The Carmel HS Video Vs. FCPS

[Anonymous]

Has anyone seen the video of the facilities at Carmel HS that is making the rounds?

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/local/hamilton-county/carmel/2023/02/13/carmel-high-school-students-tiktok-videos-natatorium-stadium-auditorium-studios-auto-shop/69899563007/

I know that what happens inside a building is more important than the building itself but the disparities between the facilities at that school and some of the run-down facilities in FCPS really make me feel guilty for living in a school district like FCPS that spends so much time on abstract discussions about “equity” yet pays so little attention to the condition of its facilities that trailers and cheap modulars are now just taken for granted.

Shame on Fairfax County and shame on FCPS! For a supposedly wealthy county, we don’t even come close to a random suburb of a mid-sized city in the Midwest when it comes to providing for our kids.

[Anonymous]

Guilty? What did you do to contribute to the situation? I feel absolutely no guilt...but then I also don't feel that our schools are crumbling hellscapes. My neighborhood schools in FCPS are nice and do what they need to do. And how can you even compare the two systems without doing an in depth analysis of the structure of their local governments and their population numbers. You are trying to stir up anger and discontent and whining because someone, somewhere else, has something nicer than you. If it bothers you to the point of guilt...you should move to where your kids will go to Mt. Carmel.

[Anonymous]

I came from a school district with relatively new school buildings. I appreciate that FCPS has a few new buildings, lots of older buildings, and has a renovation cycle rather than abandoning old school buildings, converting them to something else, selling them or tearing them down and rebuilding. There is continuity and conservation. There is some population growth rather than decline. These are generally markers of a good area and a good school system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Guilty? What did you do to contribute to the situation? I feel absolutely no guilt...but then I also don't feel that our schools are crumbling hellscapes. My neighborhood schools in FCPS are nice and do what they need to do. And how can you even compare the two systems without doing an in depth analysis of the structure of their local governments and their population numbers. You are trying to stir up anger and discontent and whining because someone, somewhere else, has something nicer than you. If it bothers you to the point of guilt...you should move to where your kids will go to Mt. Carmel.

Yeah, I know. But in our pyramid the schools that have been renovated recently seem to have gotten renovations that are very basic and not that nice compared to schools in other pyramids, and then they do nothing about some of the other schools. It feels like a combination of FCPS being underfunded and overwhelmed, on one hand, and deliberately steering resources elsewhere, on the other hand.

I don’t think it’s actually hurt the education my kids are receiving, but over time I definitely expect the pyramid to decline - like it or not people do pay attention to appearances and there’s such a big gap between the quality of facilities in many parts of FCPS now and the quality of facilities at schools in APS and LCPS (much less a beautiful facility like Carmel HS).

[Anonymous]

Small homogenous districts of well-off people with one high school can pour their money into it. FCPS is one of the largest districts in the country--it has a renovation cycle.

[Anonymous]

First of all Carmel is a pretty wealthy and desirable suburb of Indianapolis. Definitely not some random small Midwestern city. But yes - when you have a pretty well off area and you aren’t making the schools do double/triple/quadruple duty as health care providers, food banks, social services, places to learn English, etc. the schools can concentrate on just education and making it a pleasant environment for students.

That HS also has north of 5000 students, so by packing everyone in the suburb into one MASSIVE high school they do save some money on facilities and are then able to have a lot of cool extras. But I’m not sure if I’d want to go to a high school the size of an average liberal arts college. Carmel is geographically a pretty large suburb as well so some of those kids will have quite a bus ride. Don’t get me wrong that school looks awesome but there are always trade offs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone seen the video of the facilities at Carmel HS that is making the rounds?

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/local/hamilton-county/carmel/2023/02/13/carmel-high-school-students-tiktok-videos-natatorium-stadium-auditorium-studios-auto-shop/69899563007/

I know that what happens inside a building is more important than the building itself but the disparities between the facilities at that school and some of the run-down facilities in FCPS really make me feel guilty for living in a school district like FCPS that spends so much time on abstract discussions about “equity” yet pays so little attention to the condition of its facilities that trailers and cheap modulars are now just taken for granted.

