Since the topic of whether to take Algebra I in 7th comes up

[Anonymous]

I thought I would post this here. DD is an 8th grader, taking Geometry now. Algebra I was easy. Her current Geometry teacher sends out a summary of how the kids in class are doing, including class averages. Here's how things are going:

Formative 1 - 86.5%
Formative 2 - 82.6%
Summative 1 - 88.2%

IIRC, everything up to Summative 1 was review.

Formative 3 - 94.2%
Summative 2 - 94.1%
Formative 4 - 96.3%
Summative 3 - 91.7%
Formative 5 - 85.7%
Summative 4 - 86.5%
Formative 6 - 84.2%
Summative 5 - 83.8%
Formative 7 - 74.7%

Next summative is next week. The trendlines are not great.

[Anonymous]

MS Geometry teacher - there is a lot behind these numbers, though. My students who keep up with their homework and study seriously for their tests generally score in the 90s. Those that don't are generally in the 80s, sometimes lower (this past unit had more 70s than normal and a few that were lower). Also, the units do get progressively harder as they build and require accessing prior theorems/definitions and more complicated proofs.

I don't feel like any of my students were improperly accelerated, none are totally over their heads.

[Anonymous]

My son is in Geometry HN and it is definitely harder than Algebra 1 HN. So far he is doing well with A, I do remind him to work on homework right away and redo class notes. It works as the PP teacher said. Several of his friends took Geometry over the summer and I see now that it will be so much harder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MS Geometry teacher - there is a lot behind these numbers, though. My students who keep up with their homework and study seriously for their tests generally score in the 90s. Those that don't are generally in the 80s, sometimes lower (this past unit had more 70s than normal and a few that were lower). Also, the units do get progressively harder as they build and require accessing prior theorems/definitions and more complicated proofs.

I don't feel like any of my students were improperly accelerated, none are totally over their heads.

Question for teacher- do you see a lot of kids coming in your class having already taken geometry before they take your geometry class? I was surprised by the number of parents I know that had their kids take algebra over summer they said so then could be easier and “be review” during school year. Was curious if folks keep this up or was it a TJ plan before TJ now a lottery?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MS Geometry teacher - there is a lot behind these numbers, though. My students who keep up with their homework and study seriously for their tests generally score in the 90s. Those that don't are generally in the 80s, sometimes lower (this past unit had more 70s than normal and a few that were lower). Also, the units do get progressively harder as they build and require accessing prior theorems/definitions and more complicated proofs.

I don't feel like any of my students were improperly accelerated, none are totally over their heads.

Question for teacher- do you see a lot of kids coming in your class having already taken geometry before they take your geometry class? I was surprised by the number of parents I know that had their kids take algebra over summer they said so then could be easier and “be review” during school year. Was curious if folks keep this up or was it a TJ plan before TJ now a lottery?

Different teacher. I’ve never seen this happen. Those who take geometry over the summer go straight to algebra 2.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MS Geometry teacher - there is a lot behind these numbers, though. My students who keep up with their homework and study seriously for their tests generally score in the 90s. Those that don't are generally in the 80s, sometimes lower (this past unit had more 70s than normal and a few that were lower). Also, the units do get progressively harder as they build and require accessing prior theorems/definitions and more complicated proofs.

I don't feel like any of my students were improperly accelerated, none are totally over their heads.

Question for teacher- do you see a lot of kids coming in your class having already taken geometry before they take your geometry class? I was surprised by the number of parents I know that had their kids take algebra over summer they said so then could be easier and “be review” during school year. Was curious if folks keep this up or was it a TJ plan before TJ now a lottery?

One of DD's friends took Geometry HN over the summer, and got a B-. Her parents encouraged her to expunge and redo. She said it was torturous enough to do it once, and moved on to Algebra II, which has been a whole lot easier. I doubt her response is unique.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MS Geometry teacher - there is a lot behind these numbers, though. My students who keep up with their homework and study seriously for their tests generally score in the 90s. Those that don't are generally in the 80s, sometimes lower (this past unit had more 70s than normal and a few that were lower). Also, the units do get progressively harder as they build and require accessing prior theorems/definitions and more complicated proofs.

I don't feel like any of my students were improperly accelerated, none are totally over their heads.

