S/O: what to do, given that so many schools use Lucy Calkins?

[Anonymous]

I’m the poster from the Lucy Calkins thread with the 1st grader who is very smart but is struggling with reading and writing.

She is not behind in reading, per se, but given that she tested at 135 FSIQ on the WPPSI with no dips in abilities, I’m not thrilled that she’s currently only able to read level D/E books with some assistance from me.

Her writing is more concerning, though. Her school uses the Handwriting without Tears program, but she still forms letters in very non-conventional ways and often reverses them. I know that’s not out of the range of normal, but she’ll turn 7 in October. My understanding is it’s only normal through 7.

She is in speech therapy and receives Orton-Gillingham tutoring. We also have a neuropsych eval scheduled for October.

I know we will end up learning a lot from that eval, but if there aren’t underlying issues like dyslexia or dysgraphia, how do we make sure she reaches her potential for reading and writing? We can keep up with tutoring, but how effective will that be, if it’s being undermined by ineffective classroom instruction?

Her school seems to use a combination of LC and more phonics-based approaches. Moreover, it seems like switching schools might not help, since so many of them use LC to some extent.

[Anonymous]

Maybe consider switching to a Montessori elementary program, something which puts Phonics front and center AND does not teach 3-cueing and other flawed methods ?

[Anonymous]

Teach phonics. Run through the book yourself. That's what we did. I really think the phonics helped.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m the poster from the Lucy Calkins thread with the 1st grader who is very smart but is struggling with reading and writing.

She is not behind in reading, per se, but given that she tested at 135 FSIQ on the WPPSI with no dips in abilities, I’m not thrilled that she’s currently only able to read level D/E books with some assistance from me.

Her writing is more concerning, though. Her school uses the Handwriting without Tears program, but she still forms letters in very non-conventional ways and often reverses them. I know that’s not out of the range of normal, but she’ll turn 7 in October. My understanding is it’s only normal through 7.

She is in speech therapy and receives Orton-Gillingham tutoring. We also have a neuropsych eval scheduled for October.

I know we will end up learning a lot from that eval, but if there aren’t underlying issues like dyslexia or dysgraphia, how do we make sure she reaches her potential for reading and writing? We can keep up with tutoring, but how effective will that be, if it’s being undermined by ineffective classroom instruction?

Her school seems to use a combination of LC and more phonics-based approaches. Moreover, it seems like switching schools might not help, since so many of them use LC to some extent.

You’re right that switching schools is likely pointless. If you do switch, I would seriously consider Montessori where they don’t do any of this. I don’t at all understand education these days. What was wrong with tried and true Phonics?! Why fix something that is not broken?!

[Anonymous]

Band together and make them get rid of it! Isn’t that our right? With all the tuition money we pay?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m the poster from the Lucy Calkins thread with the 1st grader who is very smart but is struggling with reading and writing.

She is not behind in reading, per se, but given that she tested at 135 FSIQ on the WPPSI with no dips in abilities, I’m not thrilled that she’s currently only able to read level D/E books with some assistance from me.

Her writing is more concerning, though. Her school uses the Handwriting without Tears program, but she still forms letters in very non-conventional ways and often reverses them. I know that’s not out of the range of normal, but she’ll turn 7 in October. My understanding is it’s only normal through 7.

She is in speech therapy and receives Orton-Gillingham tutoring. We also have a neuropsych eval scheduled for October.

I know we will end up learning a lot from that eval, but if there aren’t underlying issues like dyslexia or dysgraphia, how do we make sure she reaches her potential for reading and writing? We can keep up with tutoring, but how effective will that be, if it’s being undermined by ineffective classroom instruction?

Her school seems to use a combination of LC and more phonics-based approaches. Moreover, it seems like switching schools might not help, since so many of them use LC to some extent.

You want a strict traditional Catholic school. Or Vallium (or you).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m the poster from the Lucy Calkins thread with the 1st grader who is very smart but is struggling with reading and writing.

She is not behind in reading, per se, but given that she tested at 135 FSIQ on the WPPSI with no dips in abilities, I’m not thrilled that she’s currently only able to read level D/E books with some assistance from me.

Her writing is more concerning, though. Her school uses the Handwriting without Tears program, but she still forms letters in very non-conventional ways and often reverses them. I know that’s not out of the range of normal, but she’ll turn 7 in October. My understanding is it’s only normal through 7.

She is in speech therapy and receives Orton-Gillingham tutoring. We also have a neuropsych eval scheduled for October.

I know we will end up learning a lot from that eval, but if there aren’t underlying issues like dyslexia or dysgraphia, how do we make sure she reaches her potential for reading and writing? We can keep up with tutoring, but how effective will that be, if it’s being undermined by ineffective classroom instruction?

Her school seems to use a combination of LC and more phonics-based approaches. Moreover, it seems like switching schools might not help, since so many of them use LC to some extent.

You want a strict traditional Catholic school. Or Vallium (or you).

