Is AAP really necessary?

[Anonymous]

Moved to FCPS several years ago when oldest was in 6th grade. Qualified for AAP based on some IQ test they took in previous school district, but deferred AAP services until 7th grade (pyramid school was AAP center) because didn't want to change schools in the middle of the year. ES then wasn't an AAP center. Middle kid (2 years younger) didn't qualify for AAP but took all honors in middle school. They both ended up at TJ and doing well. My youngest (1st grade) attends a high performing ES at an AAP center, but I don't have any experience on how the AAP process works as I didn't have kids that started at FCPS this young. It just seems stressful with parents getting testing done independently etc. Is AAP in elementary and middle really necessary for students to be prepared for and be successful in high school AP classes, honors etc?

[Anonymous]

You know the answer to this. Kids from all walks of life with all levels of test scores can be prepared for and successful in high school, AP courses, and beyond.

AAP has been a gift to my child though. It's why we stay in FCPS instead of moving to another county. As someone who was told, "Here's the next grade level book, go teach yourself in the corner" for math in 5th and 6th grade, it's so awesome to see my own child have a cohort of peers at his level.

[Anonymous]

Yes, it is necessary. There are kids who need it.
They find their own tribes while participating in the program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it is necessary. There are kids who need it.
They find their own tribes while participating in the program.

+1

AAP isn't about high school (or at least not directly). It's about grade school, both academically and socially.

[Anonymous]

LIV and other AAP services are necessary for a number of kids.

Kids who are ahead or advanced at a Title 1 school absolutely need AAP services. The kids who are ahead or advanced will not get the attention of the Teacher in a Title 1 school were kids are starting school not knowing their letters, numbers, colors, shapes, and the like. The kids who are starting behind are coming from households that do not have the ability/means/interest to help the child get to grade level or stay at grade level. The Teacher is going to be focused on trying to get those kids up to grade level or at least close to grade level. While it is true that you will have kids who are behind at every school, even the high SES schools, the number of kids in that position is far smaller, which makes it easier to have a child work with a specialist to get caught up versus 2/3 of the class in the same boat.

The kids at a Title 1 or near Title 1 school need LIV services so that they have a space that meets their educational needs and challenge them otherwise they will be sitting in a classroom with little to no attention while their peers are struggling to catch up.

Is LIV needed at middle class and high SES schools? Yes. There are kids who struggle in the regular curriculum for a variety of reasons. There are kids who do fine in the regular class but are not excelling. The Teacher is going to spend the most time with the kids who are struggling and a good amount of time with the kids on grade level. Kids who are ahead deserve an opportunity to be challenged and pushed. That is what LIV is, an opportunity to move at a pace that challenges them. It is less about kids being gifted and brilliant and more about having material that engages kids who are ahead so that they enjoy school and develop good habits.

Do we need Center schools and all of that? That is a different question. I would say no but we deferred LIV services to stay at the base school with Advanced Math and things have been fine. There are parents whose kids struggled at the base school but moving to the Center was great for them. There are parents very focused on a cohort of academically minded kids. I am not certain how many academically minded 4th graders there are vs how many 4th graders have parents who make them do their homework and read and make sure that they are prepared for school so that they look like they are academically minded. There are parents who are all about the prestige of their kid being in AAP, those are the same parents that will push for their kid to take 15 AP classes in high school.

Do I think that kids in AAP are smarter or better prepared for MS/HS then other kids? Not really. I think most of the AAP kids are there because they needed a bit more and deserved attention from the Teacher that they would not get in the regular classroom. I think that kids learn and mature at different rates and that there are plenty of kids not in AAP who are capable of doing AP/IB level work once they get to high school but they were not as fast to grasp the foundational learning blocks as kids in AAP in ES. I am glad that there is a program to let those kids who have grasped that material more quickly move at a faster or more in depth manner in ES. I am glad that the regular classroom provides the support for kids to learn the material so that they are ready for honors, AP/IB classes in HS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:LIV and other AAP services are necessary for a number of kids.

