Skipping fcps math classes

[Anonymous]

Another thread brought this to my attention, and I wanted to get other opinions on it. DC is in 7th and is on track to take geometry in 8th, Alg2 in 9th, precalculus in 10th, then calc bc in 11th. But DC does outside math enrichment and is already up to Alg2. DC enjoys math enough that he will probably continue that sequence regardless of what his FCPS track is. Since elementary school, DC knows that FCPS math class is "for review" and treats it as such. So we assumed he was going to stay on the track above, like everyone else in his AAP class.

But some DCUM posters are saying it might be advantageous to take geometry in the summer so that DC would be in Alg2 in 8th. I guess that would free up 1 year of math in high school... Are there any other pros/cons? He might lose some WGPA because he loses the WGPA bump from honors Alg2? Note that there is no concern about whether he can handle a skip - as mentioned above, DC is already a couple years past the FCPS curriculum track and is aiming for USAJMO, so fairly advanced in math.

[Anonymous]

Absolutely not with the geometry summer course.

[Anonymous]

Ask your school if he can take both geometry and Algebra 2 in 8th grade. When DD was a student at Longfellow, about 10 kids did that with her.

[Anonymous]

I’d be concerned with them forgetting math for freshman year of college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Another thread brought this to my attention, and I wanted to get other opinions on it. DC is in 7th and is on track to take geometry in 8th, Alg2 in 9th, precalculus in 10th, then calc bc in 11th. But DC does outside math enrichment and is already up to Alg2. DC enjoys math enough that he will probably continue that sequence regardless of what his FCPS track is. Since elementary school, DC knows that FCPS math class is "for review" and treats it as such. So we assumed he was going to stay on the track above, like everyone else in his AAP class.

But some DCUM posters are saying it might be advantageous to take geometry in the summer so that DC would be in Alg2 in 8th. I guess that would free up 1 year of math in high school... Are there any other pros/cons? He might lose some WGPA because he loses the WGPA bump from honors Alg2? Note that there is no concern about whether he can handle a skip - as mentioned above, DC is already a couple years past the FCPS curriculum track and is aiming for USAJMO, so fairly advanced in math.

USAJMO is completely a different ballgame. If that's truly his motivation, I would recommend he find a strategy to maximize his time spent working and thinking about hard problems (AIME to USAJMO difficulty). This means minimizing the "distraction" from school math. Summer is often a perfect time to make significant math progress toward his goal, as he can spend a lot of time doing that without dealing with school (and also have leftover time for summer fun). So definitely do not recommend wasting 5 weeks on FCPS summer geometry. If he is good enough where he has taken a rigorous geometry course, such as AoPS, you/he should try very hard to petition the school to just have him take a test to get out of it.. why waste 5 weeks relearning material taught at a more basic level?

My assumption is that he truly enjoys math/math contests and wants to excel at a high level in them, and he doesn't care about acceleration for acceleration sake, like many on these threads. If so, he should cut out "time sink" activities that he doesn't really enjoy/care about and also just worry less/don't buy in to the college race craze..

[Anonymous]

Op here. I think my question wasn't clear. DC is learning math outside of FCPS that is catered to his speed. Given that, is there any good reasons for changing his FCPS track, given that he's already on the "max" track for high achieving students? Like, removing honors Alg2 from his HS transcript may lower his WGPA? But it might free his Jr year up for another AP? Are there other considerations that we are missing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another thread brought this to my attention, and I wanted to get other opinions on it. DC is in 7th and is on track to take geometry in 8th, Alg2 in 9th, precalculus in 10th, then calc bc in 11th. But DC does outside math enrichment and is already up to Alg2. DC enjoys math enough that he will probably continue that sequence regardless of what his FCPS track is. Since elementary school, DC knows that FCPS math class is "for review" and treats it as such. So we assumed he was going to stay on the track above, like everyone else in his AAP class.

But some DCUM posters are saying it might be advantageous to take geometry in the summer so that DC would be in Alg2 in 8th. I guess that would free up 1 year of math in high school... Are there any other pros/cons? He might lose some WGPA because he loses the WGPA bump from honors Alg2? Note that there is no concern about whether he can handle a skip - as mentioned above, DC is already a couple years past the FCPS curriculum track and is aiming for USAJMO, so fairly advanced in math.

