Kitchen design for homeowners who actually cook

[Anonymous]

Do you have any small kitchen design tips for homeowners who actually cook? Regrets? Or sources that you found useful? The Mainline Kitchen Design blog had a post about how the most expensive kitchens they design are typically never used, so it seems like I generally can't rely on the design sites for this. And I should avoid some items that are often featured (white fireclay sinks, SubZero appliances, pot fillers, etc).

Here's our list so far:
* Kitchen sink: Wide and deep stainless steel, perhaps this Rohl, or a 32inch ish one. https://www.ferguson.com/product/rohl-culinario-37-78-x-18-in-no-hole-stainless-steel-single-bowl-undermount-kitchen-sink-rruw3616sb/_/R-7525739?fromplp=true&trackSignal=true. This size and material will help with washing lots of big pots, etc. According to Mainline and some other sources, those fireclay ones aren't practical. Don't have windows by sink go all the way down to the sill as those are difficult to clean.
* Cooktop: Induction. Don't bother with Wolf.  Kenji seems to think induction is fine for the vast majority of dishes. Also much easier to clean.* NO pot filler, try to find spot for wet bar/ second sink instead. Mainline said they can cause damage. I also put water in hot water boiler first anyway.
* Wet bar/ coffee station: Try to find spot for extra sink (if possible), coffee station, and small drink fridge. Helps with foot traffic and incorporating kitchen into open dining space.
* Hood: Worth getting one according to another thread. Not sure which kind...seems like some are more about show.
* Oven: Wall oven. Easier to use for heavy items, helps avoid arm burns (I have many). Don't necessarily need to use up space for a double.
* Fridge: 36 inch, counterdepth is big enough. French door. Don't bother with Subzero, probably do Bosch. Our appliance repairperson said to avoid LG and Samsung, and that Subzero compressor is same as cheaper fridges. Think about fridge placement, as we should avoid foot traffic coming through the cooking area; wet bar/ small drink fridge would also help. Wonder whether we should not both with panels as that would limit options.
* Countertops: Have at least one area of continuous/ longer counter space. Not sure about material. Seems like granite is the most practical, but are there better materials now? Is butcher block ok for the island?  I don't mind if it looks used, but wasn't sure if there are other downsides.
* Storage: Drawers are better than cabinets. Can place pull out drawers for pans under the cooktop, like here https://www.thekitchn.com/cooks-country-editor-eva-katzs-homey-hardworking-kitchen-kitchen-tour-215478?. Ask for toe kick drawers https://www.kraftmaid.com/toe-kick-drawer/. Try to find spot for full length pantry, even if it's in the (casual/ open concept) dining area.
*Small appliances: Have spot for toaster oven, which we use more than microwave.

[Anonymous]

Does your 36” counter depth fridge include a freezer? If so, that will be quite small because you lose a lot of space moving to counter depth. Our counter depth 30” fridge / 18” freezer is smaller overall than our previous 36” regular size fridge freezer (French doors). If I had a small kitchen, I would not do counter depth.

[Anonymous]

I've gut renovated three kitchens now, so my FWIW:

Agree:
- Stainless sink. I bought an inexpensive one from build.com for two houses in a row now and love it
- Drawers > cabinets -- look sleeker and hold more. We paid for the rev a shelf peg inserts but TBH we didn't really need them. Things don't seem to slide around in the drawers without. That said, we do have some glass ones for display, and I like those.
- Coffee station - we put in a big walk in pantry and have a second fridge and small cabinetry run for prep space and the coffee station. The rest is just shelving. Kinda regret not doing a second sink but I do love all the storage.

Other things to think about
- If you can afford it/have the space: DOUBLE DISHWASHERS. DH shot me down on this one and it is probably my single biggest regret after living here 6 months. We're always behind on the flipping dishes.
- We opted not to do an island sink, just the main sink by the window, and I'm happy with that call because the visual impact and the actual space is fantastic. I was torn on wanting one for the practicality but I love the way the big surface works and looks.
- We have a small appliance garage for our toaster oven and air fryer, our two most-used appliances. We have plugs in the pantry shelving and keep the slow cooker, rice cooker, stand mixer, etc in there.
- Hate the built in spice rack that pulls out next to the stove! I had to buy stickers for the top of all our spices. Much prefer a lazy susan in an upper cabinet.
- But love the built in knife block and spatula holder on the other side. I'm big on keeping things off the counter if possible and this works perfectly.
- If you're doing any glass display cabinets, make sure you light them.

Disagree:
- Wall ovens. I had double walls in a previous house and hated them. I don't find it difficult to get dishes out for the bottom.
- We went with the Wolf range because I couldn't get the size and configuration I wanted for my budget in induction. I like it - it's more power than we need most of the time but it's big (we're often both cooking at once) and damn does it sear tuna beautifully!
- We like the SZ so far. The appliance guy sold us on it because (1) we wanted panel ready and that limits options and (2) supposedly it keeps food fresh for much longer than other brands, which I would agree with so far.

[Anonymous]

I think it's much more dependent on the shape of your kitchen. Mine is an elongated L with a 9ft island in the middle. We call it a "3 butt kitchen" because you can have 3 people working extremely hard (like prepping a holiday meal) and none of us bump into each other.

