Biden wants RTO

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:During the pandemic all these downtown businesses got lavish bailouts like PPP, etc. And now years later they still want even more subsidies? The world has moved on and nobody with a computer needs to commute anymore. Time for these laggards to adjust, or else we should also bring back the horse and carriage industry - fair is fair.

Let me try this..

"During the pandemic these downtown workers got extreme flexibilities to stay at home and even got checks in the mail from the government with no strings attached. And now years later they still want these benefits? The world has moved on and there is no need to stay separated at home anymore. Time for people to adjust, or else we should all keep movie theaters and restaurants and churches closed- fair is fair."

Here, lets try this:

Workers in the US and around the world have effectively shown that they can successfully work from home. It isn't employees responsibility to support failing businesses who refuse to change their business model to reflect the changes. Likewise, some people have immune compromised family members and forcing them back into the office, can greatly impact that family members health. If an employee is under preforming, they should be terminated.

NP. I disagree with your premise. WFH 100% was an extreme struggle in the beginning, then we limped along and eventually got better at it. But then as time wore on, it got harder again. New employees came on and basically crashed and burned. They had no contacts, couldn't reach people, couldn't get their work done and didn't integrate well. People just don't network well remotely. Almost 4 years later, about 30% of our office is new hires since 2020. We don't have adequate fed collaboration tools. And the ones we do have? They're FOIAable. Who wants new reporters reading every chat they wrote to coworkers?

Fed managers also have pretty much no tools to get their employees to get their work done remotely. I did put people on PIPs but it was a full time job. Whereas in person PIPs are much easier to manage. Fed managers can't see if their employees are working. We often have long term deliverables. Bob says he's working SO hard (and even shows a few docs/pages complete)! But then completely drops the ball and you don't find out until certain drafts are due.

So to say that feds should RTO, it's not the same as private sector RTO. Private sector can fire very easily.

np, I see what you are saying and i don't disagree with some of it but... training new staff is your job, not mine. why should i spend two hours every day just because you didn't plan your job correctly? Your entire second paragraph is, again, your job too. The fact you are unable to handle your staff, shouldn't be my problem. you need to move on from "i have to SEE you to MANAGE you" approach. Those days are done and gone.

Actually it's not. Welcoming new staff is everyone's job. I even assign different tasks to each one of my employees to train the new employee on. This lets them all meet the new employee too. Most of what my new hires struggle with is meeting contacts (needed for their jobs) in other divisions. I don't manage those other divisions and can't force them to play well in the sandbox.

They can welcome new employees but it is your responsibility to mentor and train. Supervisors train.

Only low level employee think that. You think higher level employees get any training from their supervisors?! If I need to know something, I have to go figure it out myself. People are relying on their fed supervisors way too much. I can't imagine asking my boss even half the questions that I get asked on a daily basis.

I am a 15 so not THAT low. You are simply not my responsibility. I didn't interview you, I didn't hire you, I frankly had nothing to do with you being here. I am not against you - reach out to me if any questions, any time. I will spend time to talk with you and whatever help you need to get you off the ground. Do I need to come in just in case you have questions? I hope not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:During the pandemic all these downtown businesses got lavish bailouts like PPP, etc. And now years later they still want even more subsidies? The world has moved on and nobody with a computer needs to commute anymore. Time for these laggards to adjust, or else we should also bring back the horse and carriage industry - fair is fair.

Let me try this..

"During the pandemic these downtown workers got extreme flexibilities to stay at home and even got checks in the mail from the government with no strings attached. And now years later they still want these benefits? The world has moved on and there is no need to stay separated at home anymore. Time for people to adjust, or else we should all keep movie theaters and restaurants and churches closed- fair is fair."

Here, lets try this:

Workers in the US and around the world have effectively shown that they can successfully work from home. It isn't employees responsibility to support failing businesses who refuse to change their business model to reflect the changes. Likewise, some people have immune compromised family members and forcing them back into the office, can greatly impact that family members health. If an employee is under preforming, they should be terminated.

NP. I disagree with your premise. WFH 100% was an extreme struggle in the beginning, then we limped along and eventually got better at it. But then as time wore on, it got harder again. New employees came on and basically crashed and burned. They had no contacts, couldn't reach people, couldn't get their work done and didn't integrate well. People just don't network well remotely. Almost 4 years later, about 30% of our office is new hires since 2020. We don't have adequate fed collaboration tools. And the ones we do have? They're FOIAable. Who wants new reporters reading every chat they wrote to coworkers?

