and enrollment numbers. Covid-era equity conversations and gross politics made closing HCC schools a very political move, but given enrollment projects and the budget, they were going to have to close anyway. The real question is if SPS can make these moves in time to hold the budget together or if the state will end up intervening. It's a mess!

The bolded is the key part of what you wrote. Your information is very out of date.

DP. Can you give an update?

I'm the Seattle poster and I moved last September, so I'd love to know what's changed in the last 7 months.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seattle private schools are already over-enrolled. This will make it even harder.

Former Seattle local here.

I disagree with you. Few Seattle private schools have competitive admissions. Sure, it is difficult to get into Lakeside and average, rich white kids are increasingly suprised that they can't just stroll in to University Prep or Seattle Prep like the could 20 years ago. But most independent schools are fairly easy to get in to, and far easier than in cities like NYC, DC, or LA. Seattle's legacy of redlining and how they handled desegregation, specifically busing (it lasted until 1999) led to the creation of scores of small independent schools all over the greater Seattle area, and it's easy for anyone to find a seat at one. Seattle and Bellevue have a few preschool-8th grade "gifted" independent schools that are perennially difficult to get in to, but that's been the case for decades and has more to do with the arrogance of north Seattle and Bellevue parents than it does an actual surplus of gifted children.

Like the majority of the country, Seattle is experiencing a decline in birthrate that affects birth years around 2013 and after. There are districts like Mercer Island that currently have 400 kids in their graduating class, but will be down to 300 kids per graduating class in just 5-6 years. Consolidation of schools in Seattle Public Schools and elimination of the gifted program go hand in hand- the quiet part is that Seattle has known for 10 years that the standalone HCC schools and neighborhood zoned schools would not be sustainable given budget and enrollment numbers. Covid-era equity conversations and gross politics made closing HCC schools a very political move, but given enrollment projects and the budget, they were going to have to close anyway. The real question is if SPS can make these moves in time to hold the budget together or if the state will end up intervening. It's a mess!

The bolded is the key part of what you wrote. Your information is very out of date.

DP. Can you give an update?

The PP is correct about the historical background. That is indeed the case. And for many years, it used to be easier to get into schools like Seattle Prep than in areas like DC, NYC, and SF/LA. Seattle has a long history of having a large percentage of the population in private schools:

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/data/more-than-1-in-5-seattle-students-are-enrolled-in-private-schools-among-highest-in-nation/

So, I think what PP wrote is historically accurate. But where it is wrong is the current landscape. I think it’s true that population is declining in the public schools, but that’s not just due to a decline in birthrate. It’s because people are fleeing the public system. That percentage of 1 in 5 kids enrolled in private is higher now, because so many kids left in covid and never returned. That means that private school admissions are far more competitive than they used to be.

So, I think the PP provided useful background information but the current picture is inaccurate with respect to the competitiveness of Seattle’s private schools. Unfortunately I think this move is only going to accelerate the decline.