Scarcity of "elite college" slots in US relative to other countries
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Anonymous
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This is an interesting piece in Jeff Selingo's newsletter. But I don't see US elite colleges increasing their supply, so it's a bit of a moot point.
On a day when early-decision applications are due at many selective institutions, it’s important to remember one reason why these colleges remain “highly rejective” is because they choose to keep their freshman classes small. As Olivia Roark reports, the five top-ranked universities in the U.S. News & World Report rankings—Princeton, MIT, Harvard, Stanford and Yale—enroll about 6,400 freshmen in total each year and 32,000 undergrads in all. In the rest of the world, including Brazil, South Africa, and Canada, the top 5 universities have 100,000+ undergrads. 
What’s happening: Applications to selective colleges have jumped during the pandemic when most of the institutions dropped their testing requirements for admissions. But institutions didn’t expand their incoming classes; they just rejected more students. —Then two events this past summer put more pressure on selective colleges to either expand or rethink who they’re admitting. First was the Supreme Court decision that struck down race-conscious admissions. Second was the release of a report by economists showing wealthy applicants get into Ivy-plus schools at a higher rate than everyone else with the same SAT/ACT scores. View from the north: The top-ranked universities in Canada enroll way many more undergrads than those in the U.S. To fill the undergraduate seats at the five top-ranked universities in Canada with students from highly ranked U.S. institutions, you would basically need the undergrad population from the top 25 national universities in the U.S. News rankings. —In many ways, the U.S. is more like India. The top five Indian universities on the U.S. News Best Global Universities list enroll roughly 15,000 students. The institutions in India are astoundingly small for a country of 1.4 billion people. |
Anonymous
| It is all a social construct anyway. |
Anonymous
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"They choose to keep their freshman classes small."
Yet when a college with a finite campus expands with satellite options (Northeastern), we lose our minds. Some top schools could expand if they tossed up new dorms and made classes bigger, but the experience wouldn't be the same. If more people expanded the idea of what "elite" was, they might include more of the big state universities that definitely have room for their kid. |
Anonymous
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Canada system is so much better.
Of course these schools want to keep demand high. |
Anonymous
Yes that is what I meant by it is a social construct. Also, to expand means to find more professors. I think that is also a barrier. |
Anonymous
There is a vast oversupply of PhDs who want to be professors. The top schools certainly have the money to pay them. Not really a barrier. |
Anonymous
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I don't see keeping things small as a plus necessarily.
There are universities of all different sizes in the US. Not every kid wants to attend a school as big as U. Michigan. For many schools, something is lost the bigger the school gets. I attended a large state university and my intro courses were huge lecture hall courses and many of my required first year courses were taught by teaching assistants. Time with professors was very limited. I put my kids in a private high school of 950 kids because I didn't want them in our 3,000 student public which had lots of issues due to its size. |
Anonymous
| Other countries have fewer universities than we do so the top 5 is very different grouping. They have much more developed systems of further education colleges/tech training. |
Anonymous
| So you want everyone to get in and nobody to have to pay full price, correct? |
Anonymous
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I'm French. Our "elite" universities are extremely hard to get into. Have you heard of any of them? I bet you haven't. Yet parents are incredibly proud of their kids when they get in. Scarcity mindset. I have Canadian relatives. Are Canadians proud when their kid gets into their "elite" unis? Not that much. Because it's easier to get in! Reverse of scarcity mindset. Just say no to all that crap. Acknowledge that a well-known name on a diploma will open some doors, but that it's not worth stressing about and making your kid's life miserable just for that. |
Anonymous
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I thought this was interesting:
https://www.heritage.org/education/commentary/free-college-would-be-disaster-just-ask-europe Ultimately, England’s free college policy wound up hurting low-income students the most, as schools were forced to cap the number of students admitted. In fact, according to researchers at the National Bureau of Economic Research, “the gap in degree attainment between high- and low-income families more than doubled.” European countries that offer tuition-free higher education also struggle with the issue of completion. Finland, for example, ranks first among all OECD countries in terms of subsidies for higher education, with 96% of all higher education funding coming from public sources. However, Finland ranks 25th among OECD countries for degree attainment. France famously touts its tuition-free university system. Seldom, however, do their boasts note that almost 50% of French students drop out or fail out after just their first year. |
Anonymous
Nah. Those schools could increase their supply 5x, keep their acceptance rates at 5%, and still get plenty of takers for "full pay". |
Anonymous
Just because you say this as fact does not make it so |
Anonymous
Most of the elite universities do not have room for expansion. Putting them on satellite campuses devalues the education. |
Anonymous
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They can barely fit the freshmen in dorms as it is.
Why should the goal be to emulate others? Those places in the US seem to be doing fine using their current model. It is the striving to be "elite" which is the problem. The goal of college should be to obtain an education, not status. |