Hospice

[Anonymous]

My aunt is about to enter hospice care. Without nutrition or liquids what should we expect? Just a few days I assume? She is being treated for an infection but that will stop as well.

[Anonymous]

Sorry you are going through this. Do you mean it is clear that your aunt will not eat or drink on her own again?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry you are going through this. Do you mean it is clear that your aunt will not eat or drink on her own again?

Yes she has failed a swallow test and is not permitted liquids or food.

[Anonymous]

I'm sorry OP. With both my parents, once they stopped eating and drinking the end came within a week. Hospice provided morphine that kept the pain manageable. The nurses also taught us to use a swab dipped in water to moisturize their lips from time to time to release dryness.

[Anonymous]

My dad lingered a bit longer but it was within 10 days or so. My dad failed the swallow test too and chose to go into hospice. I'm sorry you are going through this.

[Anonymous]

She is too confused and not responsive enough to make the choice so her spouse did. Terrible thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry you are going through this. Do you mean it is clear that your aunt will not eat or drink on her own again?

Yes she has failed a swallow test and is not permitted liquids or food.

Let me get this straight: she failed a swallow test, so to prevent aspiration they want her to consume nothing by mouth, but it’s OK to starve/dehydrate her to death as long as they pump her full of narcotics.

That’s not “death with dignity.” It’s active killing.

And the idea that a person near the end of life should not get treatment for an infection (which has a palliative effect in addition to being potentially curative) borders on sadistic.

Hospice used to be a good idea when it was in the nature of a social movement. Now it’s a business and a pretty macabre one at that.

[Anonymous]

Adding: artificial hydration/nutrition via feeding tube is not an extraordinary measure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry you are going through this. Do you mean it is clear that your aunt will not eat or drink on her own again?

Yes she has failed a swallow test and is not permitted liquids or food.

Let me get this straight: she failed a swallow test, so to prevent aspiration they want her to consume nothing by mouth, but it’s OK to starve/dehydrate her to death as long as they pump her full of narcotics.

That’s not “death with dignity.” It’s active killing.

And the idea that a person near the end of life should not get treatment for an infection (which has a palliative effect in addition to being potentially curative) borders on sadistic.

Hospice used to be a good idea when it was in the nature of a social movement. Now it’s a business and a pretty macabre one at that.

Why do you assume that parenteral nutrition (via IV) or a feeding tube will alleviate suffering rather than prolong it? It sounds like OP's aunt is actively dying, and feeding her won't prevent it. Antibiotics will also prolong dying but not prevent it. There's a reason pneumonia is called the old person's friend -- sometimes it's better to go quickly when the body is breaking down anyway. Withholding treatment measures when they won't do anything except delay the inevitable is not "actively killing" someone. The underlying disease is doing the killing. The dying person will die of the cancer, not because of having artificial feeding withheld.

OP, I'm so sorry for you and your family.

[Anonymous]

Its impossible to say. My MIL lingered maybe a week to 10 days. Best wishes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry you are going through this. Do you mean it is clear that your aunt will not eat or drink on her own again?

Yes she has failed a swallow test and is not permitted liquids or food.

Let me get this straight: she failed a swallow test, so to prevent aspiration they want her to consume nothing by mouth, but it’s OK to starve/dehydrate her to death as long as they pump her full of narcotics.

That’s not “death with dignity.” It’s active killing.

And the idea that a person near the end of life should not get treatment for an infection (which has a palliative effect in addition to being potentially curative) borders on sadistic.

Hospice used to be a good idea when it was in the nature of a social movement. Now it’s a business and a pretty macabre one at that.

Believe me this is very difficult . The infections (multiple) are not considered curable without surgery which she is not strong enough for. Even beyond the infections she has
a progressive incurable disease and dementia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry you are going through this. Do you mean it is clear that your aunt will not eat or drink on her own again?

Yes she has failed a swallow test and is not permitted liquids or food.

Let me get this straight: she failed a swallow test, so to prevent aspiration they want her to consume nothing by mouth, but it’s OK to starve/dehydrate her to death as long as they pump her full of narcotics.

That’s not “death with dignity.” It’s active killing.

And the idea that a person near the end of life should not get treatment for an infection (which has a palliative effect in addition to being potentially curative) borders on sadistic.

Hospice used to be a good idea when it was in the nature of a social movement. Now it’s a business and a pretty macabre one at that.

Op please please do not listen to this person who clearly does not have medical knowledge of this or how hospice works. It is very normal for people not to eat and drink at the end of life, their body is shutting down and often does not need/want/feel hunger and thirst the way we do.

[Anonymous]

Sounds like kind decision to let her go with supportive comfort care, rather than prolong the dying process. Intervening with life prolonging decisions is not always kind nor helpful; is difficult decision. When illness is part of natural dying/end of life prolonging the dying process is not helpful or kind. Usually people just sort of sleep away their last days, can have some pain meds/sedation if needed for comfort. There is no stopwatch; everyone is different. If not taking in fluids, would think 4-5 day range but some people linger longer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry you are going through this. Do you mean it is clear that your aunt will not eat or drink on her own again?

Yes she has failed a swallow test and is not permitted liquids or food.

Let me get this straight: she failed a swallow test, so to prevent aspiration they want her to consume nothing by mouth, but it’s OK to starve/dehydrate her to death as long as they pump her full of narcotics.

That’s not “death with dignity.” It’s active killing.

And the idea that a person near the end of life should not get treatment for an infection (which has a palliative effect in addition to being potentially curative) borders on sadistic.

Hospice used to be a good idea when it was in the nature of a social movement. Now it’s a business and a pretty macabre one at that.

Op please please do not listen to this person who clearly does not have medical knowledge of this or how hospice works. It is very normal for people not to eat and drink at the end of life, their body is shutting down and often does not need/want/feel hunger and thirst the way we do.

The relevant post indicated that hydration/nutrition were to be actively denied, not merely skipped by the patient due to lack of interest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry you are going through this. Do you mean it is clear that your aunt will not eat or drink on her own again?

Yes she has failed a swallow test and is not permitted liquids or food.

Let me get this straight: she failed a swallow test, so to prevent aspiration they want her to consume nothing by mouth, but it’s OK to starve/dehydrate her to death as long as they pump her full of narcotics.

That’s not “death with dignity.” It’s active killing.

And the idea that a person near the end of life should not get treatment for an infection (which has a palliative effect in addition to being potentially curative) borders on sadistic.

Hospice used to be a good idea when it was in the nature of a social movement. Now it’s a business and a pretty macabre one at that.

Believe me this is very difficult . The infections (multiple) are not considered curable without surgery which she is not strong enough for. Even beyond the infections she has
a progressive incurable disease and dementia.

I empathize and I understand the difficulty, having been down a similar road. The point about antibiotics is that the bad hospices sometimes withhold them automatically. That is a disservice to the patient. Sometimes even antibiotics that are not going to cure infections can reduce how lousy the infection makes the person feel. That may or may not be the case for your person, but it deserves consideration. Denying even artificial hydration/nutrition in favor of medically induced insensibility is a separate issue. It is one thing for a patient or their surrogate to make a considered decision about this, weighing all the alternatives. It is quite another for a single swallow test to doom a person.

The value of a human life transcends even the individual patient. Too often, the temptation is to put the patient out of “our” misery, not theirs. I’m not suggesting that this is your motive. I do question whether you are getting the best medical and spiritual advice.