A Brooklyn neighborhood’s experiment: residents police themselves

[Anonymous]

This is quite a fascinating experiment happening in NYC right now (gift link):
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/04/nyregion/brooklyn-brownsville-no-police.html?unlocked_article_code=63BEz642PH40E82-dq3V8S8fCA4_dblsZER_Ge93S85tIKal4mym_XqepwNI48pnHNRyvNIQrZp7WBtwk6oa7mthfGdsrYyIU2w2ggJwckO626a6SBavsgjMcXG2t992DuvWWyVgGoKgo2Gpvg_5ZSFtNLcorli94Iq5YZ24hvhfZ0X18d4JII_UwBdqR6XpDYAQi7EgfVG8qbSg_OPeg77sH9ttK7ArMIM8uVZjvNX2A99_LMIZwt19LAPjYtvWMATj_L3QG0irZp1LiRrjnQwqHrUfiRdkA5DvKF3gKAQrOFTonWrWTccAxe4qa1kKtx_tJpBUjKVOPpJQvElkJBbNu0OGge6rsw&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

It will be interesting to see the results. It also ensures “ownership” of a neighborhood. It would be great to get teens involved in patrols before they get into troublemaking, so they learn to lead in their neighborhood

[Anonymous]

See: George Zimmerman

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:See: George Zimmerman

These people are not carrying guns.

One commenter mentioned an apt comparison: volunteer fire and police departments in rural areas. These institutions are respected, the volunteers live in the community they serve, and it creates strong community ties/identity.

Why can’t cities have something similar?

[Anonymous]

Will be interesting to see the results here if they try it over a longer period

Seems like a great idea to have people in the community more involved with each other - I guess the question is where the line is between stuff they can handle and stuff they can’t, and how those situations get identified and addressed

[Anonymous]

Speaking as Black former resident of one of NYC’s worst neighborhoods, I don’t know why whoever thought of this program is pretending neighbors didn’t already step in to help and protect each other ESPECIALLY in impoverished areas where the police can’t be bothered. I don’t recall calling police a single time doing the 10 years I lived in my old hood. I relied on the local dboys (that’s drug dealers) to handle my ex and my former gym teacher to warn off kids who wanted to jump me.

BUUUUUT the reason police are needed is because the offenses that destroy lives aren’t as simple as teenagers chasing each other around to fist fight.

What’s going to happen when there’s a severe crime in progress or completed? For instance, armed robbery, rape, murder, arson, brutal domestic assault, severe child abuse. Is it remotely sensible to expect the neighborhood to self-police then?

And how do they account for the pressure that people who live in the neighborhood are going to feel NOT to report serious crimes that this initiative simply cannot handle? The publicity around this and eyes upon the neighborhood would make me feel as if I had to keep big things quiet in order to not make myself and neighbors look bad.

How do they differentiate between crime decreasing versus crime going unreported?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:See: George Zimmerman

These people are not carrying guns.

One commenter mentioned an apt comparison: volunteer fire and police departments in rural areas. These institutions are respected, the volunteers live in the community they serve, and it creates strong community ties/identity.

Why can’t cities have something similar?

Ah, so like Daniel Penny, then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Speaking as Black former resident of one of NYC’s worst neighborhoods, I don’t know why whoever thought of this program is pretending neighbors didn’t already step in to help and protect each other ESPECIALLY in impoverished areas where the police can’t be bothered. I don’t recall calling police a single time doing the 10 years I lived in my old hood. I relied on the local dboys (that’s drug dealers) to handle my ex and my former gym teacher to warn off kids who wanted to jump me.

BUUUUUT the reason police are needed is because the offenses that destroy lives aren’t as simple as teenagers chasing each other around to fist fight.

What’s going to happen when there’s a severe crime in progress or completed? For instance, armed robbery, rape, murder, arson, brutal domestic assault, severe child abuse. Is it remotely sensible to expect the neighborhood to self-police then?

And how do they account for the pressure that people who live in the neighborhood are going to feel NOT to report serious crimes that this initiative simply cannot handle? The publicity around this and eyes upon the neighborhood would make me feel as if I had to keep big things quiet in order to not make myself and neighbors look bad.

