Not getting SES Interviews

[Anonymous]

I have been a GS-15 for 5 years, during which I primarily served in interagency strategic coordination roles which also include high level scientific/technical advisory aspects. For the last 2 years I have served in a senior executive detail role where I lead (but not directly supervise) several high level executives from different agencies across the federal government on an important interagency issue. I also regularly engage with agency heads and brief Congress, and have even testified multiple times in formal Congressional hearings. There is much more to my background but these are a few highlights.

I apply for SES roles in my field but can't seem to even make the interview panel. Obviously, there is something missing from my background, but I suppose I don't know what I don't know. I've a had a few people look at my ECQ's and the feedback is positive. They similarly don't understand why someone with my qualifications is having an issue. If this were a situation where I interviewed and was not selected I could understand, but I can't even get through the front door. Any advice on common attributes that are required but I may be missing? Perhaps it is difficult to break in due to the disadvantage of not already being an SES and the long time frame for OPM to certify ECQ's? Maybe agencies don't want to roll the dice and wait if they already have SESers applying to these roles?

Thanks!

[Anonymous]

Do you have any direct supervisory experience?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do you have any direct supervisory experience?

Yes, but not directly supervising feds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do you have any direct supervisory experience?

That was my first reaction too

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you have any direct supervisory experience?

Yes, but not directly supervising feds.

You need to take a supervisory detail. It will be very difficult to get promoted without supervisory experience. Another option is to get into an SES Candidate Development program. You do not need to be from the host agency to get in. The White House Leadership Development Program is also an option. Honestly though, you usually do need to be a supervisor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you have any direct supervisory experience?

Yes, but not directly supervising feds.

That's a huge hole in your app. probably too large to overcome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you have any direct supervisory experience?

Yes, but not directly supervising feds.

That's a huge hole in your app. probably too large to overcome.

OP here. Thanks. Right now I am supervising the supervisor who directly supervises fedeal staff, but this is not "official" because on paper we are both from different agencies. I understand the perceived hole, although it's kind of ridiculous. Many of the 2nd line SES in my field only directly supervise one or two people (e.g., a Director supervising the Deputy Director who supervises the staff).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you have any direct supervisory experience?

Yes, but not directly supervising feds.

That's a huge hole in your app. probably too large to overcome.

OP here. Thanks. Right now I am supervising the supervisor who directly supervises fedeal staff, but this is not "official" because on paper we are both from different agencies. I understand the perceived hole, although it's kind of ridiculous. Many of the 2nd line SES in my field only directly supervise one or two people (e.g., a Director supervising the Deputy Director who supervises the staff).

I actually do not think it’s ridiculous at all. If the SES to whom you refer have no supervisory experience prior to their current role, then maybe I can see why it annoys you, but in any case, some people get lucky and that’s not really something on which you can count. The fact is, program management, or management of work of contractors is not supervisory and team leaders often are not either. If you are the supervisor of record and you are responsible for the appraisals and careers of staff or other management, that’s the only experience that counts. If your ECQ is written in a way that is not understanding of this difference, that might be an issue. You can keep applying and hope to get lucky but your best bet is to take a year long detail somewhere that you are a direct supervisor to multiple Federal staff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you have any direct supervisory experience?

Yes, but not directly supervising feds.

That's a huge hole in your app. probably too large to overcome.

OP here. Thanks. Right now I am supervising the supervisor who directly supervises fedeal staff, but this is not "official" because on paper we are both from different agencies. I understand the perceived hole, although it's kind of ridiculous. Many of the 2nd line SES in my field only directly supervise one or two people (e.g., a Director supervising the Deputy Director who supervises the staff).

I actually do not think it’s ridiculous at all. If the SES to whom you refer have no supervisory experience prior to their current role, then maybe I can see why it annoys you, but in any case, some people get lucky and that’s not really something on which you can count. The fact is, program management, or management of work of contractors is not supervisory and team leaders often are not either. If you are the supervisor of record and you are responsible for the appraisals and careers of staff or other management, that’s the only experience that counts. If your ECQ is written in a way that is not understanding of this difference, that might be an issue. You can keep applying and hope to get lucky but your best bet is to take a year long detail somewhere that you are a direct supervisor to multiple Federal staff.

Apologies. Let me clarify. The ridiculous part is the apparent requirement to supervise feds. I have supervisory experience outside of the federal government, and within the federal government, but the latter is mostly long term contractors and postdocs. I disagree that supervising postdocs and scientific contractors does not entail being responsible for their careers. In fact several keep me as a mentor to this day so I am still advising them on their careers!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you have any direct supervisory experience?

