Higher education is overrated

[Anonymous]

Most people shouldn't go to college, only the top 25% of our population really needs to be highly educated IMO.

-For certain highly technical or specialized professions it's obviously very important to have the right education (doctors, engineers, scientists, lawyers, etc)
-For most jobs in our economy, a college degree only serves as a way for employers to filter candidates, it doesn't make the candidate more qualified on its own. A college degree is something that intelligent people tend to have but it doesn't make them intelligent.
-This pointless and expensive filter acts as a drain on the economy by a) forcing young people to shell out tens or hundreds of thousands on a useless degree and b) delays their entry into the workforce where they could be earning and saving money starting at 18 instead of 22+
-Most career relevant learning doesn't occur in college but instead on the job
-College rigor is very low these days and lots of the required EC courses are complete jokes, I was a CS major in college and took a bunch of easy ECs to fulfill a pointless liberal arts requirement where I probably read about 5% of the assigned material and still passed with A's/B's. Barely learned anything. These courses DO NOT enrich you, they are just ways for the university to milk students of money.
-College drop out rates are very high, around 30-40% of students who go to college never even graduate. This highlights the fact that most students aren't college material and can't even handle the dumbed down courses that we have today.
-Universities have bloated budgets, they spend obscene amounts of money on things that contribute nothing to learning like sports, fancy new buildings, more admins, etc.
-The idea that EVERYONE needs to go to college paired with the ease of getting a student loan is why colleges can continue jacking up tuition every year since they know the gravy train of government money will never run out. This dynamic is almost ENTIRELY to blame for the student debt crisis. Stop handing out loans like candy and student debt/tuition will cease going up.
-Many students aren't even serious about studying and are only there to party, I don't have a problem with this but only if they do it on their own dime. We shouldn't allow dumb 18 year olds to borrow tens of thousands a year just to get drunk every weekend and eventually drop out. Huge numbers only enter college because of all the propaganda telling them they need to go, not because they're serious. A rite of passage shouldn't cost 200k and 4 years of your life.
-Even though I was in a technical field I still saw the diminishing returns of being a CS student for 4 years, I learned 80% of what I needed for my job the first 2 semesters, 90-95% within the first 4 semesters. I learned about as much in my first year on the job as a software engineer as I did in 4 years of college.

The college industry has become parasitical and is costing our country so much money with little to no gain for the majority of students. It's largely a waste of resources. I really don't think we would be worse off as a country if higher education enrollment took a 75% haircut, most intellectual achievement comes from a small number of people anyway (pareto principle). Someone with a middle of the bell curve IQ isn't going to benefit from going to school longer and we would all be better served if they entered the workforce at a younger age vs getting a degree to check off a box.

[Anonymous]

Gen Z and Gen Alpha have figured this out.

[Anonymous]

Virtually all of the employment growth in the last 30 years are in jobs that require a bachelors or higher degree. Don't tell people not to go to college until you've convinced employers it's in their best interest to hire a lot of people without college degrees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most people shouldn't go to college, only the top 25% of our population really needs to be highly educated IMO.

-For certain highly technical or specialized professions it's obviously very important to have the right education (doctors, engineers, scientists, lawyers, etc)
-For most jobs in our economy, a college degree only serves as a way for employers to filter candidates, it doesn't make the candidate more qualified on its own. A college degree is something that intelligent people tend to have but it doesn't make them intelligent.
-This pointless and expensive filter acts as a drain on the economy by a) forcing young people to shell out tens or hundreds of thousands on a useless degree and b) delays their entry into the workforce where they could be earning and saving money starting at 18 instead of 22+
-Most career relevant learning doesn't occur in college but instead on the job
-College rigor is very low these days and lots of the required EC courses are complete jokes, I was a CS major in college and took a bunch of easy ECs to fulfill a pointless liberal arts requirement where I probably read about 5% of the assigned material and still passed with A's/B's. Barely learned anything. These courses DO NOT enrich you, they are just ways for the university to milk students of money.
-College drop out rates are very high, around 30-40% of students who go to college never even graduate. This highlights the fact that most students aren't college material and can't even handle the dumbed down courses that we have today.
-Universities have bloated budgets, they spend obscene amounts of money on things that contribute nothing to learning like sports, fancy new buildings, more admins, etc.
-The idea that EVERYONE needs to go to college paired with the ease of getting a student loan is why colleges can continue jacking up tuition every year since they know the gravy train of government money will never run out. This dynamic is almost ENTIRELY to blame for the student debt crisis. Stop handing out loans like candy and student debt/tuition will cease going up.
-Many students aren't even serious about studying and are only there to party, I don't have a problem with this but only if they do it on their own dime. We shouldn't allow dumb 18 year olds to borrow tens of thousands a year just to get drunk every weekend and eventually drop out. Huge numbers only enter college because of all the propaganda telling them they need to go, not because they're serious. A rite of passage shouldn't cost 200k and 4 years of your life.
-Even though I was in a technical field I still saw the diminishing returns of being a CS student for 4 years, I learned 80% of what I needed for my job the first 2 semesters, 90-95% within the first 4 semesters. I learned about as much in my first year on the job as a software engineer as I did in 4 years of college.