How do they differentiate between crime decreasing versus crime going unreported?

All excellent points

[Anonymous]

I thought it was interesting that the owner of the hair salon didn't want the program, she wanted the police to actually police. According to the article:

"Not everyone is convinced. Lise Perez, owner of Clara’s Beauty Salon on Pitkin Avenue, has 26 cameras around her store and works behind a counter protected by a thick plastic partition. No one can get in or out without her pressing a button.

“In this area, nobody feels too safe,” she said. “We’re all here surviving.”

The idea of five days in which police refer 911 calls unsettles her.

“It’s like they left us without protection,” she said. “It doesn’t give me peace.”"

I think it is a great idea, neighbors watching out for each other, but I am skeptical of how it will really work out. The volunteers are really neutral observers, they must have friends and enemies in the neighborhood, so how does that work when everyone should get equal treatment.

The other thing that wasn't explained was if the girl who was about 14 - so she could have been 12 or 13 - was being chased by a group of boys. She fled down a side street. Did anyone go check on her and get her side of the story?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:See: George Zimmerman

These people are not carrying guns.

One commenter mentioned an apt comparison: volunteer fire and police departments in rural areas. These institutions are respected, the volunteers live in the community they serve, and it creates strong community ties/identity.

Why can’t cities have something similar?

Already exist in NYC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Speaking as Black former resident of one of NYC’s worst neighborhoods, I don’t know why whoever thought of this program is pretending neighbors didn’t already step in to help and protect each other ESPECIALLY in impoverished areas where the police can’t be bothered. I don’t recall calling police a single time doing the 10 years I lived in my old hood. I relied on the local dboys (that’s drug dealers) to handle my ex and my former gym teacher to warn off kids who wanted to jump me.

BUUUUUT the reason police are needed is because the offenses that destroy lives aren’t as simple as teenagers chasing each other around to fist fight.

What’s going to happen when there’s a severe crime in progress or completed? For instance, armed robbery, rape, murder, arson, brutal domestic assault, severe child abuse. Is it remotely sensible to expect the neighborhood to self-police then?

And how do they account for the pressure that people who live in the neighborhood are going to feel NOT to report serious crimes that this initiative simply cannot handle? The publicity around this and eyes upon the neighborhood would make me feel as if I had to keep big things quiet in order to not make myself and neighbors look bad.

How do they differentiate between crime decreasing versus crime going unreported?

According to the article, the police will take on serious crime:

Several times a year, workers from Brownsville In Violence Out stand sentry on two blocks for five days. The police channel all 911 calls from that area to the civilians. Unless there is a major incident or a victim demands an arrest, officers, always in plainclothes, shadow the workers.

[Anonymous]

Do these people get paid?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Speaking as Black former resident of one of NYC’s worst neighborhoods, I don’t know why whoever thought of this program is pretending neighbors didn’t already step in to help and protect each other ESPECIALLY in impoverished areas where the police can’t be bothered. I don’t recall calling police a single time doing the 10 years I lived in my old hood. I relied on the local dboys (that’s drug dealers) to handle my ex and my former gym teacher to warn off kids who wanted to jump me.

BUUUUUT the reason police are needed is because the offenses that destroy lives aren’t as simple as teenagers chasing each other around to fist fight.

What’s going to happen when there’s a severe crime in progress or completed? For instance, armed robbery, rape, murder, arson, brutal domestic assault, severe child abuse. Is it remotely sensible to expect the neighborhood to self-police then?

And how do they account for the pressure that people who live in the neighborhood are going to feel NOT to report serious crimes that this initiative simply cannot handle? The publicity around this and eyes upon the neighborhood would make me feel as if I had to keep big things quiet in order to not make myself and neighbors look bad.

How do they differentiate between crime decreasing versus crime going unreported?

NP. But the police are there for serious offenses?

[Anonymous]

The Amish do this and they have all sorts of unreported crime

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Amish do this and they have all sorts of unreported crime

One way to reduce a crime rate is to not take track reports of crime.

[Anonymous]

Is Kyle part of the experiment?