(cold weather) Heat pump installers

[Anonymous]

The tech from my regular HVAC service company suggested my furnace needs to be replaced. I said I was interested in a heat pump and he was pretty dismissive of the idea.

He was willing to install whatever I wanted. But I'm hesitant to hire someone who doesn't believe in their own product and doesn't really want to do the work.

I want to find someone who really understands the latest technology and who really supports and believes in it (and maybe actually specializes in it). Any recommendations?

[Anonymous]

Hecox and Cold Comfort were both open to heat pumps when we got quotes from them. We ended up going with a dual fuel system for various reasons and are happy with it.

[Anonymous]

My experience in Arlington with a major brand top-of-the-line high-efficiency heat pump which is about 8 years old is that it works very well UNTIL outside temps are roughly 25 F or below. Around that outside temperature it starts to use very expensive “electric resistance” heat (which is its backup heating element).

So I do not blame the installer for being reluctant. Many people who move to a heat pump solution become angry/upset with the company which installed it after their winter heating bill soars on very cold days. HVAC Companies try to protect themselves by recommending solutions without that hidden cost, and I do not blame them one bit. My neighbor had exactly that poor behavior the first winter after he replaced gas furnace with a heat pump. He had been cautioned against it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My experience in Arlington with a major brand top-of-the-line high-efficiency heat pump which is about 8 years old is that it works very well UNTIL outside temps are roughly 25 F or below. Around that outside temperature it starts to use very expensive “electric resistance” heat (which is its backup heating element).

So I do not blame the installer for being reluctant. Many people who move to a heat pump solution become angry/upset with the company which installed it after their winter heating bill soars on very cold days. HVAC Companies try to protect themselves by recommending solutions without that hidden cost, and I do not blame them one bit. My neighbor had exactly that poor behavior the first winter after he replaced gas furnace with a heat pump. He had been cautioned against it.

There are heat pumps now that can work at very low temps. They need to be properly sized, and it becomes a little complicated in the DMV climate because you need the heat pump for heating and cooling. Most houses that are not built to current code are going to have a higher heating load than cooling load. So if you only have a heat pump you need to get a big one, that will be oversized for cooling which makes it inefficient in the summer and can cause humidity issues.

[Anonymous]

BMC Clower installed ours last year. No problems so far!

[Anonymous]

OP Here.

I guess I should have specified that I'm looking for a "cold-climate air source heat pump."

Here's a blurb from New York
"Modern cold-climate air source heat pump engineering has evolved to include features that were not available a decade ago, such as variable-speed, inverter-driven compressor technology and improved defrost-cycle controls. As a result, today’s cold-climate air source heat pumps work in very cold weather and are capable of meeting up to 100% of a New York home’s heating needs. While it is true that in years past, traditional air source heat pumps were less effective when temperatures dropped below freezing, a modern cold-climate heat pump... does not have these challenges. In fact, research shows that cold-climate heat pumps can provide comfortable domestic heating when it is as cold as -15°F outside — and that’s air temperature, not wind chill!"

Recently manufactured, high end, high efficiency "normal" heat pumps are just not what I'm looking for precisely because they don't work very well below freezing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:BMC Clower installed ours last year. No problems so far!

Not OP, but did you also do an electric heat pump water heater? Seems like the water heater is likely to fail in our house before the furnace.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP Here.

I guess I should have specified that I'm looking for a "cold-climate air source heat pump."

Here's a blurb from New York
"Modern cold-climate air source heat pump engineering has evolved to include features that were not available a decade ago, such as variable-speed, inverter-driven compressor technology and improved defrost-cycle controls. As a result, today’s cold-climate air source heat pumps work in very cold weather and are capable of meeting up to 100% of a New York home’s heating needs. While it is true that in years past, traditional air source heat pumps were less effective when temperatures dropped below freezing, a modern cold-climate heat pump... does not have these challenges. In fact, research shows that cold-climate heat pumps can provide comfortable domestic heating when it is as cold as -15°F outside — and that’s air temperature, not wind chill!"

Recently manufactured, high end, high efficiency "normal" heat pumps are just not what I'm looking for precisely because they don't work very well below freezing.