Fed managers also have pretty much no tools to get their employees to get their work done remotely. I did put people on PIPs but it was a full time job. Whereas in person PIPs are much easier to manage. Fed managers can't see if their employees are working. We often have long term deliverables. Bob says he's working SO hard (and even shows a few docs/pages complete)! But then completely drops the ball and you don't find out until certain drafts are due.

So to say that feds should RTO, it's not the same as private sector RTO. Private sector can fire very easily.

np, I see what you are saying and i don't disagree with some of it but... training new staff is your job, not mine. why should i spend two hours every day just because you didn't plan your job correctly? Your entire second paragraph is, again, your job too. The fact you are unable to handle your staff, shouldn't be my problem. you need to move on from "i have to SEE you to MANAGE you" approach. Those days are done and gone.

Actually it's not. Welcoming new staff is everyone's job. I even assign different tasks to each one of my employees to train the new employee on. This lets them all meet the new employee too. Most of what my new hires struggle with is meeting contacts (needed for their jobs) in other divisions. I don't manage those other divisions and can't force them to play well in the sandbox.

They can welcome new employees but it is your responsibility to mentor and train. Supervisors train.

Only low level employee think that. You think higher level employees get any training from their supervisors?! If I need to know something, I have to go figure it out myself. People are relying on their fed supervisors way too much. I can't imagine asking my boss even half the questions that I get asked on a daily basis.

I am a 15 so not THAT low. You are simply not my responsibility. I didn't interview you, I didn't hire you, I frankly had nothing to do with you being here. I am not against you - reach out to me if any questions, any time. I will spend time to talk with you and whatever help you need to get you off the ground. Do I need to come in just in case you have questions? I hope not.

I think you're responding to the wrong pp. That person is saying that people need to figure things out themselves.

[Anonymous]

I get that some people want to wfh forever but you're hearing from multiple managers that it can be harder to train people and get work done with everyone at home. I know we are an inherently selfish culture and all of this is not your problem, but didn't anyone beyond your supervisor ever stop by your desk and give you some tips or answer a few questions when you were new? You feel no obligation to be that person for someone else? This attitude is why I sometimes feel embarrassed to be a civil servant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I get that some people want to wfh forever but you're hearing from multiple managers that it can be harder to train people and get work done with everyone at home. I know we are an inherently selfish culture and all of this is not your problem, but didn't anyone beyond your supervisor ever stop by your desk and give you some tips or answer a few questions when you were new? You feel no obligation to be that person for someone else? This attitude is why I sometimes feel embarrassed to be a civil servant.

Many of my coworkers do not work in the DC area. I can be in the office and will still be having e calls with them. It is better for everyone to have meetings from home so you do not disturb the person who is stuck in the cube next to you. Do you get that part?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I get that some people want to wfh forever but you're hearing from multiple managers that it can be harder to train people and get work done with everyone at home. I know we are an inherently selfish culture and all of this is not your problem, but didn't anyone beyond your supervisor ever stop by your desk and give you some tips or answer a few questions when you were new? You feel no obligation to be that person for someone else? This attitude is why I sometimes feel embarrassed to be a civil servant.

Most managers don’t train anymore. They can do that by phone or zoom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I get that some people want to wfh forever but you're hearing from multiple managers that it can be harder to train people and get work done with everyone at home. I know we are an inherently selfish culture and all of this is not your problem, but didn't anyone beyond your supervisor ever stop by your desk and give you some tips or answer a few questions when you were new? You feel no obligation to be that person for someone else? This attitude is why I sometimes feel embarrassed to be a civil servant.

No, honestly, I don't feel obligated to be that person PP. Certainly not to the point of going in and sit in my office all day just to answer questions the newbies may (or may not) have. Anyone can reach out to me in 10 sec. Walking down to my office will take longer than that. We got Team/Zoom service my department is already paying for that purpose. I also don't think I am being selfish. I just don't see the point. It is management's job to articulate their reasoning and it needs to be more than "collaboration", "new hires", and other soft reasons. If they can't do that, it's on them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:During the pandemic all these downtown businesses got lavish bailouts like PPP, etc. And now years later they still want even more subsidies? The world has moved on and nobody with a computer needs to commute anymore. Time for these laggards to adjust, or else we should also bring back the horse and carriage industry - fair is fair.