Kids who are ahead or advanced at a Title 1 school absolutely need AAP services. The kids who are ahead or advanced will not get the attention of the Teacher in a Title 1 school were kids are starting school not knowing their letters, numbers, colors, shapes, and the like. The kids who are starting behind are coming from households that do not have the ability/means/interest to help the child get to grade level or stay at grade level. The Teacher is going to be focused on trying to get those kids up to grade level or at least close to grade level. While it is true that you will have kids who are behind at every school, even the high SES schools, the number of kids in that position is far smaller, which makes it easier to have a child work with a specialist to get caught up versus 2/3 of the class in the same boat.

The kids at a Title 1 or near Title 1 school need LIV services so that they have a space that meets their educational needs and challenge them otherwise they will be sitting in a classroom with little to no attention while their peers are struggling to catch up.

Is LIV needed at middle class and high SES schools? Yes. There are kids who struggle in the regular curriculum for a variety of reasons. There are kids who do fine in the regular class but are not excelling. The Teacher is going to spend the most time with the kids who are struggling and a good amount of time with the kids on grade level. Kids who are ahead deserve an opportunity to be challenged and pushed. That is what LIV is, an opportunity to move at a pace that challenges them. It is less about kids being gifted and brilliant and more about having material that engages kids who are ahead so that they enjoy school and develop good habits.

Do we need Center schools and all of that? That is a different question. I would say no but we deferred LIV services to stay at the base school with Advanced Math and things have been fine. There are parents whose kids struggled at the base school but moving to the Center was great for them. There are parents very focused on a cohort of academically minded kids. I am not certain how many academically minded 4th graders there are vs how many 4th graders have parents who make them do their homework and read and make sure that they are prepared for school so that they look like they are academically minded. There are parents who are all about the prestige of their kid being in AAP, those are the same parents that will push for their kid to take 15 AP classes in high school.

Do I think that kids in AAP are smarter or better prepared for MS/HS then other kids? Not really. I think most of the AAP kids are there because they needed a bit more and deserved attention from the Teacher that they would not get in the regular classroom. I think that kids learn and mature at different rates and that there are plenty of kids not in AAP who are capable of doing AP/IB level work once they get to high school but they were not as fast to grasp the foundational learning blocks as kids in AAP in ES. I am glad that there is a program to let those kids who have grasped that material more quickly move at a faster or more in depth manner in ES. I am glad that the regular classroom provides the support for kids to learn the material so that they are ready for honors, AP/IB classes in HS.

This is why my oldest needed AAP. He is smarter, very smart. And he had learned in 2nd grade not to raise his hand, not to say the right answer. He had already learned that being smart wasn't a good thing or at least he had better not be smarter than the other kids.

AAP was a safe place for him to be smart. He wasn't treated meanly when he got the top score in the kahoot etc. The teachers called on him and it was fine when he knew the right answer.

My youngest doesn't really need AAP but he is learning from the deeper curriculum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LIV and other AAP services are necessary for a number of kids.

Kids who are ahead or advanced at a Title 1 school absolutely need AAP services. The kids who are ahead or advanced will not get the attention of the Teacher in a Title 1 school were kids are starting school not knowing their letters, numbers, colors, shapes, and the like. The kids who are starting behind are coming from households that do not have the ability/means/interest to help the child get to grade level or stay at grade level. The Teacher is going to be focused on trying to get those kids up to grade level or at least close to grade level. While it is true that you will have kids who are behind at every school, even the high SES schools, the number of kids in that position is far smaller, which makes it easier to have a child work with a specialist to get caught up versus 2/3 of the class in the same boat.

The kids at a Title 1 or near Title 1 school need LIV services so that they have a space that meets their educational needs and challenge them otherwise they will be sitting in a classroom with little to no attention while their peers are struggling to catch up.

Is LIV needed at middle class and high SES schools? Yes. There are kids who struggle in the regular curriculum for a variety of reasons. There are kids who do fine in the regular class but are not excelling. The Teacher is going to spend the most time with the kids who are struggling and a good amount of time with the kids on grade level. Kids who are ahead deserve an opportunity to be challenged and pushed. That is what LIV is, an opportunity to move at a pace that challenges them. It is less about kids being gifted and brilliant and more about having material that engages kids who are ahead so that they enjoy school and develop good habits.