Shame on Fairfax County and shame on FCPS! For a supposedly wealthy county, we don’t even come close to a random suburb of a mid-sized city in the Midwest when it comes to providing for our kids.

I mean, I don't know the situation but I assume local taxes fund schools and the rich people have arranged the districts in such a way that they can channel all their tax dollars into their beautiful facility while schools in nearby poorer districts fall to pieces. It's not a good thing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I came from a school district with relatively new school buildings. I appreciate that FCPS has a few new buildings, lots of older buildings, and has a renovation cycle rather than abandoning old school buildings, converting them to something else, selling them or tearing them down and rebuilding. There is continuity and conservation. There is some population growth rather than decline. These are generally markers of a good area and a good school system.

It appears the county population has been declining somewhat over the past several years:

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fairfaxcountyvirginia

There’s no question that the enrollment in FCPS has been declining.

It’s not the first time the student enrollment has declined, but in the past when enrollment declined FCPS consolidated facilities and kept the ones in operation in good shape (and built new schools in the areas that were growing). I’m not sure they care much now if kids attend schools with crappy facilities. I know there has been some talk about coming up with a new school renovation queue but there seems to be very little sense of urgency.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:First of all Carmel is a pretty wealthy and desirable suburb of Indianapolis. Definitely not some random small Midwestern city. But yes - when you have a pretty well off area and you aren’t making the schools do double/triple/quadruple duty as health care providers, food banks, social services, places to learn English, etc. the schools can concentrate on just education and making it a pleasant environment for students.

That HS also has north of 5000 students, so by packing everyone in the suburb into one MASSIVE high school they do save some money on facilities and are then able to have a lot of cool extras. But I’m not sure if I’d want to go to a high school the size of an average liberal arts college. Carmel is geographically a pretty large suburb as well so some of those kids will have quite a bus ride. Don’t get me wrong that school looks awesome but there are always trade offs.

Good insight. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I came from a school district with relatively new school buildings. I appreciate that FCPS has a few new buildings, lots of older buildings, and has a renovation cycle rather than abandoning old school buildings, converting them to something else, selling them or tearing them down and rebuilding. There is continuity and conservation. There is some population growth rather than decline. These are generally markers of a good area and a good school system.

It appears the county population has been declining somewhat over the past several years:

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fairfaxcountyvirginia

There’s no question that the enrollment in FCPS has been declining.

It’s not the first time the student enrollment has declined, but in the past when enrollment declined FCPS consolidated facilities and kept the ones in operation in good shape (and built new schools in the areas that were growing). I’m not sure they care much now if kids attend schools with crappy facilities. I know there has been some talk about coming up with a new school renovation queue but there seems to be very little sense of urgency.

We'll all find out of the pandemic has caused a permanent change. Or not.

APS, for example, has been hoping for population decline for years and they're thrilled right now. If DC remains gutted, then FCPS may continue to decline. Or maybe not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone seen the video of the facilities at Carmel HS that is making the rounds?

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/local/hamilton-county/carmel/2023/02/13/carmel-high-school-students-tiktok-videos-natatorium-stadium-auditorium-studios-auto-shop/69899563007/

I know that what happens inside a building is more important than the building itself but the disparities between the facilities at that school and some of the run-down facilities in FCPS really make me feel guilty for living in a school district like FCPS that spends so much time on abstract discussions about “equity” yet pays so little attention to the condition of its facilities that trailers and cheap modulars are now just taken for granted.

Shame on Fairfax County and shame on FCPS! For a supposedly wealthy county, we don’t even come close to a random suburb of a mid-sized city in the Midwest when it comes to providing for our kids.

I mean, I don't know the situation but I assume local taxes fund schools and the rich people have arranged the districts in such a way that they can channel all their tax dollars into their beautiful facility while schools in nearby poorer districts fall to pieces. It's not a good thing

Right - there are lots of areas where services are delivered at a less aggregated level than Fairfax, where you have a single, large county-wide system. And there are pros and cons with different approaches. We see it locally when people talk about the advantages of Falls Church City schools vs FCPS.

