Structured/traditional vs Progressive school for adhd/anxiety

[Anonymous]

I am deciding between two school options for my 1st grader and wanted to see how other DCUM families have made these decisions. We are trying to decide between structured, academically focused parochial school and progressive, very neurodiverse inclusive school that doesn’t profess to be super academic.

My kid: bright, creative, empathetic, over thinker. Loves music and storytelling and theater. She’s wildly creative and has the best stories. Mature at times and then frustrated she is 6. She is “behind” in reading (just finished K), and we are working with a tutor. Maybe dyslexic (testing in December). What we’ve noticed is that one on one her adhd is super visible - hard time focusing etc. our hypothesis is that this is because she is 1:1 and can’t escape the hard work. She is really coming along and benefits from repeat practice at home. This doesn’t square with what we see in the classroom which is she looks like she’s paying attention, but it seems obvious she is just pretending/masking because we see in throwing that she doesn’t actually know what is going on.

Given she is behind in reading, I can see the benefit of a structured classroom focused on academics. I can also see her liking the structure, expectations, and sense of home that this school is known for. On the other hand, I like the idea of school focusing on curiosity, SEL, whole person etc. she might really like being with other people who are different and having that celebrated. It’s also nice to have creativity and room to explore in the classroom. Big theater focus which she would love. Parents rave about their kid leaving with confidence and being excited to learn. Both can handle dyslexia and both have SEL.

My question: obviously we are letting her visit and also are talking to so many parents, but I was curious: if you have a kid with a similar profile, what type of schooling is working best? Is traditional desks facing a white board teaching hard for your ND kid and did they miss the creativity, or do they like the routine? Or did you prioritize whole person/love of learning that some independents are known for, knowing your kid might be behind in some areas absent tutoring?

Thanks - and please note I am not saying you can’t learn in both environments or that only one environment will produce a well rounded kid… but the styles are just way different

[Anonymous]

When my child was that age, she did best in a classroom that was structured enough that the expectations were made explicit (rather than implied) but that the teacher was flexible enough to overlook the small things (not sitting on her bottom during circle time, etc). I don't know which of your possible schools offers both.

[Anonymous]

If your kid is actually disabled she needs a public with an IEP. If not just pick the school you have a better gut feeling about but be flexible if it doesn’t work.

[Anonymous]

Progressive has been a great fit for my middle schooler who has adhd and anxiety. Parochial and the intense structure destroyed my child’s confidence in early elementary and it’s taken years to get it back.

[Anonymous]

I would be wary of the "progressive" school. Sometimes kids with ADHD and/or anxiety really do prefer a lot of structure and the behavior expectations being made explicit. For a kid who doesn't self-regulate, pick up on social cues or understand body language as well (which is common for kids with ADHD), having to decide the implicit expectations at a supposedly more flexible school can be an added burden and source of struggle. And if there are lots of other kids whose behavior isn't well-regulated, the classroom may be more chaotic and noisy and that can be difficult for ADHD too-- it's really distracting. The explicit structure, atmosphere, and routine of traditional schooling can be a big help for certain types of special needs.

I would also suggest you set the bar for dyslexia support a little higher than "can handle dyslexia". Which school has the better support? Does either school have an Orton-Gillingham trained faculty member to work with her? At her young age, you're already having issues significant enough to notice. You don't really know whether you're dealing with just ADHD and dyslexia, or maybe something more. Which school is best position to help her in that scenario?

I'm curious why you don't have a middle ground between traditional parochial vs "progressive". I think if you look around a little harder, you'll find something in between-- maybe a public-- that isn't as squishy as a progressive private but also isn't as traditional as the parochial. And then you'd have IEP rights as well. If you're someone who doesn't give public school much thought, take a look, you might like what you see.

I don't put much stock in the "love of learning" yada yada that you get from progressive type schools. It's too squish to really mean that much. In my experience most kids love to learn and have curiousity at most types of schools. It's something parents say when their kid is happy and they don't want to say anything very specific.

