Disappointing - meetings must be in person this year

[Anonymous]

Our lovely legislature passed a law now requiring all public meetings to again be in person, with a limit to the number of people who can attend online and a limit to how many times each person can attend online. Regardless of feelings about Covid and risk, this upsets me if it applies to things like PTAs or even a Teams option for things like BTSN. We've been at 2 schools since Covid and attendance has gone way up since people could attend by Teams and listen in. I can understand this if it's talking about forums such as the legislature or county or school boards, but it appears to devolve down to lower levels including advisory boards and possibly even to the school level.

It seems as if it throws the baby out with the bathwater by not acknowledging some of the good to come out of the ability to stream or do business online.

https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title2.2/chapter37/section2.2-3708.2/

[Anonymous]

Why/how would this apply to Virginia PTAs?

[Anonymous]

Middle school back to school night is during practice time for many sports. It was awesome the past couple years when I could logon from the parking lot or home in between carpooling. How do we get the information if we don’t go? Are there PowerPoint or something?

[Anonymous]

I see both sides.

Large attendance online meetings and school events are not ideal for virtual and neither are issues or topics where you're trying to have a thoughtful and dynamic conversation among a lot of people. It can be done but it's hard. There is zero accountability to show even basic decency of engaging and paying attention and a whole bunch of people half listen with their cameras turned off. It's just so flat compared to an in-person experience where people are forced to engage and behave respectfully and "show up". It's also not fun to be the presenter speaking into the void or trying to facilitate a conversation during one of these large group setups. I've done it a bunch. But definitely a lot more convenient.

If you can get critical mass to return voluntarily (or I guess force them to return), then there is a tipping point where the overall quality of the conversation and presentation goes up for everybody.

And doing the events hybrid well is also fairly challenging for the people who have to plan the logistics. From having done these hybrid events, the online people are often checked out and don't participate at the same level as people in person. Which is pretty normal. Different energy in the room with the live humans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Middle school back to school night is during practice time for many sports. It was awesome the past couple years when I could logon from the parking lot or home in between carpooling. How do we get the information if we don’t go? Are there PowerPoint or something?

In the "before times" yes, slides would be shared after the fact. Assume it would be the same now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I see both sides.

Large attendance online meetings and school events are not ideal for virtual and neither are issues or topics where you're trying to have a thoughtful and dynamic conversation among a lot of people. It can be done but it's hard. There is zero accountability to show even basic decency of engaging and paying attention and a whole bunch of people half listen with their cameras turned off. It's just so flat compared to an in-person experience where people are forced to engage and behave respectfully and "show up". It's also not fun to be the presenter speaking into the void or trying to facilitate a conversation during one of these large group setups. I've done it a bunch. But definitely a lot more convenient.

If you can get critical mass to return voluntarily (or I guess force them to return), then there is a tipping point where the overall quality of the conversation and presentation goes up for everybody.

And doing the events hybrid well is also fairly challenging for the people who have to plan the logistics. From having done these hybrid events, the online people are often checked out and don't participate at the same level as people in person. Which is pretty normal. Different energy in the room with the live humans.

That may all be true. Nonetheless, greater participation is a plus.
It seems ridiculous to limit the # of times an individual can participate via zoom. I think many people participating virtually are less likely to be more vocal or engaged in person anyway. The zoom option at least loops people in who otherwise would never loop in or engage. The more people aware of discussions and what's going on in their school or community, the better - they'll engage when they find something important enough, or maybe they'll step up for a small volunteer role they otherwise never would have considered doing.

Everyone in-person isn't always particularly engaged or contributory to discussions. I think it's the right move to require in-person meetings again; but it's just part of the typical conservative type efforts to diminish participation by a wider and more diverse group. Think about it: who is more likely to attend in-person PTA or Board meetings, and who is more likely to take the log-in option?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see both sides.

Large attendance online meetings and school events are not ideal for virtual and neither are issues or topics where you're trying to have a thoughtful and dynamic conversation among a lot of people. It can be done but it's hard. There is zero accountability to show even basic decency of engaging and paying attention and a whole bunch of people half listen with their cameras turned off. It's just so flat compared to an in-person experience where people are forced to engage and behave respectfully and "show up". It's also not fun to be the presenter speaking into the void or trying to facilitate a conversation during one of these large group setups. I've done it a bunch. But definitely a lot more convenient.

If you can get critical mass to return voluntarily (or I guess force them to return), then there is a tipping point where the overall quality of the conversation and presentation goes up for everybody.