But if nothing else the facilities at Carmel HS - even if it’s a very big school - are way nicer than those at really any high school in FCPS (not just the super run-down old schools like Annandale, Lewis, and McLean) and ought to make some think twice before they disparage “flyover country” the next time. Looks like flyover country, or at least parts of it, compare very favorably to our stagnant if not declining county.

[Anonymous]

Have you considered that facilities are a facet of equity? I'm guessing you're at one of the pyramids that are great academically but behind in facilities, like McLean or Chantilly. Maybe you're jealous of Madison, Oakton, and WSHS that have state-of-the-art facilities but are high SES. "Equity" is certainly not the culprit for those schools being renovated. You can blame the Board and former facilities manager Platenberg. So how exactly is equity hurting you? I don't see Lewis and Mt Vernon getting unnecessary brand new labs and classrooms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone seen the video of the facilities at Carmel HS that is making the rounds?

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/local/hamilton-county/carmel/2023/02/13/carmel-high-school-students-tiktok-videos-natatorium-stadium-auditorium-studios-auto-shop/69899563007/

I know that what happens inside a building is more important than the building itself but the disparities between the facilities at that school and some of the run-down facilities in FCPS really make me feel guilty for living in a school district like FCPS that spends so much time on abstract discussions about “equity” yet pays so little attention to the condition of its facilities that trailers and cheap modulars are now just taken for granted.

Shame on Fairfax County and shame on FCPS! For a supposedly wealthy county, we don’t even come close to a random suburb of a mid-sized city in the Midwest when it comes to providing for our kids.

I mean, I don't know the situation but I assume local taxes fund schools and the rich people have arranged the districts in such a way that they can channel all their tax dollars into their beautiful facility while schools in nearby poorer districts fall to pieces. It's not a good thing

This. Lots of districts lines are drawn so that the nice schools are incredibly nice and the poor schools are substandard at best.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone seen the video of the facilities at Carmel HS that is making the rounds?

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/local/hamilton-county/carmel/2023/02/13/carmel-high-school-students-tiktok-videos-natatorium-stadium-auditorium-studios-auto-shop/69899563007/

I know that what happens inside a building is more important than the building itself but the disparities between the facilities at that school and some of the run-down facilities in FCPS really make me feel guilty for living in a school district like FCPS that spends so much time on abstract discussions about “equity” yet pays so little attention to the condition of its facilities that trailers and cheap modulars are now just taken for granted.

Shame on Fairfax County and shame on FCPS! For a supposedly wealthy county, we don’t even come close to a random suburb of a mid-sized city in the Midwest when it comes to providing for our kids.

Can you not comprehend that land is more expensive and more scared in VA than in Indiana? Maybe you should go back to school. Also, I'd bet dollars to donuts, facilities aside, FCPS kids score higher than those kids in Indiana. But sure, let's focus on the building.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone seen the video of the facilities at Carmel HS that is making the rounds?

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/local/hamilton-county/carmel/2023/02/13/carmel-high-school-students-tiktok-videos-natatorium-stadium-auditorium-studios-auto-shop/69899563007/

I know that what happens inside a building is more important than the building itself but the disparities between the facilities at that school and some of the run-down facilities in FCPS really make me feel guilty for living in a school district like FCPS that spends so much time on abstract discussions about “equity” yet pays so little attention to the condition of its facilities that trailers and cheap modulars are now just taken for granted.

Shame on Fairfax County and shame on FCPS! For a supposedly wealthy county, we don’t even come close to a random suburb of a mid-sized city in the Midwest when it comes to providing for our kids.

Can you not comprehend that land is more expensive and more scared in VA than in Indiana? Maybe you should go back to school. Also, I'd bet dollars to donuts, facilities aside, FCPS kids score higher than those kids in Indiana. But sure, let's focus on the building.

^ scarce NOT scared.