My favorite thing is a prep sink in the island that's right next to the breakfast table. Everyone easily washes hands there and also scrapes their plates (it has a disposal). No one is over at the main sink making a mess while someone is trying to wash dishes.

And yeah ALL DRAWERS is the best. Pot drawers are amazing, so are dishes drawers. The deeper and wider the drawer the better. No chintzy little 12" drawers. 24" are much more useful.

[Anonymous]

Disagree on the refrigerator- go for the big one. No one has EVER complained about having too much refrigerator space

Hard wood floors throughout. There are people who will say they get ruined by water, but I'm going to disagree. Our current hard wood floors are 17 years old and looking great. Tile will ruin your back (if you actually use your kitchen)

If you have recessed lights, make sure they are lined up properly woth your cabinets and not haphazard

Agree re: single sink

[Anonymous]

+ Cabinets to the ceiling

[Anonymous]

Building on other posts:

Wolf is just a waste of money – you’re paying for the red knobs. We considered induction, but opted for the BlueStar instead, because the open burner is perfect for wok cooking and it’s incredibly powerful. It also has an oversize oven. But it’s a real pain to clean, even more so than a closed burner like the Wolf, so may nor be worth it. We may do induction if we had to do it over.

Agree with all drawers. We have about 50/50, and I wish there were more drawers.

We have a prep sink on the edge of the island, and it’s great – doesn’t break up the flow at all. Remember to put a sprayer in it – it’s a pain to clean otherwise.

If you really cook, you definitely need a range good for searing, etc.

Agree about stainless sink. If you really have limited space, consider one of the stainless workstations by Kraus and others.

Agree on the fridge/freezer, but only if you have a separate freezer/fridge in the basement or garage.

We put an appliance garage in the corner, to make use of the wasted space. It’s great, but makes the room feel a little smaller. It houses the vitamix, food processor, and some other small appliances. I probably should curate it.

Absolutely love the built in, pull out knife block and utensil bins, which we have next to the range. WE have a knife block and 4 bins.

[Anonymous]

1) Drawers: you will absolutely need regular base cabinets for the following things: cutting boards, baking sheets and tins, your stand mixer, lasagna pans. So don’t do all of them as drawers.

I got deep drawers for the following items- kids plates and cups (so they can get them themselves), cloth napkins, ziplock bags and aluminum foil (we use the restaurant size ones and they fit in the drawer so we never have to lug it out- we cut in the big drawer) dish towels and utensils. We have Corner cabinets for bowls that extend out. We have pull out base cabinets inserts for spices.

Your space will determine what you need for cabinet design. Drawers are great. Wall cabinets work well for plates cups and bowls. For the love of all that is holy: do not use open shelving if you cook.

2) stainless steel sinks are the way to go. We like our stainless steel workstation sink but never use the inserts unless it’s the holidays. Porcelain breaks things. We learned that the hard way. And to be honest, scratches don’t bother me. But the noise while cleaning dishes does. And kids plopping plates in and chipping them does.

3) cooktop- we stuck with gas and got a high powered Asian brand vent hood- Fotile. My husband was skeptical, but it’s super powerful and it cleans easier (glass touch screen). I also like the hands free sensor and the “off gas” sensor to keep the kitchen fresh.

The most important part of a range hood: making sure you can get at least a 6” duct for it. Ideally: 8” duct. For sound.

Most people will tell you to get it built in. But those people have never tried to get built up grease off of painted wood.


4) we have a separate bar, but the coffee station we ran a line from the fridge to the coffee maker. It’s not hard and our breakfast prep area is so much easier now. It’s basically an appliance area (coffee, toaster oven, microwave) area about 48” long next to the fridge. It’s perfect for morning groggies. We organized it with a cabinet for coffee mugs, coffee supplies, a drawer for teas. It’s awesome.

5) I got a regular range because we use a breville toaster oven more than the regular oven. The kids can help easily and it cost so much less money to do so. I don’t mind bending over- just make sure you get the right gliding shelves.

6) fridge- make sure your fridge has a high ice capacity. This is really the only thing I know for sure. I miss my side by side fridge because we never ran out of ice.

7) countertops- go quartz. Stains are a pain.

8) on the double dishwashers: it’s the dream. I am contemplating during our laundry room into a butlers pantry kitchen and stacking the washer and dryer to just get it to fit.

9) hardwood floors are great for kitchens! Don’t do vinyl. Don’t do tile. Do the hardwood and get a huge ruggable to cover up the space to prevent damages. You can buy the extra covers for easily weekly cleanings. Also- if it does get damaged in 15 years: you resend and seal. Much more affordable.

[Anonymous]

I’m always happiest with a long stretch of continuous worktop between the sink and the stovetop, with pullout trash underneath.

I don’t care as much about the fridge in the work triangle but it shouldn’t be far away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m always happiest with a long stretch of continuous worktop between the sink and the stovetop, with pullout trash underneath.

I don’t care as much about the fridge in the work triangle but it shouldn’t be far away.