USAJMO is completely a different ballgame. If that's truly his motivation, I would recommend he find a strategy to maximize his time spent working and thinking about hard problems (AIME to USAJMO difficulty). This means minimizing the "distraction" from school math. Summer is often a perfect time to make significant math progress toward his goal, as he can spend a lot of time doing that without dealing with school (and also have leftover time for summer fun). So definitely do not recommend wasting 5 weeks on FCPS summer geometry. If he is good enough where he has taken a rigorous geometry course, such as AoPS, you/he should try very hard to petition the school to just have him take a test to get out of it.. why waste 5 weeks relearning material taught at a more basic level?

My assumption is that he truly enjoys math/math contests and wants to excel at a high level in them, and he doesn't care about acceleration for acceleration sake, like many on these threads. If so, he should cut out "time sink" activities that he doesn't really enjoy/care about and also just worry less/don't buy in to the college race craze..

Op here. Thanks for the reply.. I wrote my 19:52 response before reading this one. Ssuppose DC tests outt of geometry (he could very well test out of Alg2 too)... Does that help him in high school ( insofar as building a resume for his dream school MIT)?

It might be "better" just to check off boxes by taking the FCPS math courses in the usual sequence, right? Even if these courses aren't helping much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

My assumption is that he truly enjoys math/math contests and wants to excel at a high level in them, and he doesn't care about acceleration for acceleration sake, like many on these threads. If so, he should cut out "time sink" activities that he doesn't really enjoy/care about and also just worry less/don't buy in to the college race craze..

Op here again. You're right that he (and I) don't care about acceleration for acceleration sake. But he still wants to maximize his high school curriculum for college applications.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op here. I think my question wasn't clear. DC is learning math outside of FCPS that is catered to his speed. Given that, is there any good reasons for changing his FCPS track, given that he's already on the "max" track for high achieving students? Like, removing honors Alg2 from his HS transcript may lower his WGPA? But it might free his Jr year up for another AP? Are there other considerations that we are missing?

Others can weigh in but I responded just prior to your post.. if he's truly working on math on a different level than school (i.e math contest material, etc), it's not really very important whether he tries to switch tracks. If he's lucky enough to already love and be good at math, AND he's already motivating himself toward excelling in high level math contests such as the USAJMO, honestly school math will feel very boring by comparison. It's very, very difficult to do well at high level math contests without investing very significant chunks of time in training/solving problems. As such, worrying about AP courses is a distraction by comparison.. it's not really very relevant. Realistically, being overly busy with school classes would make it harder for him to find enough time to train/do more advanced math assuming that is what he wants to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here. I think my question wasn't clear. DC is learning math outside of FCPS that is catered to his speed. Given that, is there any good reasons for changing his FCPS track, given that he's already on the "max" track for high achieving students? Like, removing honors Alg2 from his HS transcript may lower his WGPA? But it might free his Jr year up for another AP? Are there other considerations that we are missing?

Others can weigh in but I responded just prior to your post.. if he's truly working on math on a different level than school (i.e math contest material, etc), it's not really very important whether he tries to switch tracks. If he's lucky enough to already love and be good at math, AND he's already motivating himself toward excelling in high level math contests such as the USAJMO, honestly school math will feel very boring by comparison. It's very, very difficult to do well at high level math contests without investing very significant chunks of time in training/solving problems. As such, worrying about AP courses is a distraction by comparison.. it's not really very relevant. Realistically, being overly busy with school classes would make it harder for him to find enough time to train/do more advanced math assuming that is what he wants to do.

I saw your other posts about optimizing for dream school/MIT, etc. MIT doesn't really care at all about APs, on the other hand they care a lot more than probably any other school about math contests (these days completely sweeps all the top places on the Putnam exam, it's not even close compared to other colleges). Obviously there's a lot of luck, but his best bet for MIT is to stand out math contests either at a high level (USAMO/MOP) or alternatively via research/college math classes etc. Unless he's heading for TJ which does have significant post-AP classes, or he plans on taking college level classes in the latter part of high school, I don't think trying to bump up by one class will make a difference (he will still have to suffer through watered down mathematics, as an example, see here: https://blog.evanchen.cc/2016/05/27/fill-in-the-blank/ )