And doing the events hybrid well is also fairly challenging for the people who have to plan the logistics. From having done these hybrid events, the online people are often checked out and don't participate at the same level as people in person. Which is pretty normal. Different energy in the room with the live humans.

That may all be true. Nonetheless, greater participation is a plus.
It seems ridiculous to limit the # of times an individual can participate via zoom. I think many people participating virtually are less likely to be more vocal or engaged in person anyway. The zoom option at least loops people in who otherwise would never loop in or engage. The more people aware of discussions and what's going on in their school or community, the better - they'll engage when they find something important enough, or maybe they'll step up for a small volunteer role they otherwise never would have considered doing.

Everyone in-person isn't always particularly engaged or contributory to discussions. I think it's the right move to require in-person meetings again; but it's just part of the typical conservative type efforts to diminish participation by a wider and more diverse group. Think about it: who is more likely to attend in-person PTA or Board meetings, and who is more likely to take the log-in option?

Yes, I know the equity talking points and think they are very valid. I've said them myself to many people. I am the PP you are responding to.

My thoughts still stand. The online large group meetings are pretty terrible. And if you give people the option to stay home, too many will and you never gain back critical mass.

I don't have great answers.

[Anonymous]

Unless I'm missing something, the law does NOT limit how many members of the public can attend virtually. It requires members of a public body (eg school board members) to be present in person. I think this is ok.

My only concern is that for really small, hyper-local public bodies, serving as a member actually is a pretty big committment, generally as a volunteer when you have a day job. In those cases, allowing the meetings to be virtual probably expands the number and type of people willing to serve as members.

But for school board, etc? Yeah, I'm ok with this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why/how would this apply to Virginia PTAs?

The law appears to apply to public bodies. I don't think that includes PTAs. In DC there's something called an "LSAT" that is established in law and includes teachers, parents, and community members. That type of school meeting might be covered if there is a Virginia equivalent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why/how would this apply to Virginia PTAs?

The law appears to apply to public bodies. I don't think that includes PTAs. In DC there's something called an "LSAT" that is established in law and includes teachers, parents, and community members. That type of school meeting might be covered if there is a Virginia equivalent.

Probably does apply to PTA meetings bc PTA meetings are open to the public. If you want to attend a PTA meeting at any school you could. I attended one for the elementary school my child was going to attend before they attended. It was a good way to get a feel for the school.

[Anonymous]

Our private school is having in-person BTSN and I'm really disappointed, it was a zoo every year for the teachers to give a 10-min commentary, no time for questions and then the cattle call to go to the next room. Virtual was so much easier.

[Anonymous]

The law you linked to says that starting 9/1/22, if there is a state of emergency, that public bodies can meet online. I don’t know what you are looking at.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why/how would this apply to Virginia PTAs?

The law appears to apply to public bodies. I don't think that includes PTAs. In DC there's something called an "LSAT" that is established in law and includes teachers, parents, and community members. That type of school meeting might be covered if there is a Virginia equivalent.

Probably does apply to PTA meetings bc PTA meetings are open to the public. If you want to attend a PTA meeting at any school you could. I attended one for the elementary school my child was going to attend before they attended. It was a good way to get a feel for the school.

PTAs in most states are private, non-profit organizations. Some states may have some hybrid parent-teacher organization but assuming a PTA is incorporated as a non-profit organization under state law, they are private and not subject to state law on public meetings. The by-laws may require that meetings be open to all members of the community and that there be notice of the meetings, but their governance and how they run their meetings and operations is a private concern. An advisory board to the school board or city council would be considered an extension or instrumentality of a public entity and as such, would probably be subject to state law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Unless I'm missing something, the law does NOT limit how many members of the public can attend virtually. It requires members of a public body (eg school board members) to be present in person. I think this is ok.

My only concern is that for really small, hyper-local public bodies, serving as a member actually is a pretty big committment, generally as a volunteer when you have a day job. In those cases, allowing the meetings to be virtual probably expands the number and type of people willing to serve as members.

But for school board, etc? Yeah, I'm ok with this.

I think the members of the committee or board or commission or whatever SHOULD be in in-person. I'd allow exceptions for out-of-town travel or some illnesses. As noted in others' comments, in-person discussion is far more effective and therefore the people on the committee should be maximizing participation and effectiveness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our private school is having in-person BTSN and I'm really disappointed, it was a zoo every year for the teachers to give a 10-min commentary, no time for questions and then the cattle call to go to the next room. Virtual was so much easier.

I'd rather be herded like cattle than unable to log-in to the virtual meetings, have links to the wrong meetings, and all the other annoying aspects of virtual events.