The college industry has become parasitical and is costing our country so much money with little to no gain for the majority of students. It's largely a waste of resources. I really don't think we would be worse off as a country if higher education enrollment took a 75% haircut, most intellectual achievement comes from a small number of people anyway (pareto principle). Someone with a middle of the bell curve IQ isn't going to benefit from going to school longer and we would all be better served if they entered the workforce at a younger age vs getting a degree to check off a box.

Traditional (18-22 year old) undergrads can only take out $27,000 in student loans TOTAL. Not per year, total. Anything more is coming from Parent Plus Loans in PARENTS’ names or private student loans with an adult, typically parent, co-signer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Virtually all of the employment growth in the last 30 years are in jobs that require a bachelors or higher degree. Don't tell people not to go to college until you've convinced employers it's in their best interest to hire a lot of people without college degrees.

Employers are also starting to figure this out. A BA/BS isn't required for most jobs, the requirement was simply added as a way to screen applicants - but now it's outlived it's usefulness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most people shouldn't go to college, only the top 25% of our population really needs to be highly educated IMO.

-For certain highly technical or specialized professions it's obviously very important to have the right education (doctors, engineers, scientists, lawyers, etc)
-For most jobs in our economy, a college degree only serves as a way for employers to filter candidates, it doesn't make the candidate more qualified on its own. A college degree is something that intelligent people tend to have but it doesn't make them intelligent.
-This pointless and expensive filter acts as a drain on the economy by a) forcing young people to shell out tens or hundreds of thousands on a useless degree and b) delays their entry into the workforce where they could be earning and saving money starting at 18 instead of 22+
-Most career relevant learning doesn't occur in college but instead on the job
-College rigor is very low these days and lots of the required EC courses are complete jokes, I was a CS major in college and took a bunch of easy ECs to fulfill a pointless liberal arts requirement where I probably read about 5% of the assigned material and still passed with A's/B's. Barely learned anything. These courses DO NOT enrich you, they are just ways for the university to milk students of money.
-College drop out rates are very high, around 30-40% of students who go to college never even graduate. This highlights the fact that most students aren't college material and can't even handle the dumbed down courses that we have today.
-Universities have bloated budgets, they spend obscene amounts of money on things that contribute nothing to learning like sports, fancy new buildings, more admins, etc.
-The idea that EVERYONE needs to go to college paired with the ease of getting a student loan is why colleges can continue jacking up tuition every year since they know the gravy train of government money will never run out. This dynamic is almost ENTIRELY to blame for the student debt crisis. Stop handing out loans like candy and student debt/tuition will cease going up.
-Many students aren't even serious about studying and are only there to party, I don't have a problem with this but only if they do it on their own dime. We shouldn't allow dumb 18 year olds to borrow tens of thousands a year just to get drunk every weekend and eventually drop out. Huge numbers only enter college because of all the propaganda telling them they need to go, not because they're serious. A rite of passage shouldn't cost 200k and 4 years of your life.
-Even though I was in a technical field I still saw the diminishing returns of being a CS student for 4 years, I learned 80% of what I needed for my job the first 2 semesters, 90-95% within the first 4 semesters. I learned about as much in my first year on the job as a software engineer as I did in 4 years of college.