Some of the kids DD knows are definitely in over their heads. The ones with parents that can afford it got them tutors, because results in the 60s or lower is not going to cut it. She said that on the last assessment, the class average for one of her friends' classes was 69 and change. I don't know if that's a reflection of the teacher (I used to teach in college, and low class averages were an indication to me that I had not done my job), or the kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I thought I would post this here. DD is an 8th grader, taking Geometry now. Algebra I was easy. Her current Geometry teacher sends out a summary of how the kids in class are doing, including class averages. Here's how things are going:

Formative 1 - 86.5%
Formative 2 - 82.6%
Summative 1 - 88.2%

IIRC, everything up to Summative 1 was review.

Formative 3 - 94.2%
Summative 2 - 94.1%
Formative 4 - 96.3%
Summative 3 - 91.7%
Formative 5 - 85.7%
Summative 4 - 86.5%
Formative 6 - 84.2%
Summative 5 - 83.8%
Formative 7 - 74.7%

Next summative is next week. The trendlines are not great.

Do these averages seem high or low? What is expected for this class at this grade level? Most to get As as it is all the love-math/math-inclined kids? Averages above don’t suggest all kids can do the math in their sleep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought I would post this here. DD is an 8th grader, taking Geometry now. Algebra I was easy. Her current Geometry teacher sends out a summary of how the kids in class are doing, including class averages. Here's how things are going:

Formative 1 - 86.5%
Formative 2 - 82.6%
Summative 1 - 88.2%

IIRC, everything up to Summative 1 was review.

Formative 3 - 94.2%
Summative 2 - 94.1%
Formative 4 - 96.3%
Summative 3 - 91.7%
Formative 5 - 85.7%
Summative 4 - 86.5%
Formative 6 - 84.2%
Summative 5 - 83.8%
Formative 7 - 74.7%

Next summative is next week. The trendlines are not great.

Do these averages seem high or low? What is expected for this class at this grade level? Most to get As as it is all the love-math/math-inclined kids? Averages above don’t suggest all kids can do the math in their sleep.

To me, averages look okay until this last test. The interesting thing to me is that DD's scores are trending in the exact opposite direction. She had the hardest time early on, but has been doing well of late.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MS Geometry teacher - there is a lot behind these numbers, though. My students who keep up with their homework and study seriously for their tests generally score in the 90s. Those that don't are generally in the 80s, sometimes lower (this past unit had more 70s than normal and a few that were lower). Also, the units do get progressively harder as they build and require accessing prior theorems/definitions and more complicated proofs.

I don't feel like any of my students were improperly accelerated, none are totally over their heads.

Question for teacher- do you see a lot of kids coming in your class having already taken geometry before they take your geometry class? I was surprised by the number of parents I know that had their kids take algebra over summer they said so then could be easier and “be review” during school year. Was curious if folks keep this up or was it a TJ plan before TJ now a lottery?

Above teacher - none of my students took Geometry over the summer. One came in and said that he took it and their parents clarified later it was just a 1 or two week self-paced thing their child played around with. It didn't help a lot once we got to the second unit, they were on average with other students.

To the other question about test trends, I looked at some of my students report cards from Alg 1. No one seems to be vastly different than their final grades (B+ students have been trending B+).

We also have a generous retake policy (one retake per assessment, regardless of original score) so I do have students that take advantage of it - some bring up their scores, some don't do as well on the new test. Highest score sticks.

If anything, I would recommend continued summer Algebra practice. My students have struggled when we have encountered skills from Alg 1 - especially factoring and simplifying square roots. These are things they need to be able to do in their sleep to be successful in Alg 2.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MS Geometry teacher - there is a lot behind these numbers, though. My students who keep up with their homework and study seriously for their tests generally score in the 90s. Those that don't are generally in the 80s, sometimes lower (this past unit had more 70s than normal and a few that were lower). Also, the units do get progressively harder as they build and require accessing prior theorems/definitions and more complicated proofs.

I don't feel like any of my students were improperly accelerated, none are totally over their heads.

Question for teacher- do you see a lot of kids coming in your class having already taken geometry before they take your geometry class? I was surprised by the number of parents I know that had their kids take algebra over summer they said so then could be easier and “be review” during school year. Was curious if folks keep this up or was it a TJ plan before TJ now a lottery?

Above teacher - none of my students took Geometry over the summer. One came in and said that he took it and their parents clarified later it was just a 1 or two week self-paced thing their child played around with. It didn't help a lot once we got to the second unit, they were on average with other students.

To the other question about test trends, I looked at some of my students report cards from Alg 1. No one seems to be vastly different than their final grades (B+ students have been trending B+).