[Anonymous]

Honestly "love of learning" wouldn't be enough for me if I were paying tuition and also paying for and implementing tutoring. When your kid is little you have time for tutoring, but when they get older, tutoring means you're giving up something else (or precious down time), and your kid knows they are behind and feels stigmatized. To pay private school tuition and have them not effectively educating the child during the school day? No thank you.

[Anonymous]

So you're asking should you send your child to a school that can't actually meet her academic needs, and then when she's tired from masking and struggling all day, make her have tutoring? I really don't think that makes sense. How does "love of learning" happen when she's not able to keep up without the tutor?

Why not look beyond these two schools for the actual right fit?

[Anonymous]

Hi op, though I don’t have a ton of experience yet I will share my recent experience in case it is helpful. My daughter attended a very progressive preschool, mostly outdoors, the most wonderful, inclusive place, super wonderful place to be for a neurodivergent kid in many ways. I so believe in their philosophy in theory and was so grateful for the opportunity to go there. But she really struggled there. Their approach had structure, of course, it was a well run program not a free for all but it was incredibly child led. Which I loved! But again, lots of struggles with emotion regulation and peers. We were often hearing about the difficulty.

But she has started kindergarten at a public school, classroom is super structured and teacher led and is thriving. First IEP meeting they said basically all great things. We were kind of astounded.

My current theory is that while I want that free flowing child led environment for her, the super structured environment is actually easier and less stressful for her. Preschool teacher had actually commented on how things are better for teacher led things. Having the routine be so certain and the tasks so clear seems to be really doing wonders.

This all being said I have to admit if paying for private I would have trouble not choosing the more progressive school and I think a lot was gained from that experience, but I just wanted to share because it’s been pretty eye opening for me. But my kid’s ADHD symptoms show themselves in emotional regulation issues pretty prominently which doesn’t sound like your issue so they may have very different symptom presentation so please take with a grain of salt!

[Anonymous]

All super helpful, thank you everyone! Appreciate the push back on “love of learning.” It is so dang appealing but also, what does that even mean?

To answer questions - We don’t live in DC so have fewer options, but also are looking at who has space now vs waiting a year due to some issues at her current school. We are also looking at schools for next year, but I think the question still stands. in our area, private schools tend to be either progressive (activity led, focused on experience) or traditional (teacher led, focused on knowledge) Our public schools are a disaster. We have an OG tutor already, and both schools use OG or Wilson as a supplement.

[Anonymous]

OP, have you had her formally evaluated in any way? I ask because you need to fully understand the potential scope of her needs in order to make a good decision about placement. Sometimes ADHD is the tip of the iceberg. Consider which school can serve her long-term vs which school is likely to counsel her out if her needs are more than they want to meet. That may point to the progressive school which you say is neurodiverse. If you do go progressive, confirm that they are willing to provide her OG tutoring right now-- some "progressive" schools don't intervene until later and they say it's healthy child development philosophy yada yada Scandinavia reads later but it also lets them avoid providing services and keeps the cost down.

On the other hand, since your daughter is bright and may do well with dyslexia support, consider which school is going to meet her academic needs. "Child-led" sounds good to parents of little kids, but in the long run that can lead to the kid avoiding things that are difficult and focusing on their preferred topics, leaving big holes in their education. Especially for kids with ADHD who sometimes have a hard time focusing on things that interest them less. "Child-led" shouldn't be an excuse for failing to awaken the child's interest in the full range of topics while still making it feel child-led. That requires a very skilled teacher and not all schools have them. "Love of learning", to parents, sometimes just means their child enjoys going to school. And sometimes children enjoy school more if they get to focus only on their favorite topics, but that doesn't make it a good thing for them in the long run.

Also, real talk. Neurodiverse sounds great to parents of little kids. Yay, diversity! Who could be against that. But your kid might have a much harder time with it due to her ADHD. If other kids in the room are stimming, dysregulating, or just generally being noisy-- and that's the model of the school so it's not gonna change-- that might be pretty hard for your daughter when she's trying to maintain focus. And at schools like this, the kids who are more academically capable sometimes peel off in upper grades because the parents want a stronger academic peer group. So the class has a higher and higher ratio of neurodiversity as time passes. What you get as a peer group in K and 1st at this type of school just isn't the same as what it may be in 4th and 5th when you're left with true believers in "progressive education" plus kids whose parents think they wouldn't do well elsewhere. I'll probably get flamed for saying this out loud, but that was our experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Progressive has been a great fit for my middle schooler who has adhd and anxiety. Parochial and the intense structure destroyed my child’s confidence in early elementary and it’s taken years to get it back.