Let me try this..

"During the pandemic these downtown workers got extreme flexibilities to stay at home and even got checks in the mail from the government with no strings attached. And now years later they still want these benefits? The world has moved on and there is no need to stay separated at home anymore. Time for people to adjust, or else we should all keep movie theaters and restaurants and churches closed- fair is fair."

Here, lets try this:

Workers in the US and around the world have effectively shown that they can successfully work from home. It isn't employees responsibility to support failing businesses who refuse to change their business model to reflect the changes. Likewise, some people have immune compromised family members and forcing them back into the office, can greatly impact that family members health. If an employee is under preforming, they should be terminated.

NP. I disagree with your premise. WFH 100% was an extreme struggle in the beginning, then we limped along and eventually got better at it. But then as time wore on, it got harder again. New employees came on and basically crashed and burned. They had no contacts, couldn't reach people, couldn't get their work done and didn't integrate well. People just don't network well remotely. Almost 4 years later, about 30% of our office is new hires since 2020. We don't have adequate fed collaboration tools. And the ones we do have? They're FOIAable. Who wants new reporters reading every chat they wrote to coworkers?

Fed managers also have pretty much no tools to get their employees to get their work done remotely. I did put people on PIPs but it was a full time job. Whereas in person PIPs are much easier to manage. Fed managers can't see if their employees are working. We often have long term deliverables. Bob says he's working SO hard (and even shows a few docs/pages complete)! But then completely drops the ball and you don't find out until certain drafts are due.

So to say that feds should RTO, it's not the same as private sector RTO. Private sector can fire very easily.

np, I see what you are saying and i don't disagree with some of it but... training new staff is your job, not mine. why should i spend two hours every day just because you didn't plan your job correctly? Your entire second paragraph is, again, your job too. The fact you are unable to handle your staff, shouldn't be my problem. you need to move on from "i have to SEE you to MANAGE you" approach. Those days are done and gone.

+1 to the part about the second paragraph. The PP sounds like a terrible manager. Seriously it's not that hard to set deliverables and deadlines and in person or remote shouldn't make a difference. If performance isn't up to par PIP and then terminate them. I also don't believe that these underperformed will all of a sudden become acceptable performers in the office. It's been my experience that good workers do good work wherever they decide to work.

I'm an excellent manager actually. Some differences: in office, employees stopped by and asked me more questions. When they got stuck they just asked. Remotely, they just sit on it and don't ask questions. I've even made myself available daily for "office hours" and they are afraid to ask. Our jobs are difficult and very technical. For my newest hire, I have a weekly meeting just with her, but it's still not enough. She lets things sit until our weekly meeting (there are team meetings as well, this one meeting is just us).

I'm not asking to see them to manage them. It's more the other way around. They can't work effectively unless they learn teamwork. And the way federal offices are set up (and our lack of collaboration tools), teamwork remotely isn't easy. As a manager I'm there to help them achieve their tasks and provide expert advice.

The guy that I fired was actually a good performer in office, but during the pandemic he just stopped doing work at all. I think he just couldn't focus at home.

I personally do a great job remotely, but I'm at a high enough level that I don't need any more networking. I know how to get my job done. Not all feds are at that level or have been in their jobs long enough. The feds who are at my level though, aren't sharing their expertise or knowledge.

You may feel you are a good manager but others may not and just humor you. Ironic you are complaining about others work habits and you are on here. Maybe some don’t feel you are approachable or knowledgeable once they have worked with you a while. If you are not a manager or trying to be you don’t owe it to do your supervisors job and train.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get that some people want to wfh forever but you're hearing from multiple managers that it can be harder to train people and get work done with everyone at home. I know we are an inherently selfish culture and all of this is not your problem, but didn't anyone beyond your supervisor ever stop by your desk and give you some tips or answer a few questions when you were new? You feel no obligation to be that person for someone else? This attitude is why I sometimes feel embarrassed to be a civil servant.

