dinners- do I expect too much? (Older kids mainly)

[Anonymous]

I have 4 kids (10, 8, 5, 1) and dinners are causing me great angst.
My 10 yo is ready for a real dinner most nights- he is very athletic, and gets bummed when its pasta.
So I am trying to cook things that I know the majority likes (with something for the minority rice, mac and cheese, tofu hot dogs etc).
But I am finding that I will spend a lot of time cooking and there are 2 main problems:
1. I cannot get a cohesive group to help clear the table/set the table/ get water without literally screaming
2. usually the middle 2 won't eat what I make- and this drives me wacko when it is something that they liked last week
3. The 8 yo (and 5 yo) continue to snack even when I tell them no more, and am fixing dinner for serving within the next 20 minutes.
"Just one granola bar, pleeease?" "I just want a glass of milk" etc...
4. They clear their places (with prompting) but never do the dishes. And when I ask them to, it basically turns into such a pissing match between them as to who has to do it that I just do it and am then furious. This is an ongoing problem with any kind of cleaning up-- they have figured out how to make it so hideaous that I would rather do it than have to listen to them alpha dog.
5. I never want to cook for them again, and I would not, except that the baby is a good eater, and the 10 yo is too. The middle 2 are not and they 8 yo insists on reading throughout dinner, again if I draw a line, it turns so ugly its not worth it.
I honestly just want to cook for the 3 of us (me, baby, 10 yo) and let the others figure it out. I have asked them for dinner ideas and work from that, but after I make it once, they don't want it again--
It doesn't help that my husband has been working through dinner/bedtime all week.

I have made chore charts, we have come up with lists of what we all need to do to make the family run, and my 10 yo is the only one who makes an effort. Am I out of line in expectations from my 8 and 5 year old. I feel like our house is so out of control. I cant stand it!

[Anonymous]

What are sexes of these so wonderful children?

[Anonymous]

The oldest 3 are boys and the baby is a girl.

[Anonymous]

OP here- They ARE wonderful- each individually. Its the male-male interactions that are really bugging me, and to be honest, the 8 yo, whom we adore, puts us through it. hes an angel at school, a great student, nice to others, but man, he has a dark side which can poison the whole house. But that said, he is making great strides and getting so much easier in general. But his moods dictate too much for the rest of us.

[Anonymous]

Me again - 20:19. Here is what I did with my three (3) because they were making me crazy and my husband traveled alot.

I posted the menu for the week on the fridge every Sunday. (actually was good for me too).

Everyone knew what was coming and they could complain, groan, whatever. At least they knew.

My youngest is the one that poisons the house. He can start arguments at the dinner table that escalate from bickering to where I just want to scream - (never happens when my husband is home).

I started something new two weeks ago. Try it - i keep score at the table. (I am the timekeeper for lacrosse as well). i score behavior and award points in discussions, manners, etc. It keeps me sane and for some reason, it is entertaining.

I don't have the nerve to do it so that they clear the table yet, but i'm keeping it in my back pocket in case of a tie.

[Anonymous]

Wow.

Well, all but the baby (who has no vote here) are old enough to go to bed hungry.

I don't have much advice beyond the following:

Don't feel guilty if you scream at the whole lot of them every so often. As long as you don't actually stab the complainers with a kitchen knife, I think you are doing great!

[Anonymous]

OP, I can relate, but I don't think your expectations are too high. I have 9 and 5 year old boys. For a variety of reasons, we had been making two dinners and one adults. But not too long ago, the reasons for this no longer existed and I started doing one meal. Around the same time, I realized that the dinner table behavior drove me crazy. So, basically, I made a mental list of what was driving me nuts and I picked a point to start the behavior changes I wanted and then did it. It was a time when work wasn't stressful and I wasn't PMSing. I had a glass of wine with dinner to mellow me out. But, most importantly, I stuck to what I said. No snacks before dinner. They set the table with prompting - which they always did so this wasn't a change. Everyone eats the same food. Dinner manners require that everyone sit up straight at the table with legs under the table - lots of prompting, but now just a brief reminder as opposed to gently physically repositioning them. No wiping faces on the shirt - you have to use napkins. After dinner, all dishes have to be carried and stacked by the dishwasher, which I load because no one can make me happy with that. If you don't eat, you don't get evening snacks, which works wonders. Once they realized I was serious, they stopped whining about the dinner menu and now just eat or eat with just a few seconds of whining. I would say that it took a few days to see changes and by the end of about two weeks I was happy with dinner behavior. There are still things that aren't perfect. They don't always eat fast enough - they like to talk too much - so sometimes I still have moments where they drive me crazy. But, that I think is normal so I don't even hope to change that.