I would suggest researching specific models and manufacturers which meet your specifications, then looking for local dealers of those specific brands. Otherwise, the phrase “heat pump” might cause you to inadvertently get a normal HE heat pump, when that seems not to be what you want,

[Anonymous]

I think some installers don't get the appeal of heat pumps because if you have natural gas and are switching from that, your utility bills may very well go up with a heat pump. Natural gas is really cheap and electricity is expensive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think some installers don't get the appeal of heat pumps because if you have natural gas and are switching from that, your utility bills may very well go up with a heat pump. Natural gas is really cheap and electricity is expensive.

this.

we need to replace our furnace and just got 3 quotes and i asked each place about heat pumps. they gave us the option of "duel fuel" which is essentially heat pump until a certain temp and then switches over to gas furnace.... but would be more expensive to run since electricity is expensive. probably better for carbon footprint and good if you have solar but our house is too shady. also costs a lot more to install

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think some installers don't get the appeal of heat pumps because if you have natural gas and are switching from that, your utility bills may very well go up with a heat pump. Natural gas is really cheap and electricity is expensive.

this.

we need to replace our furnace and just got 3 quotes and i asked each place about heat pumps. they gave us the option of "duel fuel" which is essentially heat pump until a certain temp and then switches over to gas furnace.... but would be more expensive to run since electricity is expensive. probably better for carbon footprint and good if you have solar but our house is too shady. also costs a lot more to install

Huh, we have dual fuel and our utility bills are lower than before. Below 35 degrees the furnace is less expensive to run but above it the heat pump is efficient enough that it is cheaper to run even with the high cost of electricity. We're also hoping to get a $2k tax credit on this year's taxes for installing the heat pump.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My experience in Arlington with a major brand top-of-the-line high-efficiency heat pump which is about 8 years old is that it works very well UNTIL outside temps are roughly 25 F or below. Around that outside temperature it starts to use very expensive “electric resistance” heat (which is its backup heating element).

So I do not blame the installer for being reluctant. Many people who move to a heat pump solution become angry/upset with the company which installed it after their winter heating bill soars on very cold days. HVAC Companies try to protect themselves by recommending solutions without that hidden cost, and I do not blame them one bit. My neighbor had exactly that poor behavior the first winter after he replaced gas furnace with a heat pump. He had been cautioned against it.

This is exactly why you want a cold weather heat pump, and why you want to get someone who knows what he's doing to install it.

The cold weather models lose much less capacity at colder temperatures, they typically have about 95% of their 50-degree capacity at 0F. A regular heat pump might keep half of its capacity at that temperature. The technology for cold weather is called "vapor injection," different manufacturers have different trade names for it. I know Mitsubishi's version goes under the "Hyper Heat" name and is well-regarded.

[Anonymous]

OP Here.

Been slogging through this process and here's the current state of it.

Finding the equipment I want and then finding a dealer is doubly challenging. For one, it is difficult to identify the equipment. Second, some of the dealers aren't that helpful.

My regular HVAC company sent out a sales guy and we had a good discussion. He said he was averse to what I wanted but admitted this his aversion was irrational and that he's slowly realizing the truth. But I've been waiting weeks for a quote since the manufacturers are supposedly currently changing up their models.

A second company I found that carries an acceptable product paid me a visit and said they don't recommend what I'm looking for. "I'll sell you this system, but I don't recommend it."

A third company, Tran Energy Services, seems like just the ticket. And I only found them after seeking a referral from an energy efficiency non-profit.

Seems like I'll go with option 3 and see how it goes.

[Anonymous]

How did it go OP? I heard last year more heat pumps were sold than furnaces.

I'm looking for a reasonably priced but knowledgeable installer in DC who can size my home appropriately. And I wouldn't say no to an energy audit.

[Anonymous]

fwiw, we have a head pump. Emergency heat never turned on when we had those arctic temps a few weeks ago. But I suspect the reason is:

- we keep our household temps pretty conservative, 63-65.
- during that arctic snap, we never made wild temperature swings. Only 1-2 degree changes at a time, max. Usually we stayed consistent.

If you're the type of household that likes 65/night and 75/day all year round, then it's probably not the system for you.