Many of my coworkers do not work in the DC area. I can be in the office and will still be having e calls with them. It is better for everyone to have meetings from home so you do not disturb the person who is stuck in the cube next to you. Do you get that part?

How is having a call in the cube next to someone disturbing them? Wouldn't you have some interacting with them during the day that could be meaningful?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get that some people want to wfh forever but you're hearing from multiple managers that it can be harder to train people and get work done with everyone at home. I know we are an inherently selfish culture and all of this is not your problem, but didn't anyone beyond your supervisor ever stop by your desk and give you some tips or answer a few questions when you were new? You feel no obligation to be that person for someone else? This attitude is why I sometimes feel embarrassed to be a civil servant.

Many of my coworkers do not work in the DC area. I can be in the office and will still be having e calls with them. It is better for everyone to have meetings from home so you do not disturb the person who is stuck in the cube next to you. Do you get that part?

How is having a call in the cube next to someone disturbing them? Wouldn't you have some interacting with them during the day that could be meaningful?

? do you work?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get that some people want to wfh forever but you're hearing from multiple managers that it can be harder to train people and get work done with everyone at home. I know we are an inherently selfish culture and all of this is not your problem, but didn't anyone beyond your supervisor ever stop by your desk and give you some tips or answer a few questions when you were new? You feel no obligation to be that person for someone else? This attitude is why I sometimes feel embarrassed to be a civil servant.

Many of my coworkers do not work in the DC area. I can be in the office and will still be having e calls with them. It is better for everyone to have meetings from home so you do not disturb the person who is stuck in the cube next to you. Do you get that part?

How is having a call in the cube next to someone disturbing them? Wouldn't you have some interacting with them during the day that could be meaningful?

Yes listening to a call in a cube next to you that has nothing to do with you is disruptive. The time I spend chit chatting with the person next to me is wasted time that I do not have a home. We are likely discussing the weather, my cat or his kids. We do not work on the same project so it will not be work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get that some people want to wfh forever but you're hearing from multiple managers that it can be harder to train people and get work done with everyone at home. I know we are an inherently selfish culture and all of this is not your problem, but didn't anyone beyond your supervisor ever stop by your desk and give you some tips or answer a few questions when you were new? You feel no obligation to be that person for someone else? This attitude is why I sometimes feel embarrassed to be a civil servant.

Many of my coworkers do not work in the DC area. I can be in the office and will still be having e calls with them. It is better for everyone to have meetings from home so you do not disturb the person who is stuck in the cube next to you. Do you get that part?

How is having a call in the cube next to someone disturbing them? Wouldn't you have some interacting with them during the day that could be meaningful?

Usually you aren’t working with coworkers and if it’s just a few minutes a call is fine. You have a dozen people in a room all on calls it’s loud and distracting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get that some people want to wfh forever but you're hearing from multiple managers that it can be harder to train people and get work done with everyone at home. I know we are an inherently selfish culture and all of this is not your problem, but didn't anyone beyond your supervisor ever stop by your desk and give you some tips or answer a few questions when you were new? You feel no obligation to be that person for someone else? This attitude is why I sometimes feel embarrassed to be a civil servant.

Many of my coworkers do not work in the DC area. I can be in the office and will still be having e calls with them. It is better for everyone to have meetings from home so you do not disturb the person who is stuck in the cube next to you. Do you get that part?

How is having a call in the cube next to someone disturbing them? Wouldn't you have some interacting with them during the day that could be meaningful?

? do you work?

They are here hiding in their private office.

[Anonymous]

i just hope they set up hoteling tables right next to microwave. gonna high nuke my fish for 30 min. one that smells the worst

[Anonymous]

Managers - you cannot reason with most of these people, they want to be obstinate and unreasonable. Our only hope is an EO or law that forces people back to their offices again. Three years of conversations and listening have been fruitless and they are more intransigent. Stop engaging with these folks, there is a reason none of them have been promoted into management.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I get that some people want to wfh forever but you're hearing from multiple managers that it can be harder to train people and get work done with everyone at home. I know we are an inherently selfish culture and all of this is not your problem, but didn't anyone beyond your supervisor ever stop by your desk and give you some tips or answer a few questions when you were new? You feel no obligation to be that person for someone else? This attitude is why I sometimes feel embarrassed to be a civil servant.

Ever heard of Zoom, WebEx or Teams?