The college industry has become parasitical and is costing our country so much money with little to no gain for the majority of students. It's largely a waste of resources. I really don't think we would be worse off as a country if higher education enrollment took a 75% haircut, most intellectual achievement comes from a small number of people anyway (pareto principle). Someone with a middle of the bell curve IQ isn't going to benefit from going to school longer and we would all be better served if they entered the workforce at a younger age vs getting a degree to check off a box.

Top 25% as defined by…SAT scores? Parental wealth? IQ? Travel sports participation?

[Anonymous]

Yes, lots of jobs shouldn't require a degree but the reality is that credential inflation is real and jobs often do require the degree. Mainly graduating college serves as filter to show that you can stick with something a bit challenging over a sustained period of time, deal with administrative hoops, and most students should get some experience with writing, speaking, completing projects. It's also 4-more years of maturity vs a new HS graduate.

Everybody needs SOME education after HS. Trade school should be considered by more students. 2-year credentials from CC can also be a good option, esp. health tech type jobs. But a HS diploma only is a big risk to take with your life.

[Anonymous]

Yes OP only the elite should go to college & work WFH 9-5 desk jobs. Everybody else should work 12 hours/day in Amazon Warehouses and pray to Jeff Bezos or dig ditches.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Virtually all of the employment growth in the last 30 years are in jobs that require a bachelors or higher degree. Don't tell people not to go to college until you've convinced employers it's in their best interest to hire a lot of people without college degrees.

Employers are also starting to figure this out. A BA/BS isn't required for most jobs, the requirement was simply added as a way to screen applicants - but now it's outlived it's usefulness.

Any evidence for the idea that employers are figuring this out? Like more up to date data showing that job growth is more likely to be found in positions that don't require a BA?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Virtually all of the employment growth in the last 30 years are in jobs that require a bachelors or higher degree. Don't tell people not to go to college until you've convinced employers it's in their best interest to hire a lot of people without college degrees.

Employers are also starting to figure this out. A BA/BS isn't required for most jobs, the requirement was simply added as a way to screen applicants - but now it's outlived it's usefulness.

Any evidence for the idea that employers are figuring this out? Like more up to date data showing that job growth is more likely to be found in positions that don't require a BA?

You might find more success without a degree in smaller cities vs. DC/NY/LA etc. My nieces and nephews in Norfolk seem to be doing fine without college. One works for a big insurance company that hired her to work customer phone lines and then they train and promote from within. Another did auto tech in HS, worked for a dealer for a while, and now has his own auto repair business. Another trained as a tree trimmer and has his own business doing that. All own their own homes, have kids, seem happy with their lives. Key is to live in a low-cost area where it is more common to not go to college.

[Anonymous]

I worked in CyberSecurity for a Managed Security Professional Service with about 200 employees who are cyber security analysts, and over 70% of the security analysts are college dropouts. The CEO of the company also didn't attend college, he was a Peter Thiel's 100K scholarship recipient and he used part of that money to build the company. When it comes to Computer Science or CyberSecurity, you need a college degree to succeed.

[Anonymous]

The only reason that everyone needs a college degree is that high school graduation is apparently a birthright now. So it doesn’t mean anything.

[Anonymous]

Of course. If I want my floors mopped, I do not need an employee with a college degree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Of course. If I want my floors mopped, I do not need an employee with a college degree.

I know DCUM is a popular read amongst my employees. So, without naming names, if any one of you is the sort that won't mop his own da** floor I hope you quit before I hear about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Virtually all of the employment growth in the last 30 years are in jobs that require a bachelors or higher degree. Don't tell people not to go to college until you've convinced employers it's in their best interest to hire a lot of people without college degrees.

Employers are also starting to figure this out. A BA/BS isn't required for most jobs, the requirement was simply added as a way to screen applicants - but now it's outlived it's usefulness.

Any evidence for the idea that employers are figuring this out? Like more up to date data showing that job growth is more likely to be found in positions that don't require a BA?

You might find more success without a degree in smaller cities vs. DC/NY/LA etc. My nieces and nephews in Norfolk seem to be doing fine without college. One works for a big insurance company that hired her to work customer phone lines and then they train and promote from within. Another did auto tech in HS, worked for a dealer for a while, and now has his own auto repair business. Another trained as a tree trimmer and has his own business doing that. All own their own homes, have kids, seem happy with their lives. Key is to live in a low-cost area where it is more common to not go to college.

One problem with this approach is that the quality of life is garbage in most low cost areas where going to college is uncommon.