Yes, but not directly supervising feds.

That's a huge hole in your app. probably too large to overcome.

OP here. Thanks. Right now I am supervising the supervisor who directly supervises fedeal staff, but this is not "official" because on paper we are both from different agencies. I understand the perceived hole, although it's kind of ridiculous. Many of the 2nd line SES in my field only directly supervise one or two people (e.g., a Director supervising the Deputy Director who supervises the staff).

I actually do not think it’s ridiculous at all. If the SES to whom you refer have no supervisory experience prior to their current role, then maybe I can see why it annoys you, but in any case, some people get lucky and that’s not really something on which you can count. The fact is, program management, or management of work of contractors is not supervisory and team leaders often are not either. If you are the supervisor of record and you are responsible for the appraisals and careers of staff or other management, that’s the only experience that counts. If your ECQ is written in a way that is not understanding of this difference, that might be an issue. You can keep applying and hope to get lucky but your best bet is to take a year long detail somewhere that you are a direct supervisor to multiple Federal staff.

Apologies. Let me clarify. The ridiculous part is the apparent requirement to supervise feds. I have supervisory experience outside of the federal government, and within the federal government, but the latter is mostly long term contractors and postdocs. I disagree that supervising postdocs and scientific contractors does not entail being responsible for their careers. In fact several keep me as a mentor to this day so I am still advising them on their careers!

Generally, they only care if you were the supervisor of record.

I do think your private industry experience SHOULD count, so maybe there is something in your ECQ that doesn’t highlight that in the right way.

I think from this thread at least 2 people (I wrote several of these responses) could easily identify that you’d not been an official supervisor in this manner, so clearly that’s something you need to reframe. If you have the experience you need, it’s your presentation of that experience that’s your issue.

Do not attempt to argue that your experience that’s not direct is valid. You’d be better off acknowledging a difference and highlighting why it is still relevant.

[Anonymous]

Valid was a bad word. I didn’t mean that. I meant applicable to this scenario. Clearly, it does matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Valid was a bad word. I didn’t mean that. I meant applicable to this scenario. Clearly, it does matter.

No worries. Thank you for the advice. I will take a closer look at how I am framing that supervisory experience. You have a "valid" point there.

[Anonymous]

You need the superior experience.

[Anonymous]

Speaking from experience—leading people is a really important. Take another look at how you framed your experience there. Upfront you should note the breath of your supervisory experience (within government and private sector). how have your non federal people leadership skills helped you in federal service? Also, how are your results looking for leading people? Hopefully you’re using examples that clearly show how you’ve overcome challenges and setbacks to get people to achieve results. Remember, each ECQ has subcompetencies. With people leadership ECQ boards want to see how resilient you are when faced with challenging people situations. When I applied for SES 3 years ago, I used two strong examples of turning marginal performing employees into near superstars. If you don’t have this experience, you can talk about difficult situations leading people on a collaboration effort (inter or intra agency workgroups). There is always a difficult character or two and plenty of “people” challenges and setbacks.

One of the SES ECQ books I purchased broke down the sun competencies for each ECQ. And I was able to ensure i hit each one.

Another thing—how is your business acumen ECQ? That is usually the hardest competency “to pass.” Most people get that all wrong because they don’t have the actual experience here.

Lastly—remember that most agencies like to hire SES from within. Some hire externally, but I believe most come from within. They like to hire people they know or someone in the SES ranks can vouch for them. Perhaps you can work a strategy at your current agency. If not, doing a CDP might help you. But here’s the thing about CDPs—most are going to pick candidates from within their agency. If you are picked externally, you current organization will have to agree to let you detail over. I’m sure you know where I’m going with this…

[Anonymous]

OP here. First, thanks to everyone who commented and/or provided advice. I sincerely appreciate the kindness of complete strangers on this board.

I reached out to agency executive HR and requested panel feedback from the most recent rejection. I received a bulleted list which contained comments. Some were positive, others attempted to explain deficiencies. All were highly subjective in that it wouldn’t surprise me if someone else who read my application materials thought the exact opposite of a given comment. Many of them were somewhat amorphous. Two of the comments completely contradicted one another, i.e., “candidate needs experience outside of federal gov’t”, “candidate’s strength includes experience in industry.” Huh?

Perhaps most important to this thread, there was no mention of a lack of supervisory experience. Zero.