no lottery for local CES program math & literacy ?

[Anonymous]

Teacher tell me that my kid is expected get math enrichment starting at 4th grade because she is really great at math. I thought it is something lottery based, and they say it is not true because we have local programs unless we want to go to apply for different ES. Our school is one of the few schools that have local programs for CES. Because we have local CES program, so lottery & cutoff for math and literacy enrichment does not apply to us? She is currently above reading level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Teacher tell me that my kid is expected get math enrichment starting at 4th grade because she is really great at math. I thought it is something lottery based, and they say it is not true because we have local programs unless we want to go to apply for different ES. Our school is one of the few schools that have local programs for CES. Because we have local CES program, so lottery & cutoff for math and literacy enrichment does not apply to us? She is currently above reading level.

Math enrichment isn't related to the CES and last I knew was a function of the student's MAP-M score.

[Anonymous]

PS the CES is still lottery even for your local one

[Anonymous]

They say it's lottery based but I have yet see an intellectually challenged student in the program. Maybe they mean it's lottery based for the students who score highly?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They say it's lottery based but I have yet see an intellectually challenged student in the program. Maybe they mean it's lottery based for the students who score highly?

Yes this

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They say it's lottery based but I have yet see an intellectually challenged student in the program. Maybe they mean it's lottery based for the students who score highly?

Yes, of course they mean this. There is no such thing as a "true" lottery in mcps. The thumb is always on the scale somehow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They say it's lottery based but I have yet see an intellectually challenged student in the program. Maybe they mean it's lottery based for the students who score highly?

It's a limited lottery. For example, at a low-farms school you need to have test scores in the top 5% nationally to be in the lottery pool then maybe 1 in 5 get picked from the pool. Schools that feed into the same CES center are typically (not always) similar in terms of SES.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Teacher tell me that my kid is expected get math enrichment starting at 4th grade because she is really great at math. I thought it is something lottery based, and they say it is not true because we have local programs unless we want to go to apply for different ES. Our school is one of the few schools that have local programs for CES. Because we have local CES program, so lottery & cutoff for math and literacy enrichment does not apply to us? She is currently above reading level.

Compacted Math 4/5 is based solely on the student't achievement in Math and is at every school.

CES lottery is based on Reading MAP and grades. Having a local CES does not guarantee you a spot, even in a low FARMS school. There are 13 kids at our school who did not make the lottery but are in the Enriched Literacy Curriculum.

I think the teacher is trying to say that your child will likely qualify for enrichment whether or not they get a lottery CES spot.

As a parent with a kid who is on the CES waiting list, CES at our school would be preferred to the in-school enrichment. CES is one seamless program with one teacher. My kid has a general ed. homeroom where they do Science and Social Studies, they go to the ELC with a different teacher, and they go to Compacted Math with one of the CES teachers. They do specials with their homeroom as well. It is a lot to keep up with and much more like middle school than I would expect in 4th grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teacher tell me that my kid is expected get math enrichment starting at 4th grade because she is really great at math. I thought it is something lottery based, and they say it is not true because we have local programs unless we want to go to apply for different ES. Our school is one of the few schools that have local programs for CES. Because we have local CES program, so lottery & cutoff for math and literacy enrichment does not apply to us? She is currently above reading level.

Compacted Math 4/5 is based solely on the student't achievement in Math and is at every school.

CES lottery is based on Reading MAP and grades. Having a local CES does not guarantee you a spot, even in a low FARMS school. There are 13 kids at our school who did not make the lottery but are in the Enriched Literacy Curriculum.

I think the teacher is trying to say that your child will likely qualify for enrichment whether or not they get a lottery CES spot.

As a parent with a kid who is on the CES waiting list, CES at our school would be preferred to the in-school enrichment. CES is one seamless program with one teacher. My kid has a general ed. homeroom where they do Science and Social Studies, they go to the ELC with a different teacher, and they go to Compacted Math with one of the CES teachers. They do specials with their homeroom as well. It is a lot to keep up with and much more like middle school than I would expect in 4th grade.

Not necessarily. Sometimes CES teachers are departmentalized too.

[Anonymous]

Op here. I had mentioned the key word "CES" to teacher at our 1:1 parent teacher conference. The conversation from the meeting confused me further since she mentioned how advanced my daughter in math & she is given some literacy enrichmebt homework now. I thought that meant she will be guaranteed in with teacher recommendation or something. She is currently 2nd grade. Thank you for clarification. She has records of high achievers since k.

