Research by HS kids?

[Anonymous]

This board often claims published research as a necessary requirement for top college admissions. Has anyone read this research? I know a lot of smart kids and they don’t seem ready for real research. So I guess I call BS and wonder why colleges are seeking this? I used to work at a prestigious job, and I can tell you, the college interns were not ready to write memos, let alone research. And, the ones who thought they were ready for high level critical thinking were, quite frankly, the worst. So, who are these HS kids?

I have heard of kids being research assistants in labs (usually because an adult helped them get organized) but only doing what they were told, not driving any of the critical thinking (which actually seems appropriate for a high school kid). I have also read published papers in the humanities written by high school students, and while fine, I didn’t think they were setting the world on fire (again, the papers felt expected and appropriate). This includes my kid, btw.

Anyway, I find the idea of truly independent, cutting-edge HS research suspect. Are we talking past one another?

[Anonymous]

I’m with you. Scientist type myself. Worked in NIH research labs as a HS student every summer in late 80s. They finally put me on a publication when I was already in college.

There are literarily companies these days that help kids get set up with what seems to be bogus research projects at schools that the companies pay (which is really parent money).

There are a few real things like regeneron prizes and there are kids who still do NIH type work these days but publications are not usually forthcoming unless the same said parents have bought them via these for profit programs.

It’s all part of this performative dance we do as the only country in the world that looks at ECs and research for 16 - 18 year olds. This doesn’t happen in the UK or France. I’m sure they turn out kids just as smart

We’ve decided somewhere that we need resumes that look like super humans to get into a top 50.

It’s all BS and many of these research projects and club presidencies are bogus, no work or bought by mom and dad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This board often claims published research as a necessary requirement for top college admissions. Has anyone read this research? I know a lot of smart kids and they don’t seem ready for real research. So I guess I call BS and wonder why colleges are seeking this? I used to work at a prestigious job, and I can tell you, the college interns were not ready to write memos, let alone research. And, the ones who thought they were ready for high level critical thinking were, quite frankly, the worst. So, who are these HS kids?

I have heard of kids being research assistants in labs (usually because an adult helped them get organized) but only doing what they were told, not driving any of the critical thinking (which actually seems appropriate for a high school kid). I have also read published papers in the humanities written by high school students, and while fine, I didn’t think they were setting the world on fire (again, the papers felt expected and appropriate). This includes my kid, btw.

Anyway, I find the idea of truly independent, cutting-edge HS research suspect. Are we talking past one another?

I think that, most of the time, what happens is that those kids go to university-sponsored summer science programs for high school students. The universities help the kids put together research projects. Maybe a lot of the kids work in supporting roles, or do nice projects that sputter out. Maybe the great kids finish projects and publish papers in what adults think of as bad journals. Maybe an occasional spectacular kid actually publishes a serious paper in a selective, peer-reviewed journal.

[Anonymous]

My unhooked kid is it HYP and certainly has no published research to her name. She did plenty of other cool things outside of academics but truly they were things that a teenager could do, not a mini pretend adult. That said, there is a public high school not too far from us that has a special STEM focused “school within a school“ that gives the kids a lot of guidance on developing independent research projects that they then take to the big science fairs, and some of those kids have some wildly impressive projects to their name. I imagine other schools out there offer some thing similar. But, yeah, a highschooler getting their name on something that’s been published is going to be mostly a favor to them from the real scientists not because a 17 year old is making these huge contributions an academic circles.

[Anonymous]

Pay to play program

https://www.indigoresearch.org/program/high-school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m with you. Scientist type myself. Worked in NIH research labs as a HS student every summer in late 80s. They finally put me on a publication when I was already in college.

There are literarily companies these days that help kids get set up with what seems to be bogus research projects at schools that the companies pay (which is really parent money).

There are a few real things like regeneron prizes and there are kids who still do NIH type work these days but publications are not usually forthcoming unless the same said parents have bought them via these for profit programs.

It’s all part of this performative dance we do as the only country in the world that looks at ECs and research for 16 - 18 year olds. This doesn’t happen in the UK or France. I’m sure they turn out kids just as smart

We’ve decided somewhere that we need resumes that look like super humans to get into a top 50.

It’s all BS and many of these research projects and club presidencies are bogus, no work or bought by mom and dad.

What makes you think kids winning regeneron don’t have parent help?

[Anonymous]

My kid’s school has a required internship. He did it with a professor near where his school is. The professor’s RA gave him discreet research tasks and asked him to write up memos summarizing what he found. They were pleased and said they might add his name to the paper they were publishing. So officially he will have published research but what he contributed was definitely organized research tasks. He’s a great smart 17 year old and writes well but was not discovering science secrets on his own or anything.

[Anonymous]

DD started an internship at national lab junior year in HS. She continued to work on the project till sophomore year in college. Her name was on the publication. She put in a lot of time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid’s school has a required internship. He did it with a professor near where his school is. The professor’s RA gave him discreet research tasks and asked him to write up memos summarizing what he found. They were pleased and said they might add his name to the paper they were publishing. So officially he will have published research but what he contributed was definitely organized research tasks. He’s a great smart 17 year old and writes well but was not discovering science secrets on his own or anything.

From my perspective in context of this conversation, that is *fine* and what a university might expect experience wise in terms of an applicant having this exposure. Some people seem to think these kids need to have cured cancer or something.

[Anonymous]

It’s an open secret that the parents or parent’s connections do the work. only for college admission. Majority take majors completely different.

[Anonymous]

You all are generalizing. There are research opportunities that are not pay to play but they are only appropriate for a kid that wants to do slot of independent work. I am not a research scientist and DC did not pay to play. Contacted dozens and dozens and dozens of professors and labs and finally set up a project with one amazing and generous prof. He was very hands off but gave DC the guidance needed to set up the research question correctly and would point out things to look out for, and flaws with DCs data analysis. Took on DC two summers in a row and it was a valuable experience. Very valuable.

[Anonymous]

Even for kids that can afford to pay to play ....the pay to play advantage is used for music, sports, test prep, etc.

[Anonymous]

I teach college in a non-STEM discipline. Even my undergraduates are not helpful in a research context. We teach them and prepare them as best we can, but the real research training happens in graduate school. It's just the nature of my field.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I teach college in a non-STEM discipline. Even my undergraduates are not helpful in a research context. We teach them and prepare them as best we can, but the real research training happens in graduate school. It's just the nature of my field.

The professor that mentored my HS kid was amazing. Hard science prof and DC had difficult tasks. It was great and the prof used DCs work in a paper and invited DC back to do more work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I teach college in a non-STEM discipline. Even my undergraduates are not helpful in a research context. We teach them and prepare them as best we can, but the real research training happens in graduate school. It's just the nature of my field.

The professor that mentored my HS kid was amazing. Hard science prof and DC had difficult tasks. It was great and the prof used DCs work in a paper and invited DC back to do more work.

Although did in fact tell DC it was normally graduate level tasks but some younger students can manage it...depends.