HB-- focus on writing?

[Anonymous]

I'm disappointed in what I've seen and heard about writing instruction in APS. For parents of kids at HB, do you think it's any better? I thought that the smaller class sizes might mean more time for teachers to assign longer essays and give feedback on papers, etc, even while working within the same curriculum. Your feedback is appreciated.

[Anonymous]

Don’t have much to compare it to but my 6th grader seems to be getting some strong writing instruction and challenging assignments in History class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don’t have much to compare it to but my 6th grader seems to be getting some strong writing instruction and challenging assignments in History class.

6th grade experience does not foretell high school demands. My older kid wrote more in elementary than they did in high school.

However, OP: I have been extremely disappointed in high school writing all through my oldest's 4 years and my youngest's 2. I will say, however, that even though there are not any extensive papers per se, I am seeing that my younger child is getting a lot of writing experience now. Most notably, this is through AP Seminar and AP English (11th grade). Can't say the same for other AP classes like APUSH or AP Gov't, though. Waiting to see what AP Lit brings next year.

There doesn't seem to be the same amount of the type of writing there was "back in my day." A lot of persuasive essays and focus on writing from some different perspectives. However, what I have heard about my child's assignments and the few things I have recently actually seen, the quality of the instruction (in their current classes) is good - particularly in understanding and using quality sources and specific requirements for supporting your argument. And there seems to be a lot (? good amount?) of these shorter types of writing assignments. AP Seminar has been beneficial for identifying quality of sources, working in groups, learning presentation skills, analyzing a topic through a specific lens (ie: scientific, social, futuristic, etc.) though you don't have an opportunity to actually apply many of those lenses yourself because you just do one for each project and can use the same lens for multiple projects if you choose.

There still is not much focus on correcting grammar, unfortunately (even in the AP classes). Focus is definitely more on substance than on the writing per se. Essentially this means that my kid's writing could be better merely by learning how to organize sentences and paragraphs better, learning to phrase things differently, and using more (and correct) punctuation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm disappointed in what I've seen and heard about writing instruction in APS. For parents of kids at HB, do you think it's any better? I thought that the smaller class sizes might mean more time for teachers to assign longer essays and give feedback on papers, etc, even while working within the same curriculum. Your feedback is appreciated.

Excellent question. I'd be interested in the answer to this, too. "Too many students" has been the main/sole excuse/reason for not being able to do more substantial writing. So a small school should theoretically be able to handle it, right? Or do HB teachers have the same # of students?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm disappointed in what I've seen and heard about writing instruction in APS. For parents of kids at HB, do you think it's any better? I thought that the smaller class sizes might mean more time for teachers to assign longer essays and give feedback on papers, etc, even while working within the same curriculum. Your feedback is appreciated.

Excellent question. I'd be interested in the answer to this, too. "Too many students" has been the main/sole excuse/reason for not being able to do more substantial writing. So a small school should theoretically be able to handle it, right? Or do HB teachers have the same # of students?

Even if they have same number of students, they have far fewer discipline problems, just look at the suspension data, they have about about 1/8-1/4 the number of suspensions of the mainstream high schools. Having involved parents really helps that, and the lottery opt in and logistics does just that.

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Suspension-Data-2019-20.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t have much to compare it to but my 6th grader seems to be getting some strong writing instruction and challenging assignments in History class.

6th grade experience does not foretell high school demands. My older kid wrote more in elementary than they did in high school.

However, OP: I have been extremely disappointed in high school writing all through my oldest's 4 years and my youngest's 2. I will say, however, that even though there are not any extensive papers per se, I am seeing that my younger child is getting a lot of writing experience now. Most notably, this is through AP Seminar and AP English (11th grade). Can't say the same for other AP classes like APUSH or AP Gov't, though. Waiting to see what AP Lit brings next year.

There doesn't seem to be the same amount of the type of writing there was "back in my day." A lot of persuasive essays and focus on writing from some different perspectives. However, what I have heard about my child's assignments and the few things I have recently actually seen, the quality of the instruction (in their current classes) is good - particularly in understanding and using quality sources and specific requirements for supporting your argument. And there seems to be a lot (? good amount?) of these shorter types of writing assignments. AP Seminar has been beneficial for identifying quality of sources, working in groups, learning presentation skills, analyzing a topic through a specific lens (ie: scientific, social, futuristic, etc.) though you don't have an opportunity to actually apply many of those lenses yourself because you just do one for each project and can use the same lens for multiple projects if you choose.