Anyway, you are on a great start. You know what is driving you crazy. Now you just have to get a strategy to change it and then get the energy to start and follow it through. One suggestion is this. Don't start until you are ready to see it through. Otherwise you will have the issue of your credibility to deal with on top of changing the behavior.

Whenever I get discouraged, I keep thinking that I want to be the family on the KFC commercial where the kids find out that the dad played in a band and the mom was a groupie - the KFC is optional and actually not likely. They are all sitting at the table, enjoying food, eating and having some really fun conversation. Right now, I think my kids think we have fun dinner conversation even if I feel like all I do is say "eat", "close your mouth to chew", "don't talk with food in your mouth", "use your napkin", "put all four legs of that chair on the floor", etc. So, I feel like I'm on a good start to my goal.

Good luck

[Anonymous]

I catch myself saying the same thing my mother said "You get what you get, and be glad." My children are 3 and 4, and they know if they don't eat their dinner, they don't get anything until breakfast. They both have tested that statement, and learned the hard way, and a gentle reminders when they don't want what I have prepared, usually results in their eating.

I also make them ask to be excused, and while the three year old doesn't do dishes, he still clears his place. The four year old will load the dishwasher, with help. For us the thing that really worked, was my not backing down. My DH was gone for six months, and if I wasn't consistent, we wouldn't have survived that time.

[Anonymous]

I'm a teacher - so I would approach this problem like a "class" - for example, each of your 3 older children could earn points for certain behaviors. So you would list the things that you expect from them. Example: set the table, sit in chair correctly, no whining, use a napkin, place dishes in the sink, wash/dry dishes etc... Then I would give points throughout the dinner whenever they are doing something correctly. So if one child was eating nicely - while the others were arguing, I'd say, "I really like how Adam is eating so nicely using a fork and knife. He just earned a point!" This works wonders - rather than yelling at the other 2, they will immediately calm down because they also want the praise and the points.

At the end of dinner the one with the most points won't have to wash dishes. Or you could say that the one with the most points at the end of the week gets to choose what the family will have for dinner on Friday.

I know it's hard to be consistent and strict - but you have to be otherwise your kids will run the house instead of you. If you say to Adam, wash the dishes. John, dry the dishes. Mark, clear the table. They need to do it without complaining. If one kid starts whining I make my kids sit back down at the dinner table and we put the dishes back on the table and start all over. The first few nights clean-up from dinner might take an hour or more. But I PROMISE once they realize you won't back down it'll get done fast and easy. The key is - DON'T give in, no matter what. Otherwise you're just teaching them that arguing, complaining, and whining means they get their way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow.

Well, all but the baby (who has no vote here) are old enough to go to bed hungry.

I don't have much advice beyond the following:

Don't feel guilty if you scream at the whole lot of them every so often. As long as you don't actually stab the complainers with a kitchen knife, I think you are doing great!

I agree. If they will not love you, let them fear you.

Seriously, make sure you follow up on every threat you make. They will keep trying to test your boundaries and you need to be firm and make clear that you mean business.

[Anonymous]

OP here- Thanks so much- after I wrote this, I was worried I outed my family and our out of controlness- but I feel better seeing that we are not so out of the range. I showed my husband these responses and I think next week, when he is back home for dinners, we will need to make behaviour a priority. When our oldest was 4 we worked with The Sleep lady and by making a concerted, united effort to be consistent, we had 4 years of bad sleep habits fixed and had him sleeping in his own bed happily. I think thats what is happening here. We just need to be serious. I am so exhausted that I am taking the road of least resistance (snacks, alternate dinners, reading at the table, doing the clean up myself etc) which is allowing negative behaviour to spiral.
Thanks for your words of encouragement, and your ideas.

[Anonymous]

UPDATE- the points worked so well! I told the boys this is the deal- these are the expectations (you will help set the table, you will not read at the table, I don't want to hear what you do not like about dinner, you'll clear the table, boy a will do the glasses in the dishwasher boy b will do the plates boy c will do the silverware etc). I told them they'd get points for positive behaviour (what to do with the points will be decided upon tomorrow with me and dad).
Well, dinner was GREAT! they all stepped up, I did not yell, I did not clean up, and the middle 2 are so pumped about the points that we need to figure out what to do to make them mean something.
THANK YOU!