Do we need Center schools and all of that? That is a different question. I would say no but we deferred LIV services to stay at the base school with Advanced Math and things have been fine. There are parents whose kids struggled at the base school but moving to the Center was great for them. There are parents very focused on a cohort of academically minded kids. I am not certain how many academically minded 4th graders there are vs how many 4th graders have parents who make them do their homework and read and make sure that they are prepared for school so that they look like they are academically minded. There are parents who are all about the prestige of their kid being in AAP, those are the same parents that will push for their kid to take 15 AP classes in high school.

Do I think that kids in AAP are smarter or better prepared for MS/HS then other kids? Not really. I think most of the AAP kids are there because they needed a bit more and deserved attention from the Teacher that they would not get in the regular classroom. I think that kids learn and mature at different rates and that there are plenty of kids not in AAP who are capable of doing AP/IB level work once they get to high school but they were not as fast to grasp the foundational learning blocks as kids in AAP in ES. I am glad that there is a program to let those kids who have grasped that material more quickly move at a faster or more in depth manner in ES. I am glad that the regular classroom provides the support for kids to learn the material so that they are ready for honors, AP/IB classes in HS.

This is why my oldest needed AAP. He is smarter, very smart. And he had learned in 2nd grade not to raise his hand, not to say the right answer. He had already learned that being smart wasn't a good thing or at least he had better not be smarter than the other kids.

AAP was a safe place for him to be smart. He wasn't treated meanly when he got the top score in the kahoot etc. The teachers called on him and it was fine when he knew the right answer.

My youngest doesn't really need AAP but he is learning from the deeper curriculum.

Some kids are smarter but a lot of kids in AAP are hard workers, which is fine and I have no problem with. I think we need a classroom for the kids who are ahead regardless of how they got there.

I also think that there are smart kids who need to learn how to be smart and navigate in a world where people are not as smart as them. I have the smart kid who wouldn't raise his hand until 3rd grade, we deferred so it had nothing to do with a new peer group, because he needed to learn it was ok to be wrong. He didn't want to answer a question because he might be wrong. He has smart friends who I call Hermiones, their entire identity is that they are smart and ahead and they have to show everyone how smart they are. There is a happy medium that many of the smart kids really need to learn to walk. Carry their intelligence with a quiet confidence. Admittedly, that is a lot to ask of 6-11 year olds, which is why I am fine with AAP because the kids need a place to be smart or be ahead.

I do think that there are enough parents who tout how special their kid is because they are in AAP that there are kids who pick up on that and you end up with the kids making comments about other kids not being smart because they are not in AAP. I do see where the program can be divisive, which is why I would prefer switching classes for each class and grouping kids based on ability for each class. That way kids who are strong in LA but grade level for math are in the LA class for kids who are ahead and a math class for kids on grade level. I think the way that we handle AAP is divisive and problematic, especially at the Center schools.

[Anonymous]

No AAP is not necessary. It’s just like gened in many FCPS schools. Only math is different that too one grade ahead with no challenge.
With current political environment, it’s a race to the bottom. This is called equity. I’m afraid what will happen to US in next 20 years with DEI and equity, test optional, and all such nonsense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No AAP is not necessary. It’s just like gened in many FCPS schools. Only math is different that too one grade ahead with no challenge.
With current political environment, it’s a race to the bottom. This is called equity. I’m afraid what will happen to US in next 20 years with DEI and equity, test optional, and all such nonsense.

Sounds like old man yelling at cloud!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LIV and other AAP services are necessary for a number of kids.

Kids who are ahead or advanced at a Title 1 school absolutely need AAP services. The kids who are ahead or advanced will not get the attention of the Teacher in a Title 1 school were kids are starting school not knowing their letters, numbers, colors, shapes, and the like. The kids who are starting behind are coming from households that do not have the ability/means/interest to help the child get to grade level or stay at grade level. The Teacher is going to be focused on trying to get those kids up to grade level or at least close to grade level. While it is true that you will have kids who are behind at every school, even the high SES schools, the number of kids in that position is far smaller, which makes it easier to have a child work with a specialist to get caught up versus 2/3 of the class in the same boat.

The kids at a Title 1 or near Title 1 school need LIV services so that they have a space that meets their educational needs and challenge them otherwise they will be sitting in a classroom with little to no attention while their peers are struggling to catch up.