We’re Jewish, so a strict traditional Catholic school isn’t going to be at all right for us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m the poster from the Lucy Calkins thread with the 1st grader who is very smart but is struggling with reading and writing.

She is not behind in reading, per se, but given that she tested at 135 FSIQ on the WPPSI with no dips in abilities, I’m not thrilled that she’s currently only able to read level D/E books with some assistance from me.

Her writing is more concerning, though. Her school uses the Handwriting without Tears program, but she still forms letters in very non-conventional ways and often reverses them. I know that’s not out of the range of normal, but she’ll turn 7 in October. My understanding is it’s only normal through 7.

She is in speech therapy and receives Orton-Gillingham tutoring. We also have a neuropsych eval scheduled for October.

I know we will end up learning a lot from that eval, but if there aren’t underlying issues like dyslexia or dysgraphia, how do we make sure she reaches her potential for reading and writing? We can keep up with tutoring, but how effective will that be, if it’s being undermined by ineffective classroom instruction?

Her school seems to use a combination of LC and more phonics-based approaches. Moreover, it seems like switching schools might not help, since so many of them use LC to some extent.

You want a strict traditional Catholic school. Or Vallium (or you).

We’re Jewish, so a strict traditional Catholic school isn’t going to be at all right for us.

Is this at JDS/Milton or a secular school? JDS and Milton were both talking about Orton-Gillingham this year. I think this may be a change for JDS this year.

[Anonymous]

Buy the All about Reading curriculum and work through it at home. The website has free assessments so you can determine the level. My DD had Lucy Calkins informed teaching in kinder and first. We did all about reading from 2nd-4th along with switching to a school day that was all phonics and grammar. There was also a speech issue going on for which she received therapy. All has pretty much been corrected now in 5th grade. It was a LOT of work on my part but totally worth it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m the poster from the Lucy Calkins thread with the 1st grader who is very smart but is struggling with reading and writing.

She is not behind in reading, per se, but given that she tested at 135 FSIQ on the WPPSI with no dips in abilities, I’m not thrilled that she’s currently only able to read level D/E books with some assistance from me.

Her writing is more concerning, though. Her school uses the Handwriting without Tears program, but she still forms letters in very non-conventional ways and often reverses them. I know that’s not out of the range of normal, but she’ll turn 7 in October. My understanding is it’s only normal through 7.

She is in speech therapy and receives Orton-Gillingham tutoring. We also have a neuropsych eval scheduled for October.

I know we will end up learning a lot from that eval, but if there aren’t underlying issues like dyslexia or dysgraphia, how do we make sure she reaches her potential for reading and writing? We can keep up with tutoring, but how effective will that be, if it’s being undermined by ineffective classroom instruction?

Her school seems to use a combination of LC and more phonics-based approaches. Moreover, it seems like switching schools might not help, since so many of them use LC to some extent.

You want a strict traditional Catholic school. Or Vallium (or you).

We’re Jewish, so a strict traditional Catholic school isn’t going to be at all right for us.

Is this at JDS/Milton or a secular school? JDS and Milton were both talking about Orton-Gillingham this year. I think this may be a change for JDS this year.

It’s a secular school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m the poster from the Lucy Calkins thread with the 1st grader who is very smart but is struggling with reading and writing.

She is not behind in reading, per se, but given that she tested at 135 FSIQ on the WPPSI with no dips in abilities, I’m not thrilled that she’s currently only able to read level D/E books with some assistance from me.

Her writing is more concerning, though. Her school uses the Handwriting without Tears program, but she still forms letters in very non-conventional ways and often reverses them. I know that’s not out of the range of normal, but she’ll turn 7 in October. My understanding is it’s only normal through 7.

She is in speech therapy and receives Orton-Gillingham tutoring. We also have a neuropsych eval scheduled for October.

I know we will end up learning a lot from that eval, but if there aren’t underlying issues like dyslexia or dysgraphia, how do we make sure she reaches her potential for reading and writing? We can keep up with tutoring, but how effective will that be, if it’s being undermined by ineffective classroom instruction?

Her school seems to use a combination of LC and more phonics-based approaches. Moreover, it seems like switching schools might not help, since so many of them use LC to some extent.

I'm not sure if you will like this suggestion, but our DCPS school uses a phonics-based "science of reading" curriculum, and strict "fundations" for letter learning, and its extremeley effective. It's a Title 1 school, and they had 90% of the Kindergarteners reading at or above grade level last year. I'm very very pleased. Public school has it's pros and cons and i'm sure is a bit more chaotic than the private world, but in this situation they are excellent.