So, compacted math 4/5 (math enrichment) is not lottery based, but based on MAP-M result. Local CES is lottery based to get in, and it is based on Reading MAP.
CogAT or other gifted letter does not have any effects on both math or CES selection. If a kid cannot get in local CES but score is high enough, there's an option for enriched literacy curriculum. Overall, CES is better than enriched literacy curriculum, equivalent to AAP in Fairfax. Is my conclusion correct?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op here. I had mentioned the key word "CES" to teacher at our 1:1 parent teacher conference. The conversation from the meeting confused me further since she mentioned how advanced my daughter in math & she is given some literacy enrichmebt homework now. I thought that meant she will be guaranteed in with teacher recommendation or something. She is currently 2nd grade. Thank you for clarification. She has records of high achievers since k.

So, compacted math 4/5 (math enrichment) is not lottery based, but based on MAP-M result. Local CES is lottery based to get in, and it is based on Reading MAP.
CogAT or other gifted letter does not have any effects on both math or CES selection. If a kid cannot get in local CES but score is high enough, there's an option for enriched literacy curriculum. Overall, CES is better than enriched literacy curriculum, equivalent to AAP in Fairfax. Is my conclusion correct?

The CES pool is created by the central office based on grades, MAP-R scores, FARM status, ESOL status, etc. Selection is done by lottery.

[Anonymous]

Having had two kids in the CES, I can tell you that compacted math 4/5 is a different program. CES is a lottery based program focused on Reading, Writing, Science, and Social studies. Strictly speaking, kids selected for compacted math (based on their test scores) do not need to be in CES. It just happens that the majority of kids in CES also qualify for compacted math 4/5, therefore the overlap (and the confusion) between the two programs.

[Anonymous]

There are three enrichment program options for ES all of which begin at 4th grade.

- Compacted Math- Students do 1 1/2 years of math in one SY. Math 4/5 covers all of 4th and 1/2 of 5 grade math. Math5/6 covers 2nd half of 5th grade math and all of 6th grade math. Students are not required to continue in the program if the acceleration is too much.

- CES - A central review of all 3rd grade students is done to determine a pool of students needing enrichment and qualifying for CES. From this pool a lottery is done to determine who is invited to CES. Invited students can accepted or decline. If declined invitation goes to next person on wait list. All students in the pool will be automatically eligible for ELC at their home school if not invited to the CES program.

-Enriched Literacy Curriculum (ELC) - Seems to mimic the English/writing/analysis that is available in the CES program at each elementary school for students needing enrichment. All students who qualify for the CES pool will automatically be in ELC if they remain in their home school. Principals also have the leeway to add in some students who based on scores and teacher recommendation appear would benefit from enrichment. This is usually students on were on the cusp of the cutoff for the CES pool or having Ben centrales identified as gifted. Some schools have gone to a while school ELC model. Not sure how this is working.

Students can be in ELC without being in Compacted math and the reverse. Same is true at the CES program that students will take the math appropriate for them.

Gifted identification is separate from all of the above. While Gifted students should receive the appropriate enrichment, it does not have to be one of the three programs above.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are three enrichment program options for ES all of which begin at 4th grade.

- Compacted Math- Students do 1 1/2 years of math in one SY. Math 4/5 covers all of 4th and 1/2 of 5 grade math. Math5/6 covers 2nd half of 5th grade math and all of 6th grade math. Students are not required to continue in the program if the acceleration is too much.

- CES - A central review of all 3rd grade students is done to determine a pool of students needing enrichment and qualifying for CES. From this pool a lottery is done to determine who is invited to CES. Invited students can accepted or decline. If declined invitation goes to next person on wait list. All students in the pool will be automatically eligible for ELC at their home school if not invited to the CES program.

-Enriched Literacy Curriculum (ELC) - Seems to mimic the English/writing/analysis that is available in the CES program at each elementary school for students needing enrichment. All students who qualify for the CES pool will automatically be in ELC if they remain in their home school. Principals also have the leeway to add in some students who based on scores and teacher recommendation appear would benefit from enrichment. This is usually students on were on the cusp of the cutoff for the CES pool or having Ben centrales identified as gifted. Some schools have gone to a while school ELC model. Not sure how this is working.

Students can be in ELC without being in Compacted math and the reverse. Same is true at the CES program that students will take the math appropriate for them.

Gifted identification is separate from all of the above. While Gifted students should receive the appropriate enrichment, it does not have to be one of the three programs above.

Thank you so much for this! Two f/u questions:

1. Do you know—are kids in full immersion programs also considered for CES?

2. How does gifted identification/follow-through happen—who initiates it, how is this status established, and what happens to the kid once it is? Is there a lottery element to this the same way there is for CES?