There still is not much focus on correcting grammar, unfortunately (even in the AP classes). Focus is definitely more on substance than on the writing per se. Essentially this means that my kid's writing could be better merely by learning how to organize sentences and paragraphs better, learning to phrase things differently, and using more (and correct) punctuation.

I don’t think this poster is sharing experience about HBW if they’re talking about AP seminar because HB doesn’t offer it.

As a parent, I’ve found HB has some teachers who take writing instruction quite seriously, and others who don’t. Pretty equivalent to the other schools, though I’ve heard (from a friend who teaches there) HB teachers are meeting to be more intentional about writing pedagogy across grade levels.

The biggest challenge of writing instruction is grading all those essays. Since HB teachers have six classes instead of the normal five, it might mean a comparable number of essays to deal with. I think class sizes are the main obstacle to the kind of writing instruction we’d all like to see.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm disappointed in what I've seen and heard about writing instruction in APS. For parents of kids at HB, do you think it's any better? I thought that the smaller class sizes might mean more time for teachers to assign longer essays and give feedback on papers, etc, even while working within the same curriculum. Your feedback is appreciated.

Excellent question. I'd be interested in the answer to this, too. "Too many students" has been the main/sole excuse/reason for not being able to do more substantial writing. So a small school should theoretically be able to handle it, right? Or do HB teachers have the same # of students?

Even if they have same number of students, they have far fewer discipline problems, just look at the suspension data, they have about about 1/8-1/4 the number of suspensions of the mainstream high schools. Having involved parents really helps that, and the lottery opt in and logistics does just that.

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Suspension-Data-2019-20.pdf

Entirely irrelevant to being able to assign and grade papers.

[Anonymous]

Land the helicopter

[Anonymous]

The answer is no, based on my experience with one at HB and one at YHS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t have much to compare it to but my 6th grader seems to be getting some strong writing instruction and challenging assignments in History class.

6th grade experience does not foretell high school demands. My older kid wrote more in elementary than they did in high school.

However, OP: I have been extremely disappointed in high school writing all through my oldest's 4 years and my youngest's 2. I will say, however, that even though there are not any extensive papers per se, I am seeing that my younger child is getting a lot of writing experience now. Most notably, this is through AP Seminar and AP English (11th grade). Can't say the same for other AP classes like APUSH or AP Gov't, though. Waiting to see what AP Lit brings next year.

There doesn't seem to be the same amount of the type of writing there was "back in my day." A lot of persuasive essays and focus on writing from some different perspectives. However, what I have heard about my child's assignments and the few things I have recently actually seen, the quality of the instruction (in their current classes) is good - particularly in understanding and using quality sources and specific requirements for supporting your argument. And there seems to be a lot (? good amount?) of these shorter types of writing assignments. AP Seminar has been beneficial for identifying quality of sources, working in groups, learning presentation skills, analyzing a topic through a specific lens (ie: scientific, social, futuristic, etc.) though you don't have an opportunity to actually apply many of those lenses yourself because you just do one for each project and can use the same lens for multiple projects if you choose.

There still is not much focus on correcting grammar, unfortunately (even in the AP classes). Focus is definitely more on substance than on the writing per se. Essentially this means that my kid's writing could be better merely by learning how to organize sentences and paragraphs better, learning to phrase things differently, and using more (and correct) punctuation.

I don’t think this poster is sharing experience about HBW if they’re talking about AP seminar because HB doesn’t offer it.

As a parent, I’ve found HB has some teachers who take writing instruction quite seriously, and others who don’t. Pretty equivalent to the other schools, though I’ve heard (from a friend who teaches there) HB teachers are meeting to be more intentional about writing pedagogy across grade levels.

The biggest challenge of writing instruction is grading all those essays. Since HB teachers have six classes instead of the normal five, it might mean a comparable number of essays to deal with. I think class sizes are the main obstacle to the kind of writing instruction we’d all like to see.