[Anonymous]

Honestly this sounds so much like my gifted but dyslexic and dysgraphic kid. I’m glad you are already doing O-G interventions, that’s key, and that you have a full eval scheduled. I second the suggestion for a switch to Montessori if you can, it was a great fit (along with an O-G specialist 3x/wk) for my child from pre-k through 4th. Even if you don’t end up with a dyslexia and/or dysgraphia diagnosis, the O-G interventions are still great for the issues you describe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honestly this sounds so much like my gifted but dyslexic and dysgraphic kid. I’m glad you are already doing O-G interventions, that’s key, and that you have a full eval scheduled. I second the suggestion for a switch to Montessori if you can, it was a great fit (along with an O-G specialist 3x/wk) for my child from pre-k through 4th. Even if you don’t end up with a dyslexia and/or dysgraphia diagnosis, the O-G interventions are still great for the issues you describe.

OP here. I’ll be honest, that’s our concern.

I went into her classroom after school about a week ago and asked her to show me some of her work. She showed me some very basic writing she did. I kid you not — there were 5-6 letter/number reversals in the 8-10 words she had written.

She forms letters in ways I’ve never seen before. She’ll tell us 63 is 36.

And yet, she can do puzzles that are well above her age range. She’s terrific at mental math. Her vocabulary is wonderful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m the poster from the Lucy Calkins thread with the 1st grader who is very smart but is struggling with reading and writing.

She is not behind in reading, per se, but given that she tested at 135 FSIQ on the WPPSI with no dips in abilities, I’m not thrilled that she’s currently only able to read level D/E books with some assistance from me.

Her writing is more concerning, though. Her school uses the Handwriting without Tears program, but she still forms letters in very non-conventional ways and often reverses them. I know that’s not out of the range of normal, but she’ll turn 7 in October. My understanding is it’s only normal through 7.

She is in speech therapy and receives Orton-Gillingham tutoring. We also have a neuropsych eval scheduled for October.

I know we will end up learning a lot from that eval, but if there aren’t underlying issues like dyslexia or dysgraphia, how do we make sure she reaches her potential for reading and writing? We can keep up with tutoring, but how effective will that be, if it’s being undermined by ineffective classroom instruction?

Her school seems to use a combination of LC and more phonics-based approaches. Moreover, it seems like switching schools might not help, since so many of them use LC to some extent.

OMG you seriously need to chill. It’s not a switch on and off at 7. There’s a lot of brain wiring that need to happen for reading to click, and some education experts think we push it too soon here in the US, traumatizing all the kids whose brains aren’t quite ready at 5 or 6, and turning them off reading. In Finland, they don’t START teaching reading until 7 and Finnish kids score among the highest in tests of reading proficiency.

Even children who start reading young may not master other important elements u til much later. My eldest started reading at 2. Taught himself after he figured out letter,phonics. But his ability to create pictures in his mind while he read didn’t totally click until late second grade. He has an IQ of 157.

You sound conscientious but also highly anxious. Level D/E at her age is fine. High IQ is not essentially correlated with precocious reading ability. All kids converge around age 8/9 and that’s when you can start seeing the giftedness emerge. My eldest now reads super fast and with unusual comprehension and understanding of emotional nuances.

Please get help for your anxiety now before you damage your child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly this sounds so much like my gifted but dyslexic and dysgraphic kid. I’m glad you are already doing O-G interventions, that’s key, and that you have a full eval scheduled. I second the suggestion for a switch to Montessori if you can, it was a great fit (along with an O-G specialist 3x/wk) for my child from pre-k through 4th. Even if you don’t end up with a dyslexia and/or dysgraphia diagnosis, the O-G interventions are still great for the issues you describe.

OP here. I’ll be honest, that’s our concern.

I went into her classroom after school about a week ago and asked her to show me some of her work. She showed me some very basic writing she did. I kid you not — there were 5-6 letter/number reversals in the 8-10 words she had written.

She forms letters in ways I’ve never seen before. She’ll tell us 63 is 36.

And yet, she can do puzzles that are well above her age range. She’s terrific at mental math. Her vocabulary is wonderful.

You are seriously describing my kid. DC’s verbal skills have always been off the charts. DC excels in math and spacial reasoning, and solved mental manipulation problems (visualizing complex shapes that requires flipping/reflecting the object mentally and choosing the correct option on paper) that the doc doing her eval had only had one other child successfully complete. That child was 16, my kid was 9.

Giftedness and learning differences can mask each other—the LD holding the child back from their full potential but their intelligence allowing them to figure out work-arounds for quite a while. With dyslexia, that tipping point is often around grade 3, where a switch starts happening from “learning to read” to “reading to learn”, and they can’t keep up anymore. It’s great that you’re getting an eval now.

Obviously I have no idea if your child is gifted or dyslexic or anything else, but any or all of that is a possibility. If your child is 2e (gifted plus LD), public schools can be a struggle—they have systems in place for kids who are gifted or kids who have a learning difference and need supports, but handling both together is a challenge. That’s exactly why we’re in private instead of public.

You’re already doing the right things. It takes a while, and a supportive school helps a ton. My kid is in HS now, though, and doing great with fairly standard accommodations. After Montessori, DC went on to a k-8 (a regular private with a good learning center, not a dyslexia-focused school) and now is in a strong private HS. It will get better.