Same, although my kid does best in an environment that is structured, but not rigid or strict. He needs small classes, routine and consistency, but also needs praise and encouragement vs. discipline, creativity and fun.

[Anonymous]

I have 2 children with ADHD / Dyslexia.
One was in a progressive public school and was let to slide so bad that as a middle-schooler, he spells on an ES level even though we put him in a traditional, structured, place with strong supports on both issues with medications.

Our younger started in that traditional approach school. She was reading and doing math before she entered K so thought she'd do well anywhere. By first, her ADHD manifested and now, in 4th, it's clear that without this structured, supportive environment, she wouldn't do well. We are also fortunate that this is a public school. They identified her, not me. They did the testing, not us. So lucky.

For you, OP, these decisions are very hard and the decision might change year over year.

[Anonymous]

Do not let your child step into a school that won’t do IEPs until you have a clearer understanding of her needs. The privates will say “we are all learning abd can work with you”. But they aren’t sufficiently resourced—and will blame your kid

[Anonymous]

I think with private school you get what you pay for. If you're wanting a small class size and a lot of individualized teacher and aide support, those things cost a lot. So either your school has high tuition or a huge endowment, or is subsidized by a parish or something. If you can't grasp how it's going to be paid for, you should question whether it's going to actually happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, have you had her formally evaluated in any way? I ask because you need to fully understand the potential scope of her needs in order to make a good decision about placement. Sometimes ADHD is the tip of the iceberg. Consider which school can serve her long-term vs which school is likely to counsel her out if her needs are more than they want to meet. That may point to the progressive school which you say is neurodiverse. If you do go progressive, confirm that they are willing to provide her OG tutoring right now-- some "progressive" schools don't intervene until later and they say it's healthy child development philosophy yada yada Scandinavia reads later but it also lets them avoid providing services and keeps the cost down.

On the other hand, since your daughter is bright and may do well with dyslexia support, consider which school is going to meet her academic needs. "Child-led" sounds good to parents of little kids, but in the long run that can lead to the kid avoiding things that are difficult and focusing on their preferred topics, leaving big holes in their education. Especially for kids with ADHD who sometimes have a hard time focusing on things that interest them less. "Child-led" shouldn't be an excuse for failing to awaken the child's interest in the full range of topics while still making it feel child-led. That requires a very skilled teacher and not all schools have them. "Love of learning", to parents, sometimes just means their child enjoys going to school. And sometimes children enjoy school more if they get to focus only on their favorite topics, but that doesn't make it a good thing for them in the long run.

Also, real talk. Neurodiverse sounds great to parents of little kids. Yay, diversity! Who could be against that. But your kid might have a much harder time with it due to her ADHD. If other kids in the room are stimming, dysregulating, or just generally being noisy-- and that's the model of the school so it's not gonna change-- that might be pretty hard for your daughter when she's trying to maintain focus. And at schools like this, the kids who are more academically capable sometimes peel off in upper grades because the parents want a stronger academic peer group. So the class has a higher and higher ratio of neurodiversity as time passes. What you get as a peer group in K and 1st at this type of school just isn't the same as what it may be in 4th and 5th when you're left with true believers in "progressive education" plus kids whose parents think they wouldn't do well elsewhere. I'll probably get flamed for saying this out loud, but that was our experience.

Op here. What you describe about some progressive schools (reading is developmental, give her time) is the nonsense we are experiencing at her current school. Your last point about the class environment is huge, I can see that’s being hard for her. Thanks for calling that out. She is very much mainstream presenting (well, for now), except in how she learns. We have done a full neuropsych at 4.5 and are doing again at 7 (this year) to update but also determine if she has dyslexia.