Dropping out of engineering

[Anonymous]

DS is a sophomore at an elite Ivy, and he is majoring in engineering field.

We live far from DC in a small town in VA, having moved here so I could SAH, the high school seemed well enough, but didn’t have any AP courses or such, and only about a 1/3 of kids go to college (most go to Old Dominion, JMU, etc).

I was talking to DS about declaring his major, and he got a B- in chem, C+ in calc, and C- in physics first semester, and then B+ in chem, A- multivar calc, and C+ in physics second semester. His best grade was an A- in a civil liberties course.

He claims he doesn’t care about grades, he is committed to engineering and even wants to go grad school!

I know the Ivy name might help, and maybe they have some grade deflation, but I think most people would take these kind of grades as a sign to switch to a humanities major, esp with the grade in Civil Liberties. This semester he seems on track for Bs and Cs still.

Will he be employable with these kind of grades? I assume grad school won’t accept him, so just care if he can lead to work. Did anyone stick it out in a hard major even with bad grades?

[Anonymous]

Don’t be an idiot. Don’t discourage him from pursuing engineering

[Anonymous]

It might be a more realistic question to ask whether transferring to another school might be the best response to those grade trends.

I don't envy that decision. The Ivy League pedigree continues to maintain value.

But I'm not sure that graduating with a 2.7 GPA is what employers or grad. school admissions officers have in mind when they interview Ivy League graduates.

There's an insidious theory that has colleges and universities spellbound: anyone can thrive with enough resources around them. The valedictorian with a 4.00 UWGPA / 4.00 WGPA from the high school with no AP course offerings? The only thing standing between them and a robust WGPA of 4.60 or 4.70 is mere access to those AP classes. Same with standardized testing. In both cases, bullshit.

It sounds like your DS is living the reality right now. I'm sorry for that. Good luck with his next step(s).

[Anonymous]

Leave him be. The coursework is hard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don’t be an idiot. Don’t discourage him from pursuing engineering

He wants to build airplanes — this isn’t Big Tech money, and will they let C students work on planes??

[Anonymous]

Chemistry and Multivariable Calculus tend to be weed out classes. They are purposely designed to break engineering and pre-med students. He survived. Physics is also known to be difficult.

That's a pretty heavy course load for a freshman who's never taken any AP courses. He will have been way underprepared compared to his fellow students, who presumably had taken the usual 8-14 AP classes that most Ivy League students will have taken in high school, including Calculus BC, Multivariable, and Chemistry. And since these classes are graded on a curve, he did ok all things considered. In fact, I'd say if this is his first introduction to calculus, chemistry, and physics, he did outstanding.

If he's passionate about engineering, I would never in a million years tell him he needs to drop it and move on. The weakness is the rural high school. Not his intelligence or drive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It might be a more realistic question to ask whether transferring to another school might be the best response to those grade trends.

I don't envy that decision. The Ivy League pedigree continues to maintain value.

But I'm not sure that graduating with a 2.7 GPA is what employers or grad. school admissions officers have in mind when they interview Ivy League graduates.

There's an insidious theory that has colleges and universities spellbound: anyone can thrive with enough resources around them. The valedictorian with a 4.00 UWGPA / 4.00 WGPA from the high school with no AP course offerings? The only thing standing between them and a robust WGPA of 4.60 or 4.70 is mere access to those AP classes. Same with standardized testing. In both cases, bullshit.

It sounds like your DS is living the reality right now. I'm sorry for that. Good luck with his next step(s).

NP here. I think he would have fared better coming from a better high school; it’s not like Ivy League schools teach study habits or academic strategies — that’s all done in high school, like st local privates and magnets. They expect you to arrive with those skills already.

[Anonymous]

He’s doing ok and he’s on an upward trend.

[Anonymous]

Employers didn't ask about my grades in engineering.

If he wants to go to grad school, grades will matter. But there are a lot of companies that hire without a gpa floor.

[Anonymous]

My DS is a sophomore in a non Ivy and in engineering at a top public. He is not getting As and Bs. It’s just really hard. I wouldn’t encourage him to drop out. If he’s enjoying the challenge and sees himself in that field, don’t give up! Have him or her go to office hours. It’s very common that engineers don’t graduate early or on time because the course work is incredibly challenging.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t be an idiot. Don’t discourage him from pursuing engineering

He wants to build airplanes — this isn’t Big Tech money, and will they let C students work on planes??

The answer is: not really, but kind of.

I went to grad school with an undergrad 2.7 from an Ivy because I was in a science (not engineering) major that I sucked at. A curve is a curve and you can’t fight it- my gpa in my non-major classes was a 3.8 but I was stubborn and had crazy parental pressure.

I do not recommend this path! It took several years of entry-level work and some major hustle and post-bac courses that I couldn’t afford to prove myself worthy of grad school.

But: I worked in literal airplane factories after grad school and was in charge of engineers, which is all the fun with none of the engineering angst.

Go for a liberal arts degree and pick up a project management certificate after graduation. Or consider a few accounting or economics or pre-law classes and he can work his way into procurement or HR. Post-bac business classes are a good way to round out an Ivy degree if you plan to compete against people with BBAs.

Check the Boeing job listings and see what degrees they require for post-undergrad opportunities, and also consider a long-term plan of law school or an MBA. I worked with a lot of lawyers in the airline industry and there are some great opportunities in MBA rotational programs at airlines, too. Airline people love to talk to fellow plane nerds. I’ve left the industry or else I’d be offering a burner email. Reach out to early career people on LinkedIn and ask to chat- 90% will say yes!

[Anonymous]

B/C for STEM is not uncommon the first two years. Classes and grades will be better for Junior and Senior year. They weed out students for a reason. Hang in there.

[Anonymous]

My son graduated with a 2.7 from a little known college and is happily employedad a mechanical engineer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Chemistry and Multivariable Calculus tend to be weed out classes. They are purposely designed to break engineering and pre-med students. He survived. Physics is also known to be difficult.

That's a pretty heavy course load for a freshman who's never taken any AP courses. He will have been way underprepared compared to his fellow students, who presumably had taken the usual 8-14 AP classes that most Ivy League students will have taken in high school, including Calculus BC, Multivariable, and Chemistry. And since these classes are graded on a curve, he did ok all things considered. In fact, I'd say if this is his first introduction to calculus, chemistry, and physics, he did outstanding.

If he's passionate about engineering, I would never in a million years tell him he needs to drop it and move on. The weakness is the rural high school. Not his intelligence or drive.

+1. He’s doing great. Also, there are more options than engineering vs humanities. Especially at a school with so many opportunities.

[Anonymous]

There’s an old joke from my undergrad days: In the limit as GPA -> 0 (Engineering) = Business.