Is this typical for Independent Living Agreements?

[Anonymous]

My elderly relative is moving to an independent senior living place. The facility has an attachment to the lease that asks for his personal representative to sign. Currently, he is of sound mind, but if that changes as determined by 2 physicians, I will have power of attorney.

One of the statements on the attachment I’ve been told to sign reads:

“The undersigned hereby unconditionally guarantees payment of all of the obligations of the
Resident that may become due under the Agreement pursuant to their appointed tiduciary duty as
Authorized Representative or their signature on the lease. This guaranty shall notbe terminated
by reason of any renewal or extension of the Agreement, or by any other modification of the
Agreement, or by the death or disability of the Resident if there are outstanding amounts dueafter
the termination of the Agreement.”

I have put a call into an estate attorney, but in the mean time, I’m starting to get anxious. I did not anticipate signing anything as a personal rep for someone who is in control of their mental state. Is this typically asked of someone who may have PoA in the future? (There is a clause in the PoA that if I cannot perform the duties, the second named person will take over.)

I am concerned that this language will make me responsible for his debts if I cannot play (like a co-signer). The facility of course says that’s not the case, but the UNCONDITIONALLY term has me a bit worried. Of course, I would pay with his money, but I can’t afford his bills otherwise. He’s much more well-off than me though neither of us are super wealthy.

Let this thread be a heads up for anyone in my situation in the future.

[Anonymous]

No answer but thanks for posting Op

[Anonymous]

Is there a continuous care component to this Over 55 community?

[Anonymous]

I read this to mean that if you gain control of your father's assets you agree to keep paying from those assets as is your fiduciary responsibility. I don't read this to make you personally liable but its worth asking the Independent Living place and get your lawyer's opinion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is there a continuous care component to this Over 55 community?

No. Ugh. And the rep says that signing this is not optional and they say they won’t talk to his lawyer to clarify the terms. I
Had to three estate lawyers mine and two others in my uncle’s state review it. (I left messages for a couple and they both responded.) They said that the wording is too ambiguous to tell if I’ll be liable for expenses if my uncle cannot pay.

My uncle doesn’t understand why they are asking me to sign anything when he has a “springboard” PoA that takes effect if he’s incapacitated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I read this to mean that if you gain control of your father's assets you agree to keep paying from those assets as is your fiduciary responsibility. I don't read this to make you personally liable but its worth asking the Independent Living place and get your lawyer's opinion.

That’s the interpretation I’m hoping to confirm. The lawyers I spoke to say that the wording is too ambiguous though. My uncles lawyer plans to call tomorrow. Hopefully, they will talk to him and clear things up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there a continuous care component to this Over 55 community?

No. Ugh. And the rep says that signing this is not optional and they say they won’t talk to his lawyer to clarify the terms. I
Had to three estate lawyers mine and two others in my uncle’s state review it. (I left messages for a couple and they both responded.) They said that the wording is too ambiguous to tell if I’ll be liable for expenses if my uncle cannot pay.

My uncle doesn’t understand why they are asking me to sign anything when he has a “springboard” PoA that takes effect if he’s incapacitated.

We have a sh!tty ambiguous contract that you have to sign
uh, no thanks?

[Anonymous]

Not a lawyer, but when we went through this we made sure we were not *personally signing our names. Make clear you are signing as POA.

https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/how-to-sign-a-power-of-attorney-document-for-someone

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not a lawyer, but when we went through this we made sure we were not *personally signing our names. Make clear you are signing as POA.

https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/how-to-sign-a-power-of-attorney-document-for-someone

But that’s part of the issue — I cannot sign as the PoA bc my powers don’t take effect until two doctors say he cannot make decisions for himself. I agree with the PoA as written. I’m not trying to take authority away from my uncle.

[Anonymous]

If you sign, write in that you are signing solely “as agent for x”.

If x outlives his/her funds, then they can’t come after you for payment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you sign, write in that you are signing solely “as agent for x”.

If x outlives his/her funds, then they can’t come after you for payment.

If they try to come after you, you can tell them to pound sand.

[Anonymous]

I should also add that the paper the IL facility wants my and me to sign is to make him his personal representative, which seems like it would get messy with the springboard PoA already set up.

The rep says it’s to make sure that if my uncle is in the hospital when rent comes due that I’ll make sure the rent is paid. But that seems like the POA would already cover that.

Complicating matter is that my uncle decided to seek his house before signing the lease and moving in. The house sale is already at the inspection phase.

My uncle supposedly has plenty of money — but one never knows how much may be left in the future. There could be nothing left. He could be scammed. He could injury someone while driving.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I should also add that the paper the IL facility wants my and me to sign is to make him his personal representative, which seems like it would get messy with the springboard PoA already set up.

The rep says it’s to make sure that if my uncle is in the hospital when rent comes due that I’ll make sure the rent is paid. But that seems like the POA would already cover that.

Complicating matter is that my uncle decided to seek his house before signing the lease and moving in. The house sale is already at the inspection phase.

My uncle supposedly has plenty of money — but one never knows how much may be left in the future. There could be nothing left. He could be scammed. He could injury someone while driving.

Gah! Thumb typing on a phone — the IL wants to make me what the call a “personal representative” outside the PoA.

[Anonymous]

But talk to an elder attorney for clarification of the language you would need to write in.

Also, strike through any terms that you disagree with.

If they give you a hard time, find another senior housing place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there a continuous care component to this Over 55 community?

No. Ugh. And the rep says that signing this is not optional and they say they won’t talk to his lawyer to clarify the terms. I
Had to three estate lawyers mine and two others in my uncle’s state review it. (I left messages for a couple and they both responded.) They said that the wording is too ambiguous to tell if I’ll be liable for expenses if my uncle cannot pay.

My uncle doesn’t understand why they are asking me to sign anything when he has a “springboard” PoA that takes effect if he’s incapacitated.

We have a sh!tty ambiguous contract that you have to sign
uh, no thanks?

uh, so your answer to OP is to move their parent? try to be helpful here.