No, I was sharing that I had the same impression about the writing at the other APS schools but have come to see it a bit differently and more positively. OP didn't elaborate on what they specifically have heard or think of the writing curriculum. Thought it might be helpful to OP. And I was also expressing my shared curiosity about potential differences at HB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Land the helicopter

Oh come on. It's hardly helicoptering to wonder about the differences in curriculum/instruction at the different schools/programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm disappointed in what I've seen and heard about writing instruction in APS. For parents of kids at HB, do you think it's any better? I thought that the smaller class sizes might mean more time for teachers to assign longer essays and give feedback on papers, etc, even while working within the same curriculum. Your feedback is appreciated.

Excellent question. I'd be interested in the answer to this, too. "Too many students" has been the main/sole excuse/reason for not being able to do more substantial writing. So a small school should theoretically be able to handle it, right? Or do HB teachers have the same # of students?

Even if they have same number of students, they have far fewer discipline problems, just look at the suspension data, they have about about 1/8-1/4 the number of suspensions of the mainstream high schools. Having involved parents really helps that, and the lottery opt in and logistics does just that.

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Suspension-Data-2019-20.pdf

Off topic but just looked at the data in your link and your premise is wrong. As a percentage of students, all of the schools hover around 1-2% for suspended students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm disappointed in what I've seen and heard about writing instruction in APS. For parents of kids at HB, do you think it's any better? I thought that the smaller class sizes might mean more time for teachers to assign longer essays and give feedback on papers, etc, even while working within the same curriculum. Your feedback is appreciated.

Excellent question. I'd be interested in the answer to this, too. "Too many students" has been the main/sole excuse/reason for not being able to do more substantial writing. So a small school should theoretically be able to handle it, right? Or do HB teachers have the same # of students?

Even if they have same number of students, they have far fewer discipline problems, just look at the suspension data, they have about about 1/8-1/4 the number of suspensions of the mainstream high schools. Having involved parents really helps that, and the lottery opt in and logistics does just that.

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Suspension-Data-2019-20.pdf

Entirely irrelevant to being able to assign and grade papers.

You are unaware of how much time teachers must devote to maintaining class order in these times. Send them to the office, they send them back. Being suspended or expelled takes a RIDICULOUS high bar of bad behavior and takes forever. It completely diminishes available instruction and administrative time as they must deal with it in class and document after to see any progress made.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm disappointed in what I've seen and heard about writing instruction in APS. For parents of kids at HB, do you think it's any better? I thought that the smaller class sizes might mean more time for teachers to assign longer essays and give feedback on papers, etc, even while working within the same curriculum. Your feedback is appreciated.

Excellent question. I'd be interested in the answer to this, too. "Too many students" has been the main/sole excuse/reason for not being able to do more substantial writing. So a small school should theoretically be able to handle it, right? Or do HB teachers have the same # of students?

Even if they have same number of students, they have far fewer discipline problems, just look at the suspension data, they have about about 1/8-1/4 the number of suspensions of the mainstream high schools. Having involved parents really helps that, and the lottery opt in and logistics does just that.

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Suspension-Data-2019-20.pdf

Off topic but just looked at the data in your link and your premise is wrong. As a percentage of students, all of the schools hover around 1-2% for suspended students.

1/400 HBW 0.25%
21/2100 YHS 1%

WL and WHS closer to 2%

They literally have a column on the page (though it say HB is 0%, I’ll be generous and not say infinitely more discipline problems)

[Anonymous]

Each grade in high school has the same English teacher so that is the entire class load, you can see exactly how many students the teacher has based on how many kids are in that grade and all kids in a grade are getting the exact same instruction unless some are doing the AP track (which is usually offered the same time as the regular class, with extra assignments and some in-class breakouts). Some English teachers also teach an elective like film or Shakespeare.

H-B focuses a lot on research and writing. They do year-long projects where they break down how to write a long paper, they spend a whole year doing an English research paper in 9th and a whole year doing a paper on a historic person in 10th. They also spend a lot of time on different kinds of writing--persuasive, descriptive, argumentative, etc. Science classes also require papers.

But what I really appreciated was the very structured approach to writing in English classes, to help them develop the skills to develop college-length research papers: they had to develop a topic, come up with research questions, then an outline, then an introduction, then the body, write the paper, and do a presentation--all over two semesters with a very specific rubric and feedback at each step.