Is LIV needed at middle class and high SES schools? Yes. There are kids who struggle in the regular curriculum for a variety of reasons. There are kids who do fine in the regular class but are not excelling. The Teacher is going to spend the most time with the kids who are struggling and a good amount of time with the kids on grade level. Kids who are ahead deserve an opportunity to be challenged and pushed. That is what LIV is, an opportunity to move at a pace that challenges them. It is less about kids being gifted and brilliant and more about having material that engages kids who are ahead so that they enjoy school and develop good habits.

Do we need Center schools and all of that? That is a different question. I would say no but we deferred LIV services to stay at the base school with Advanced Math and things have been fine. There are parents whose kids struggled at the base school but moving to the Center was great for them. There are parents very focused on a cohort of academically minded kids. I am not certain how many academically minded 4th graders there are vs how many 4th graders have parents who make them do their homework and read and make sure that they are prepared for school so that they look like they are academically minded. There are parents who are all about the prestige of their kid being in AAP, those are the same parents that will push for their kid to take 15 AP classes in high school.

Do I think that kids in AAP are smarter or better prepared for MS/HS then other kids? Not really. I think most of the AAP kids are there because they needed a bit more and deserved attention from the Teacher that they would not get in the regular classroom. I think that kids learn and mature at different rates and that there are plenty of kids not in AAP who are capable of doing AP/IB level work once they get to high school but they were not as fast to grasp the foundational learning blocks as kids in AAP in ES. I am glad that there is a program to let those kids who have grasped that material more quickly move at a faster or more in depth manner in ES. I am glad that the regular classroom provides the support for kids to learn the material so that they are ready for honors, AP/IB classes in HS.

This is why my oldest needed AAP. He is smarter, very smart. And he had learned in 2nd grade not to raise his hand, not to say the right answer. He had already learned that being smart wasn't a good thing or at least he had better not be smarter than the other kids.

AAP was a safe place for him to be smart. He wasn't treated meanly when he got the top score in the kahoot etc. The teachers called on him and it was fine when he knew the right answer.

My youngest doesn't really need AAP but he is learning from the deeper curriculum.

NP. These are exactly my oldest 2 kids. My oldest actually needed AAP and would have learned to hate school without it. My middle does not strictly need it, but is doing well and it's been beneficial.

I know kids who qualified for AAP and chose not to do it (we are at a center, so it wasn't about not switching to the center school). They will be well prepared for MS/HS and their families are happy with that choice. I expect those kids will be taking APs alongside mine some day. But for my kids it would have been a loss not to be in the LIV classes.

[Anonymous]

It's necessary but only for truly gifted children. The vast majority of children in AAP are just smart. They don't NEED AAP, but it's nice for them and it gives their parents something to brag about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No AAP is not necessary. It’s just like gened in many FCPS schools. Only math is different that too one grade ahead with no challenge.
With current political environment, it’s a race to the bottom. This is called equity. I’m afraid what will happen to US in next 20 years with DEI and equity, test optional, and all such nonsense.

Sounds like old man yelling at cloud!

or sounds like old woman yelling at cloud!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's necessary but only for truly gifted children. The vast majority of children in AAP are just smart. They don't NEED AAP, but it's nice for them and it gives their parents something to brag about.

I was going to suggest you have the option to ignore them but it seems like you actually enjoy hearing others brag, only to then complain about it here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Moved to FCPS several years ago when oldest was in 6th grade. Qualified for AAP based on some IQ test they took in previous school district, but deferred AAP services until 7th grade (pyramid school was AAP center) because didn't want to change schools in the middle of the year. ES then wasn't an AAP center. Middle kid (2 years younger) didn't qualify for AAP but took all honors in middle school. They both ended up at TJ and doing well. My youngest (1st grade) attends a high performing ES at an AAP center, but I don't have any experience on how the AAP process works as I didn't have kids that started at FCPS this young. It just seems stressful with parents getting testing done independently etc. Is AAP in elementary and middle really necessary for students to be prepared for and be successful in high school AP classes, honors etc?

Your story sounds like a load of cow patties.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's necessary but only for truly gifted children. The vast majority of children in AAP are just smart. They don't NEED AAP, but it's nice for them and it gives their parents something to brag about.

I was going to suggest you have the option to ignore them but it seems like you actually enjoy hearing others brag, only to then complain about it here.

I can relate. I can't stand AAP, yet I always find myself eavesdropping on parent conversations about AAP. If any of you know of a cure for my predicament, please let me know.