We also have a generous retake policy (one retake per assessment, regardless of original score) so I do have students that take advantage of it - some bring up their scores, some don't do as well on the new test. Highest score sticks.

If anything, I would recommend continued summer Algebra practice. My students have struggled when we have encountered skills from Alg 1 - especially factoring and simplifying square roots. These are things they need to be able to do in their sleep to be successful in Alg 2.

When get to Algebra 2, sounds then no longer like younger math years when lots of “remember how to do this” units?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MS Geometry teacher - there is a lot behind these numbers, though. My students who keep up with their homework and study seriously for their tests generally score in the 90s. Those that don't are generally in the 80s, sometimes lower (this past unit had more 70s than normal and a few that were lower). Also, the units do get progressively harder as they build and require accessing prior theorems/definitions and more complicated proofs.

I don't feel like any of my students were improperly accelerated, none are totally over their heads.

Question for teacher- do you see a lot of kids coming in your class having already taken geometry before they take your geometry class? I was surprised by the number of parents I know that had their kids take algebra over summer they said so then could be easier and “be review” during school year. Was curious if folks keep this up or was it a TJ plan before TJ now a lottery?

Teachers would not necessarily know if students had seen the material before via AoPS and/or other similar programs. AoPS exposure is more common than pre-taking a traditional summer course.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MS Geometry teacher - there is a lot behind these numbers, though. My students who keep up with their homework and study seriously for their tests generally score in the 90s. Those that don't are generally in the 80s, sometimes lower (this past unit had more 70s than normal and a few that were lower). Also, the units do get progressively harder as they build and require accessing prior theorems/definitions and more complicated proofs.

I don't feel like any of my students were improperly accelerated, none are totally over their heads.

Some of the kids DD knows are definitely in over their heads. The ones with parents that can afford it got them tutors, because results in the 60s or lower is not going to cut it. She said that on the last assessment, the class average for one of her friends' classes was 69 and change. I don't know if that's a reflection of the teacher (I used to teach in college, and low class averages were an indication to me that I had not done my job), or the kids.

I teach college, too, and my class averages are in the low 50s/high 40s. But the average is a statistic that needs to be paired with the standard deviation to be meaningful.
And the standard deviation is about 16-17, which gives a near perfect bell curve: 3sigma kids score in the 90s (I haven't had anyone with a 100). I pass everyone who is above mu-1sigma.
I see plenty of students though who come with a highschool mindset of "if I don't get an 80/90 I have failed." But grading in college is to provide differentiation for future employers,
not test basic standards most should master.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MS Geometry teacher - there is a lot behind these numbers, though. My students who keep up with their homework and study seriously for their tests generally score in the 90s. Those that don't are generally in the 80s, sometimes lower (this past unit had more 70s than normal and a few that were lower). Also, the units do get progressively harder as they build and require accessing prior theorems/definitions and more complicated proofs.

I don't feel like any of my students were improperly accelerated, none are totally over their heads.

Some of the kids DD knows are definitely in over their heads. The ones with parents that can afford it got them tutors, because results in the 60s or lower is not going to cut it. She said that on the last assessment, the class average for one of her friends' classes was 69 and change. I don't know if that's a reflection of the teacher (I used to teach in college, and low class averages were an indication to me that I had not done my job), or the kids.

I teach college, too, and my class averages are in the low 50s/high 40s. But the average is a statistic that needs to be paired with the standard deviation to be meaningful.
And the standard deviation is about 16-17, which gives a near perfect bell curve: 3sigma kids score in the 90s (I haven't had anyone with a 100). I pass everyone who is above mu-1sigma.
I see plenty of students though who come with a highschool mindset of "if I don't get an 80/90 I have failed." But grading in college is to provide differentiation for future employers,
not test basic standards most should master.

Absolutely, you have to look at the distribution of scores and SD, and contextualize it. I have taken classes where the class average was in the 20s and class highs in the 40s. It is invariably the case that the test was not what I would consider fair.

[Anonymous]

My 7th grader took geometry in a 7/8th grade mixed class. They had similar grades I would say. Most did not get As. More like A- to C. BUT, my own child’s experience was that is was not content related. Rather kids would take homework shortcuts and not show all work and get a lot of points taken off. They just lacked the maturity to be ultra diligent with homework. These same kids (including mine) when on to higher level math with zero issues in high school and have been accepted to top colleges- so clearly they got better grades once in high school