OP here. Why pullout trash? I've been thinking about keeping trash bin out because it can be bigger and seal well (with the step opening). Is that not necessary?

[Anonymous]

We went all out on our kitchen remodel (bought a fixer upper and just dealt with it for 10 years so we felt we deserved it 🤪)

Thermador 36 inch induction. Love love love. The entire surface is a burner. 36 inch double fire clay sink (not sure why you’d hate on that, I love it!). Miele double wall oven and counter depth fridge. Spent a fortune but we use the kitchen a lot! We compromised on foot path- it’s not ideal, but it’s great for working in. Also have a giant island with four seats. Family eats there every night.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m always happiest with a long stretch of continuous worktop between the sink and the stovetop, with pullout trash underneath.

I don’t care as much about the fridge in the work triangle but it shouldn’t be far away.

OP here. Why pullout trash? I've been thinking about keeping trash bin out because it can be bigger and seal well (with the step opening). Is that not necessary?

I just like having the trash right where I’m prepping. And I like not seeing it. I think this is just preference. Pull out definitely creates more cleaning.

[Anonymous]

Agree on pot filler. I don't use mine often enough to justify the cost.

Get the bigger fridge if you really cook. The counter depth holds so little. One trick is pull out the cabinets to meet the depth of the fridge. This gives you the cabinet depth look plus you get deeper counters.

Get the double dishwashers if you have the space.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do you have any small kitchen design tips for homeowners who actually cook? Regrets? Or sources that you found useful? The Mainline Kitchen Design blog had a post about how the most expensive kitchens they design are typically never used, so it seems like I generally can't rely on the design sites for this. And I should avoid some items that are often featured (white fireclay sinks, SubZero appliances, pot fillers, etc).

Here's our list so far:
* Kitchen sink: Wide and deep stainless steel, perhaps this Rohl, or a 32inch ish one. https://www.ferguson.com/product/rohl-culinario-37-78-x-18-in-no-hole-stainless-steel-single-bowl-undermount-kitchen-sink-rruw3616sb/_/R-7525739?fromplp=true&trackSignal=true. This size and material will help with washing lots of big pots, etc. According to Mainline and some other sources, those fireclay ones aren't practical. Don't have windows by sink go all the way down to the sill as those are difficult to clean.
* Cooktop: Induction. Don't bother with Wolf.  Kenji seems to think induction is fine for the vast majority of dishes. Also much easier to clean.* NO pot filler, try to find spot for wet bar/ second sink instead. Mainline said they can cause damage. I also put water in hot water boiler first anyway.
* Wet bar/ coffee station: Try to find spot for extra sink (if possible), coffee station, and small drink fridge. Helps with foot traffic and incorporating kitchen into open dining space.
* Hood: Worth getting one according to another thread. Not sure which kind...seems like some are more about show.
* Oven: Wall oven. Easier to use for heavy items, helps avoid arm burns (I have many). Don't necessarily need to use up space for a double.
* Fridge: 36 inch, counterdepth is big enough. French door. Don't bother with Subzero, probably do Bosch. Our appliance repairperson said to avoid LG and Samsung, and that Subzero compressor is same as cheaper fridges. Think about fridge placement, as we should avoid foot traffic coming through the cooking area; wet bar/ small drink fridge would also help. Wonder whether we should not both with panels as that would limit options.
* Countertops: Have at least one area of continuous/ longer counter space. Not sure about material. Seems like granite is the most practical, but are there better materials now? Is butcher block ok for the island?  I don't mind if it looks used, but wasn't sure if there are other downsides.
* Storage: Drawers are better than cabinets. Can place pull out drawers for pans under the cooktop, like here https://www.thekitchn.com/cooks-country-editor-eva-katzs-homey-hardworking-kitchen-kitchen-tour-215478?. Ask for toe kick drawers https://www.kraftmaid.com/toe-kick-drawer/. Try to find spot for full length pantry, even if it's in the (casual/ open concept) dining area.
*Small appliances: Have spot for toaster oven, which we use more than microwave.

OP I am one of the other kitchen remodellers just get started (in other thread) and I also actually cook.

Single stainless sink is high on my list. We currently have a split one which annoys me so much for the number of times I have to handwash things that don’t come close to fitting either side (but would fit if it were single). Durability and ease of care are my priority for kitchen materials and I love stainless for that.

Also looking to switch from electric cooktop to induction cooktop.

Already have a wall oven. It’s a Bosch I bought a few years ago so will just keep the existing one.

Fridge - want bigger than our current 32” old one. Haven’t really looked at details yet.

Countertops - I am leaning towards quartz for being low maintenance. I hear soapstone can be good but don’t know anyone IRL with it.

For trash, we tend to slide it where we are prepping as needed. A pullout in that space would eliminate that need, but at the same time it’s not really a big deal to move it. Not sure I want to give up cabinet space for it.

Good luck OP!

[Anonymous]

I really cook and I got a 48 sub zero- so it would store food when I entertain. I also got a beverage refrigerator. I have GE Cafe wall ovens and a GE cage range top. I would probably looked at induction if I was doing it now. I have quartz counters and I am pretty MEH on them. I had granite previously and they were heat resistant.