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I saw your other posts about optimizing for dream school/MIT, etc. MIT doesn't really care at all about APs, on the other hand they care a lot more than probably any other school about math contests (these days completely sweeps all the top places on the Putnam exam, it's not even close compared to other colleges). Obviously there's a lot of luck, but his best bet for MIT is to stand out math contests either at a high level (USAMO/MOP) or alternatively via research/college math classes etc.
Unless he's heading for TJ which does have significant post-AP classes, or he plans on taking college level classes in the latter part of high school, I don't think trying to bump up by one class will make a difference (he will still have to suffer through watered down mathematics, as an example, see here: https://blog.evanchen.cc/2016/05/27/fill-in-the-blank/ )

Great points. My concern is that he's a bit too young to "put all his eggs" in the USAMO basket. If studying 8 hours a day guaranteed him USAMO/MOP, he would probably do it. I mean, if swimming for 8 hours a day guaranteed a spot on the Olympic team, we'd be doing that too ( or instead?). But neither is guaranteed for a bright 7th grader... So we need to plan for a more "normal" college application, just in case.

But let me say that your points about not worrying for his FCPS track is well received, and the blog certainly shows others have had similar 3xperieneces.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I saw your other posts about optimizing for dream school/MIT, etc. MIT doesn't really care at all about APs, on the other hand they care a lot more than probably any other school about math contests (these days completely sweeps all the top places on the Putnam exam, it's not even close compared to other colleges). Obviously there's a lot of luck, but his best bet for MIT is to stand out math contests either at a high level (USAMO/MOP) or alternatively via research/college math classes etc.
Unless he's heading for TJ which does have significant post-AP classes, or he plans on taking college level classes in the latter part of high school, I don't think trying to bump up by one class will make a difference (he will still have to suffer through watered down mathematics, as an example, see here: https://blog.evanchen.cc/2016/05/27/fill-in-the-blank/ )

Great points. My concern is that he's a bit too young to "put all his eggs" in the USAMO basket. If studying 8 hours a day guaranteed him USAMO/MOP, he would probably do it. I mean, if swimming for 8 hours a day guaranteed a spot on the Olympic team, we'd be doing that too ( or instead?). But neither is guaranteed for a bright 7th grader... So we need to plan for a more "normal" college application, just in case.

But let me say that your points about not worrying for his FCPS track is well received, and the blog certainly shows others have had similar 3xperieneces.

Agreed that planning for college without anxiety/pressure is tricky these days. I think the most important thing is to ensure that he is stimulated and challenged and continues to enjoy the act of learning. In school, especially later in high school, he will often find himself having to 'perform' for the test, or at at a minimum he'll feel that pressure from friends and even teachers. I think that the more he focuses on the joy and learning for learning sake, and the less on the results of tests/college apps, the happier he will feel. In 7th grade there is generally a lot less tests/homework and a lot more time for enriching learning, so he should take advantage of that (whether it's doing math outside of school, playing chess, music, etc as long as he loves it and is being challenged). Now assuming he's really into MIT at this age since you mentioned it, strategically it would be good to pick a few things he loves and go deep into them (whether it's math, or something else, or a combination). Doesn't mean he needs to focus on specific goals like USAMO that could be unattainable, but e.g if he enjoys doing math for fun 1 hour every day, he will make significant growth if he continues doing that over a period of time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op here. I think my question wasn't clear. DC is learning math outside of FCPS that is catered to his speed. Given that, is there any good reasons for changing his FCPS track, given that he's already on the "max" track for high achieving students? Like, removing honors Alg2 from his HS transcript may lower his WGPA? But it might free his Jr year up for another AP? Are there other considerations that we are missing?

He is no where close to being on the max track for high achieving kids. Probably more than 50% of the AAP kids from 6th - in all of FCPS - are on the same track he is on. Others, however are a year or two ahead of him- already.

[Anonymous]

High school classes taken in middle school are weighted the same way as those taken jn high school. Your DC won’t lose any WGPA points by taking algebra 2 in middle school. Moreover, if he later takes an extra post-AP class, his WGPA will be higher. If he already knows the material, why wait?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:High school classes taken in middle school are weighted the same way as those taken jn high school. Your DC won’t lose any WGPA points by taking algebra 2 in middle school. Moreover, if he later takes an extra post-AP class, his WGPA will be higher. If he already knows the material, why wait?

This is not true for summer school Algebra 2 bc only non honors is offered for this summer class.